George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 1

[MsBetsy]

Derek Chauvin used force against suspects before George Floyd. The jury won't hear about 6 of those incidents.

Though police department records show 18 complaints filed against Chauvin over the course of his 19-year career with Minneapolis police, just one will be introduced at trial.

Thanks, for some reason I thought there were 22 complaints. Still, 18 incidents using excessive force is too many times. It's unfortunate the Union was able to shield officers from being disciplined for so long.

According to the article, in 2014 Chauvin placed his body weight on the neck and head of a man, putting pressure on his lingual artery.

In 2016 he put his hands around a man's neck and applied pressure to both sides. The man complained of asthma and needed medical attention.

In 2017, he restrained a fourteen year old boy, applied a neck restraint and rolled him on his stomach.

In 2019, he sprayed mace in a man's face, applied a neck restraint, and sat on the man's back.

This seems to be his "go to" method for restraining people. I recall the manager at the nightclub saying she thought Chauvin was quick to anger, and often used excessive force when she thought it was unwarranted. (Especially on African American nights) He was also quick to pull out his pepper spray.

I wonder why officers were never taught of the dangers of prolonged pressure on the neck or back. That along with the mace would make it difficult for anyone to breathe.

Imo

 

[sds71]

Revelations about Chauvin's history and his conduct on the day Floyd died have drawn further scrutiny of his training role even though his superiors were aware of his at-times questionable decision making.


https://www.startribune.com/chauvin-trial-again-casts-spotlight-on-mpd-s-training-program/600041955/

 

[Marysmith]

A document from the civil suit ties in with your opinion. IMO I don’t consider it a defense for Chauvin’s actions.
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/floyd-family.pdf
Note pages 19-20 #145-152

It references MPD Lieutenant and agent of the City of Minneapolis Bob Kroll- who has served as the president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis since 2015 and has sat on its board since 1996 as a promoter of these attitudes.

-Up and until 2019, the City of Minneapolis permitted officers to receive “Killology” or “warrior style” training, which teaches officers to consider every person and every situation as a potential deadly threat and to kill “less hesitantly.”


-Kroll has further encouraged officers to behave aggressively, stating that MPD officers who do not receive citizen complaints are “low-level slugs” who “[don’t] get out and investigate anything. And that’s not what we’re paying our officers to do.” Kroll has stated that policing should be viewed like “a basketball game, in that if you’re not getting any fouls, you aren’t playing hard enough.”

-In addition, Kroll expressed the opinion that if a suspect could talk in the prone position, he could breathe. This was said to Floyd. It is an accepted scientific fact that the ability to speak does not imply that someone is getting sufficient air to survive. (Page 19 #143)

WOW. I don’t consider it a defense either but this is shocking - the language and everything. IMO, it’s common sense for an adult to know that what was done to GF could have deadly consequences.

 

[mom2chloe]

A document from the civil suit ties in with your opinion. IMO I don’t consider it a defense for Chauvin’s actions.
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/floyd-family.pdf
Note pages 19-20 #145-152

It references MPD Lieutenant and agent of the City of Minneapolis Bob Kroll- who has served as the president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis since 2015 and has sat on its board since 1996 as a promoter of these attitudes.

-Up and until 2019, the City of Minneapolis permitted officers to receive “Killology” or “warrior style” training, which teaches officers to consider every person and every situation as a potential deadly threat and to kill “less hesitantly.”


-Kroll has further encouraged officers to behave aggressively, stating that MPD officers who do not receive citizen complaints are “low-level slugs” who “[don’t] get out and investigate anything. And that’s not what we’re paying our officers to do.” Kroll has stated that policing should be viewed like “a basketball game, in that if you’re not getting any fouls, you aren’t playing hard enough.”

-In addition, Kroll expressed the opinion that if a suspect could talk in the prone position, he could breathe. This was said to Floyd. It is an accepted scientific fact that the ability to speak does not imply that someone is getting sufficient air to survive. (Page 19 #143)

I appreciate this so much! Thank you and it’s certainly food for thought!

 

[mickey2942]

Thanks, for some reason I thought there were 22 complaints. Still, 18 incidents using excessive force is too many times. It's unfortunate the Union was able to shield officers from being disciplined for so long.

