George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #13 Thursday July 11

[DIBSY]

I don't think you should comment on the jury until they come back with a verdict...imo

I was commenting on a hypothetical Jury, not specifically this one. Interesting you thought this was the one. IMO:seeya:

 

[SassyMom]

Respectfully snipped by me:



I'm sorry that you and your son had to go through that SassyMom. You are highlighting some good points, but what if this man killed your son? Your son could not tell you what happened. This creep could have said he was forced to kill your son in self defense which is exactly what GZ is doing. That's my point. Dark, with witnesses seeing/hearing some activity AFTER the struggle started. GZ has been less than honest in the past (that's on the record - donations, passports, etc). I do not believe his version. It has been modified to justify self defense. GZ deserves some punishment; at the very least a manslaughter conviction.

Yes, I realize the main difference is that my son is here to tell his side of what happened that night, and Trayvon is not. Maybe I should have kept our story out of the discussion, but the thing is, as a Mom I can see my son in Trayvon. I have enormous angst about his death. I can relate to the notion of 'he was just a baby'. A kid. A child. But when I imagine how it would have gone if my son had thrown a punch....it would be like a gnat against an elephant. There is no way my son would have presented that man with any trouble in a fight, despite what my son may think of his abilities to fight. And that man could have easily killed my son without a gun.

But IMO I just don't see Zimmerman as this creation the media and the activists have made of him. I see a meek man that wants to have some role in the safety of his community and his person. I don't have any issue with the fact that he owns a gun and carries. I WISH I had a gun because society seems to have gone insane and responsible ownership of a gun could restore a sense of safety I used to have, but my husband is really opposed to the idea of it.

I just don't see any intent to kill in Zimmerman. I see it as a terrible trainwreck of events that resulted in an untimely death. I told my story as an example of how a person with hatred and spite conducts themself in a similar situation.

Thanks for your response

 

[RANCH]

CCW classes never tell you how to use your gun in that way. It is all personal. You can not carry one in the chamber, you can carry one in the chamber with the safety on, or one in the chamber with no safety. And all of these are legal and allowed and its of personal choice. I have a CCW permit and have had multiple classes and they always leave the option up to you on how you want to carry, because it is after all your weapon and your life you are depending. And as for LE recommended not, do LE not carry one in the chamber? Heck no. And I have many LE in my family and they say you minds well not even have a gun if you don't carry in the chamber. Now there is definitely differing of opinions but I don't believe at all it makes one irresponsible for carrying one in the chamber and I don't believe even the court would say that either.


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I liken the Kel-Tec PF 9 DAO pistol to my S&W .357 magnum revolver. Neither have an external safety and it's perfectly fine to have a round in the chamber while carrying them.

A revolver will have all chambers loaded. The long and heavy trigger pull is what makes it impossible to fire unless the person wants to do so. MOO.

 

[EGirl]

Yes, but this one wasn't IMO

He was committing a crime the minute he punched GZ.

 

[EGirl]

Nope one of the 911 callers took pictures that clearly show he was bleeding. IMO

Yes, CONTINUING to bleed.

 

[JeannaT]

IIRC his nose was not broken.

His PA believed his nose to be broken, and it was also written by an EMT (I believe) that his nose was broken.

It wasn't out of alignment the next day when he saw his PA, but she still believed it to be broken. And still believed it on the witness stand.

IMHO

 

[wonders]

That 17-year-old child started this whole ball in motion when he attacked GZ. There were no charges filed because it was felt to have been a self-defense case. It was only when immense political pressure was put on the DA's office that they succumbed and changed self-defense to murder 2. You call it a brutal unjustified killing of a child - how many times was GZ supposed to allow said child to smash his head into concrete? If said "child" ultimately killed GZ due to blunt trauma from the head smashing, would you be just as sympathetic to GZ's family and to his memory? Because it certainly could have ended up that way. I do want to say I'm sorry for ALL involved in this very sad case - it's lose-lose all the way around. But having grown up with a younger brother that was always looking to hurt someone from an early age, sometimes the term "child" is just a relative term. I would bet the people on the receiving end of my "child" brother's beatings felt he was as far away from a "child" as one could possibly be. We live in California where people are not armed, but I can't imagine if my brother had lived in Florida that he wouldn't have met the same fate as TM. Please understand that I'm not condoning what GZ did by any means but I don't think TM is blameless in this very sad situation.

Oh dear...
17 year old Trayvon Martin would still be alive if Zimmerman had kept himself from following and getting out of his vehicle as he was told "we dont need you to do that" TWICE mind you.
Even if TM had approached GZ in his vehicle he still had more protection then TM did. GZ could have rolled up all window's, lock all door's and been on the phone with LE, not even to mention the concealed weapon and not engaged TM at all.
Yup, that's my opinion.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Just as an aside, this was one of the most shocking parts of her testimony for me. I can not conceive of any circumstance that would prevent me from immediately checking up on a friend (or an acquaintance, for that matter) who I believed to have been in a physical altercation with someone. Their phone would be ringing off the hook and if they didn't answer, I'd be on the other line to the police.