According to the article, in 2014 Chauvin placed his body weight on the neck and head of a man, putting pressure on his lingual artery.

In 2016 he put his hands around a man's neck and applied pressure to both sides. The man complained of asthma and needed medical attention.

In 2017, he restrained a fourteen year old boy, applied a neck restraint and rolled him on his stomach.

In 2019, he sprayed mace in a man's face, applied a neck restraint, and sat on the man's back.

This seems to be his "go to" method for restraining people. I recall the manager at the nightclub saying she thought Chauvin was quick to anger, and often used excessive force when she thought it was unwarranted. (Especially on African American nights) He was also quick to pull out his pepper spray.

I wonder why officers were never taught of the dangers of prolonged pressure on the neck or back. That along with the mace would make it difficult for anyone to breathe.

Imo

George Floyd and Derek Chauvin worked at same club and may have crossed paths, owner says

And yet, the manager of the nightclub Chauvin worked at, never discharged Chauvin for being "quick to anger" or "using excessive force" (especially on African Americans).

I am pretty sure that Chauvin had met GF before this incident. Working at the same place. Even if you work different shifts, there are usually meetings or parties to get to meet everyone on staff.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don’t find it odd that he had 18 complaints over 19 years. Maybe that’s just me but I think even an exemplar cop would have complaints lodged regardless. IMO

Yes, an article I read yesterday said that is true. However, it would be more common for an officer to have 6 or 7 complaints during their career, not the amount of complaints that Chauvin had. Will look for the link again.


ETA: This is not the article that I read, but it states similar ....

Bowling Green State University criminologist Phil Stinson, who has collected data on thousands of police charged, investigated or convicted of crimes, said that most officers go through their careers with few complaints against them, and that generally a small percentage of officers account for an outsize share of complaints.
Police Disciplinary Records Are Largely Kept Secret in US

 

[MsBetsy]

George Floyd and Derek Chauvin worked at same club and may have crossed paths, owner says

And yet, the manager of the nightclub Chauvin worked at, never discharged Chauvin for being "quick to anger" or "using excessive force" (especially on African Americans).

I am pretty sure that Chauvin had met GF before this incident. Working at the same place. Even if you work different shifts, there are usually meetings or parties to get to meet everyone on staff.

Yeah, I remember discussing the possibility that they knew each other or at least that Chauvin recognized Floyd. I don't think it's ever been confirmed, though. I wonder if it will be brought up in court.

 

[Gibbo214]

Yeah, I remember discussing the possibility that they knew each other or at least that Chauvin recognized Floyd. I don't think it's ever been confirmed, though. I wonder if it will be brought up in court.

im
IMO, Floyd would be quite recognisable.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yeah, I remember discussing the possibility that they knew each other or at least that Chauvin recognized Floyd. I don't think it's ever been confirmed, though. I wonder if it will be brought up in court.

George Floyd and Derek Chauvin knew each other from work | Daily Mail Online

• A Minneapolis club owner has revealed that Chauvin and Floyd worked for her
• The two men worked as security guards at the El Nuevo Rodeo club last year
• Maya Santamaria said Chauvin worked as off-duty officer at club for 17 years

 

[MsBetsy]

im
IMO, Floyd would be quite recognisable.

I just checked the witness list and the night club owner (Santamaria) is on the states list. I'm interested in what she will say if she's called to testify.

 

[MsBetsy]

George Floyd and Derek Chauvin knew each other from work | Daily Mail Online

• A Minneapolis club owner has revealed that Chauvin and Floyd worked for her
• The two men worked as security guards at the El Nuevo Rodeo club last year
• Maya Santamaria said Chauvin worked as off-duty officer at club for 17 years

Thanks! I thought I remember something about her first saying they didn't know each other. Or maybe it was initially reported that they didn't know each other, and she claimed they did. I thought she recanted the story that they had "beef "at work, or the man who initially said that was thinking of someone else and mistook him for Floyd. Imo

 

[missy1974]

Thanks, for some reason I thought there were 22 complaints. Still, 18 incidents using excessive force is too many times. It's unfortunate the Union was able to shield officers from being disciplined for so long.

According to the article, in 2014 Chauvin placed his body weight on the neck and head of a man, putting pressure on his lingual artery.

In 2016 he put his hands around a man's neck and applied pressure to both sides. The man complained of asthma and needed medical attention.

In 2017, he restrained a fourteen year old boy, applied a neck restraint and rolled him on his stomach.

In 2019, he sprayed mace in a man's face, applied a neck restraint, and sat on the man's back.

This seems to be his "go to" method for restraining people. I recall the manager at the nightclub saying she thought Chauvin was quick to anger, and often used excessive force when she thought it was unwarranted. (Especially on African American nights) He was also quick to pull out his pepper spray.

I wonder why officers were never taught of the dangers of prolonged pressure on the neck or back. That along with the mace would make it difficult for anyone to breathe.

Imo

So we know that ALL 18 incidents were for excessive force?

I know that the prosecution wanted to introduce 8 I think. This article says 6 had force involved:

Seventeen complaints filed with Minneapolis police about Derek Chauvin. Six times in which prosecutors say Chauvin used force against arrestees.

I can't seem to find a list of the details of all complaints (not sure one even exists lol)

I think the article I found is the original article from the post you quoted. Hate how they just copy and paste!!! lol Anyway, just curious if anyone knows what all the complaints were?

 

[Lilibet]

I appreciate this so much! Thank you and it’s certainly food for thought!

Thank YOU. Your point in your OP wondering if this was military vs LE training inspired me to dig this up. I think there is a huge overlap. Police work seems to attract former military and a military culture can develop in police departments or at least in individuals within otherwise low key departments if it isn’t stopped.

 

[Lilibet]

I thought she recanted the story that they had "beef "at work, or the man who initially said that was thinking of someone else and mistook him for Floyd. Imo

BBM

Yes, the man who made the mistake was very apologetic and contacted the media right away IIRC.

 

[Tom_Servo]

I get where you are coming from.

But juxtapose with this perhaps.

That the entire WORLD was in an uproar. Riots on most continents for George.

As with many cases followed here, the family just wants to out the TRUTH.. and bring to light all involved to sanitize with sunshine.

MOO

Prosecutors MOO will ask family, even perhaps if federal case? their opinion

Obvious, at least to me, that the world wants the truth, whatever it may expose... to come out through a jury trial. If it was settled, the world nor the family knows the evidence.

100%, 1,000% if I was a family member I don't care that his potential 10 years is more than the lower charges.

I would NOT CARE.

I personally, would say (can't do as would be against TOS) "... it"

MOO MOO This needs the sun to shine on the entire dang culture in addition to the 4.

MOO

I hear you...I hear you. It's such a slippery slope though. Hopefully whatever he gets is enough to satisfy the mob but I suspect anything less than murder will not. That pesky intent thing is far from being proven and the prosecution has likely fired their biggest guns in that regard. Minnesota needs to tighten up their murder guidelines because what looks like murder doesn't meet their own lax definitions.

 

[MsBetsy]

So we know that ALL 18 incidents were for excessive force?

I know that the prosecution wanted to introduce 8 I think. This article says 6 had force involved:

Seventeen complaints filed with Minneapolis police about Derek Chauvin. Six times in which prosecutors say Chauvin used force against arrestees.

I can't seem to find a list of the details of all complaints (not sure one even exists lol)

I think the article I found is the original article from the post you quoted. Hate how they just copy and paste!!! lol Anyway, just curious if anyone knows what all the complaints were?

I don't think the details are available in the records. Those were formal complaints but I doubt they reflect every incident Chauvin was involved in. Both Chauvin and Thao have a history of excessive force.

From what I can remember from news articles, Chauvin had also been involved in shootings and deaths. In 2005 he was involved in a police chase in which two people were killed when the vehicle they were chasing struck their car.

In 2006 a prison inmate filed a civil rights lawsuit against MPD including Chauvin, but it was dismissed because he didn't pay the filing fee. I don't think we know the details about that. The MPD seems to have a history of police brutality.

There was also a domestic abuse call when Chauvin forced open the bathroom door and started punching a man. He apparently reached for a weapon and Chauvin shot him twice in the stomach. He was put on administrative leave for that incident, as well as the time he and other officers chased down a Native American man. Those are the only other incidents I can remember right now.

 

[delilah]

Not even was the use of force unnecessary, but the police arriving on the scene to check out a suspected $20 forged bill was was unnecessary. Seriously, where in the world do police come out for something like that?