I didn't know what to do with that either. I hope the defense brings that up in closing. She is on the phone with him the whole day (why?). And she even said TM called GZ a creepy cracka. He was likely just trying to sound tough as a teenager might do. And I sincerely believe she provoked TM to go back and confront GZ and feels guilty, as she should! And then she doesn't check on her friend? In any case,if I can't believe her story in whole, I can't believe any of it.
And I truly wish she wouldn't sell herself as a friend of TM. She is not.

 

[cityslick]

First, it was too dark to tell with absolute certainty, one witness said GZ was on top, another TM. Besides being on top does not imply that he was attacking the person below, especially when there's NO DNA on TM's hands or sleeves. GZ had injuries but there's *no evidence* that they were inflicted by TM, IMO.

The narrative should fit the evidence, not the other way round. IMO.

Nevermind the witnesses (despite JG saying he saw the person with lighter skin on the bottom), lets go with forensics. Where the forensic expert from two days ago explained how TM was on top.

The irony is the state, for all intents and purposes, has conceeded that TM was on top, thats why they are changing their strategy to say he was 'pulling away' (they certainly didn't say that in their opening statement).

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Just as an aside, this was one of the most shocking parts of her testimony for me. I can not conceive of any circumstance that would prevent me from immediately checking up on a friend (or an acquaintance, for that matter) who I believed to have been in a physical altercation with someone. Their phone would be ringing off the hook and if they didn't answer, I'd be on the other line to the police.

Same here. They were texting for hours on end/talking, etc. Then RJ thinks he gets into a (routine?) fight, and doesn't call back for days/weeks? Unbelievable.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The Defense brought race into it yestgerday with a witness who spoke of her fear when two AA guys knocked on her door and broke in...this was supposed to give her neighbor GZ a license to kill when he saw anyone AA. IMO

No she didn't. She was asked what race the people were that broke into her home and they were AA. You can not take that and make it anything but what it was. A description of the people that broke into her house and scared her to death.

 

[logicalgirl]

Actually, I belive there were 2 cuts, and very small ones at that. However, teeth would make a cut on your hand, and the cuts would be very small. I never indicated TM's cuts were knife size. The cuts were consistent with teeth marks.

My apologies - I was very clear that the Defense experts medical witness was that they were "scrape" marks.....
ImO

 

[Mahouston69]

I am a small woman and I can shoot a gun with my non dominant hand and not allow the recoil to hit me in the face. He is a man and stronger than me. I just don't think that scenario is accurate at all and it's not a possibility IMO.


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How about if you are under a taller man on the ground and he has his hands or elbows on your arms while you struggle to get the gun in position to shoot?

Or are you stating he wasn't struggling when he shot?

 

[Inobu]

It is really perplexing how GZ has everyone believing his account. He claims a chaotic event with his head feeling like it is going to exploding. Then he has the presents to feel that TM is going for his gun. Have the ability to hold TM hand under his arm and access the gun.

On top of that "ONE SHOT ONE KILL". then state that he did not know if he hit TM 4 inches away all the while TM says "YOU got me".

 

[EGirl]

Oh dear...
17 year old Trayvon Martin would still be alive if Zimmerman had kept himself from following and getting out of his vehicle as he was told "we dont need you to do that" TWICE mind you.
Even if TM had approached GZ in his vehicle he still had more protection then TM did. GZ could have rolled up all window's, lock all door's and been on the phone with LE, not even to mention the concealed weapon and not engaged TM at all.
Yup, that's my opinion.

Trayvon would be alive IMO if he had kept walking home instead of circling back to attack GZ.

JMO

 

[cinsbythesea]

Looks like GZ Mom, Dad and brother are all there now

 

[rose222]

I didn't follow that trial at all. Were there threats of rioting and other violence in that case? Certainly the New Black Panthers didn't put a bounty on her head, right? I think the "fear" factor in this case is way more "real," if you will. jmo

Just threats of violence from individuals. KC is out and about. She's fine. You're right. Zimmerman is much more at risk. How sad considering he's innocent.

 

[?noanswer]

I didn't know what to do with that either. I hope the defense brings that up in closing. She is on the phone with him the whole day (why?). And she even said TM called GZ a creepy cracka. He was likely just trying to sound tough as a teenager might do. And I sincerely believe she provoked TM to go back and confront GZ and feels guilty, as she should! And then she doesn't check on her friend? In any case,if I can't believe her story in whole, I can't believe any of it.
And I truly wish she wouldn't sell herself as a friend of TM. She is not.

Was there a recording of any phone calls to which she testfied as to what they talked about?

JMO

 

[Love Never Fails]

Imo, there will be a Federal Civil Rights charge in the event of an acquittal...

Geez....wouldn't you know? And if so, that is BOGUS.

 

[Trident]

Imo, there will be a Federal Civil Rights charge in the event of an acquittal...

Who are they going to go after, the jury? That doesn't make any sense to me, IMO