If I called in a complaint about a suspicious $20 bill, I can guarantee that the response would be, "Bring it in sometime when you come by, and we'll check it out". And that would be the end of it.

Nobody would die.

The way the whole incident was handled, it was a massive escalation from the beginning ie I think it was Kueng who drew his firearm even before GF had got out of his car. Two rookie coppers trying to get GF into their squad car would be almost comical if it wasn’t for the tragedy it turned into. All over a dodgy $20 dollar bill.

 

[Lilibet]

The way the whole incident was handled, it was a massive escalation from the beginning ie I think it was Kueng who drew his firearm even before GF had got out of his car. Two rookie coppers trying to get GF into their squad car would be almost comical if it wasn’t for the tragedy it turned into. All over a dodgy $20 dollar bill.

I wonder if being rookies, they wanted to prove themselves to their superiors. Once they met resistance, did they want to show Floyd who was boss and show their bosses they were tough and wouldn’t back down? And when Chauvin arrived he had to show he was boss. It’s all so juvenile, and as you said, the struggle getting GF into the squad car was almost comical/keystone cops material...until Mr Floyd died.

 

[sds71]

These are all of the incidents the State asked to introduce at trial:

1. On March 15, 2014, Defendant restrained an arrested male by placing his body weight on the male’s upper body and head area as the male laid in the prone position on the ground. Defendant reported that he used this restraint to control the male’s movements and to place the male in handcuffs. See MPD CCN 2014- 082863.

2. On February 15, 2015, Defendant restrained an arrested male by applying pressure to the male’s lingual artery below the male’s chin bone and pressing the male against a wall. Defendant then pulled the male to the ground, placed him in a prone position, and placed handcuffs on the male. Defendant kept the male handcuffed in the prone position until other officers arrived to aid him in placing the male in a squad car. See MPD CCN 2015-054320.

3. On August 22, 2015, Defendant participated in rendering aid to a suicidal, intoxicated, and mentally-disturbed male. Defendant observed other officers fight with and tase the male. Defendant then observed other officers place the male in a side-recovery position, consistent with training. Defendant rode with the male to the hospital to receive medical care. Officers involved in the response received a commendation for their appropriate efforts and received feedback from medical professionals that, if officers had prolonged their detention of the male or failed to transport the male to the hospital in a timely manner, the male could have died. See MPD CCN 2015-317385.

4. On April 22, 2016, Defendant restrained an arrested male by placing both of his hands around the male’s neck and applying pressure to both sides of the male’s neck. Defendant then forced the male backwards onto the sidewalk and handcuffed him. After Defendant placed the male in handcuffs, he stood the male up. Defendant’s actions resulted in a small crowd of concerned citizens to view Defendant’s actions. The male later complained of asthma, and paramedics were called to the scene. See MPD CCN 2016-141710.

5. On June 25, 2017, Defendant restrained an arrested female by placing his knee on her neck while she laid in prone position on the ground. Defendant shifted his body weight onto the female’s neck and continued to restrain the female in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD CCN 2017-235836.

6. On September 4, 2017, Defendant detained an arrested juvenile by applying a neck restraint, flipping the juvenile on his stomach, and pinning him to the floor. Defendant continued to restrain the juvenile in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD CCN 2017- 337738.

7. On March 12, 2019, Defendant detained an intoxicated male on the ground by applying a neck restraint on the male while sitting on the male’s lower back. Defendant continued to restrain the male in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD 2019-71230.

8. On July 6, 2019, defendant kicked an intoxicated male in the midsection and then applied a neck restraint on the male until the male was rendered unconscious. Defendant continued to restrain the male in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD 2019-19749.


Complaints

• 03-1999, Civilian Review Authority, DEMEANING TONE, SUSTAINED, ORAL REPRIMAND
• 03-1999, Civilian Review Authority, DEROGATORY LANGUAGE, SUSTAINED, ORAL REPRIMAND
• 03-1999, Civilian Review Authority, LANGUAGE--OTHER, SUSTAINED, ORAL REPRIMAND
• 04-2100, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 05-2306, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 09-2643, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 09-2680, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 12-3244, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 13-09814, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 13-10527, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 13-32189, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 14-14106, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 14-23776, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 15-04541, IA , Closed - No Discipline
• 15-12394, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 20-06870, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• A10-140, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• A10-269, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• A11-185, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• FR08-06, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• IA06-76, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• IA07-39, Internal Affairs, ABUSE OF DISCRETION, SUSTAINED, LETTER OF REPRIMAND
• IA07-39, Internal Affairs, MVR, SUSTAINED, LETTER OF REPRIMAND
• IA10-172, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• P11-115, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• P12-174, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline

Page

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/me...otice-of-Intent-to-Officer-Other-Evidence.pdf

 

[SouthAussie]

These are all of the incidents the State asked to introduce at trial:

1. On March 15, 2014, Defendant restrained an arrested male by placing his body weight on the male’s upper body and head area as the male laid in the prone position on the ground. Defendant reported that he used this restraint to control the male’s movements and to place the male in handcuffs. See MPD CCN 2014- 082863.

2. On February 15, 2015, Defendant restrained an arrested male by applying pressure to the male’s lingual artery below the male’s chin bone and pressing the male against a wall. Defendant then pulled the male to the ground, placed him in a prone position, and placed handcuffs on the male. Defendant kept the male handcuffed in the prone position until other officers arrived to aid him in placing the male in a squad car. See MPD CCN 2015-054320.

3. On August 22, 2015, Defendant participated in rendering aid to a suicidal, intoxicated, and mentally-disturbed male. Defendant observed other officers fight with and tase the male. Defendant then observed other officers place the male in a side-recovery position, consistent with training. Defendant rode with the male to the hospital to receive medical care. Officers involved in the response received a commendation for their appropriate efforts and received feedback from medical professionals that, if officers had prolonged their detention of the male or failed to transport the male to the hospital in a timely manner, the male could have died. See MPD CCN 2015-317385.

4. On April 22, 2016, Defendant restrained an arrested male by placing both of his hands around the male’s neck and applying pressure to both sides of the male’s neck. Defendant then forced the male backwards onto the sidewalk and handcuffed him. After Defendant placed the male in handcuffs, he stood the male up. Defendant’s actions resulted in a small crowd of concerned citizens to view Defendant’s actions. The male later complained of asthma, and paramedics were called to the scene. See MPD CCN 2016-141710.

5. On June 25, 2017, Defendant restrained an arrested female by placing his knee on her neck while she laid in prone position on the ground. Defendant shifted his body weight onto the female’s neck and continued to restrain the female in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD CCN 2017-235836.

6. On September 4, 2017, Defendant detained an arrested juvenile by applying a neck restraint, flipping the juvenile on his stomach, and pinning him to the floor. Defendant continued to restrain the juvenile in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD CCN 2017- 337738.

7. On March 12, 2019, Defendant detained an intoxicated male on the ground by applying a neck restraint on the male while sitting on the male’s lower back. Defendant continued to restrain the male in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD 2019-71230.

8. On July 6, 2019, defendant kicked an intoxicated male in the midsection and then applied a neck restraint on the male until the male was rendered unconscious. Defendant continued to restrain the male in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD 2019-19749.


Complaints

• 03-1999, Civilian Review Authority, DEMEANING TONE, SUSTAINED, ORAL REPRIMAND
• 03-1999, Civilian Review Authority, DEROGATORY LANGUAGE, SUSTAINED, ORAL REPRIMAND
• 03-1999, Civilian Review Authority, LANGUAGE--OTHER, SUSTAINED, ORAL REPRIMAND
• 04-2100, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 05-2306, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 09-2643, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 09-2680, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 12-3244, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 13-09814, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 13-10527, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 13-32189, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 14-14106, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 14-23776, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 15-04541, IA , Closed - No Discipline
• 15-12394, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 20-06870, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• A10-140, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• A10-269, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• A11-185, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• FR08-06, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• IA06-76, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• IA07-39, Internal Affairs, ABUSE OF DISCRETION, SUSTAINED, LETTER OF REPRIMAND
• IA07-39, Internal Affairs, MVR, SUSTAINED, LETTER OF REPRIMAND
• IA10-172, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• P11-115, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• P12-174, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline

Page

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/me...otice-of-Intent-to-Officer-Other-Evidence.pdf

Had to look up that MVR (sustained, letter of reprimand). MVR = motor vehicle recording, ie squad mounted cameras.