George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[jjenny]

When it is self defense, the defendent is the victim. Yes Zimmerman had the right to kill Martin if that was the only way he could protect himself. This is not a world where the strongest wins. People have been beaten to death, it is a common way to murder weaker people.
:twocents::twocents::twocents:MOO:twocents::twocents::twocents:

I know of a quite a few people that went into a coma and die from one punch.
So it certainly reasonable to me if one fears for his life from being punched.

 

[Perthgirl62]

I got a root canal. Now you believe me? IMO

The bill would probably have been the scariest thing! IMO

 

[jjenny]

I'll bet weak unfit men everywhere are rejoicing with this presentation. Hey, I can start a fight, lose it, and shoot the guy and it's legal.

Unbelievable the world has come to this.

IMO

No evidence presented that Zimmerman started a fight.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

And yet best supports none of GZ's DNA on or injuries to Trayvon's hands.
Fancy that.

Don't forget it was raining and DNA evidence doesn't last in rain or when sealed wet in plastic bags. There is no way to know if there was any DNA, and the shoddy collection practices benefit the defense. They get the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty.

:twocents::twocents::twocents:MOO:twocents::twocents::twocents:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

And I had it done in Miami. The parking lot was full of criminals trying to break into my car. IMO

Did you happen to see this? Hope it was not here..



http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/07/10/miami-market-owner-shoots-at-would-be-robbers/



The point is you never know where you could be attacked or if someone you are near is a criminal. Does that mean you live in fear? No. But it also means if you have legal right to arm yourself, And you choose to do so, It should not be held against you if you use that weapon to save your life.

 

[cityslick]

I'll bet weak unfit men everywhere are rejoicing with this presentation. Hey, I can start a fight, lose it, and shoot the guy and it's legal.

Unbelievable the world has come to this.

IMO

Still waiting for evidence that proves GZ started the fight....

 

[Chris_Texas]

You're right. Usually the state has evidence to disprove a defendants version of events.

The state in this case has none. It's innocent till proven guilty, it's always been like that, it's always going to be like that. Prove that he's guilty.

IMO

No, I believe you misunderstand something very important. Zimmerman is not assumed to be innocent, nor is it assumed that he is telling the truth.

Zimmerman killed an unarmed teen. He has admitted to doing so. Killing unarmed people is against the law. However, Zimmerman is claiming that he had no choice but to kill this kid, and that therefore he should be excused from the normal penalties that might apply.

Zimmerman is the one making this claim. It is his job to provide some evidence to justify his choices. The prosecution's job here is not to prove what happened, but to show that Zimmerman's version of events is not necessarily believable. Every questionable statement Zimmerman has made, every flaw in his various stories, the lack of any meaningful injuries, all these must be weighted by the jury. They are not weighting the prosecution's case -- as there is no question that Zimmerman pulled the trigger -- they are weighting Zimmerman's excuse.

The reason for this is simple. If the law did not work in this way, virtually any time a murder took place away from witnesses the defense could claim self-defense. Yes, I stopped the woman at gunpoint, but I never planned to kill her -- she grabbed for my gun! Prove me wrong! Yes, I followed this kid around with a gun, but I never planned to kill him -- he attacked me, he went for my gun! Prove me wrong!

See how that works? Zimmerman is the one making the claim, and it's a bloody big one. We have an unarmed dead teen, a teen who (by the defendant's own admission) was attempting to get away. Getting from that to "I had to kill him" is a mighty big leap, and Zimmerman's story has quite a few holes.

IMO

 

[bellaalex]

I actually believed that was said by RJ to TM in order to kid him a bit out of his fear.I know it sounds strange,but it is what one friend might say to another as a joke to lighten the moment.
I do think TM was uneasy due to the actions of GZ.
IMO

No, RJ said TM said them TO her. He called Zimmerman a Creepy @ss Cracker and a Ni66er. TM brought the race card to the table. IMO
Sharpton, Jackson and Crump then brought it on to the world. IMO

 

[Mahouston69]

The gun isn't big enough to cause multiple cuts on the back of his head, and the side of his head, split his lip, cause damage to the side of his mouth, split his lip on the front of his mouth, and break his nose.
I haven't seen that much damage even from a 10 guage shotgun, or a 30.06, and those actually kick!

:twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/10/don-gammill-jr/gun-review-kel-tec-pf-9-9mm/

Recoil and muzzle flip significant.
Especially in close quarters.
Some have likened it to being kicked by a mule.

 

[Wolfpack Fan]

It was pouring down rain during the first part of the fight. Remember the neighbor who had the window raised so her cat could sit on the windowsill? She was sitting in bed reading before her TV program came on. She said that it started raining and she closed the window. Then she heard noise outside and wondered who would be walking their dog in the pouring rain. Plus Trayvon's hands were never bagged. Any DNA on his hands would have washed off. Evidence seems to prove that Trayvon didn't scratch George because I don't think the rain could have washed any DNA from under his fingernails.

 

[katiewonders]

I understand - but object to the someone starting a fight, then finds they are losing - then uses deadly force.Then claims self defense.

Stay in your truck George - you were considered unfit and obese.

IMO

BBM Although these words are true, I believe his condition had nothing to do with his intention of keeping a visual on TM, to see where he was so he could tell the cops his location. Did it hinder his performance in a fight? Yes. Maybe that's why GZ was in training, to become more fit and muscular, and maybe why he wanted the CCW. And nothing wrong with that. IMO

 

[sorrell skye]

I seriously don't see the relevance of dentist's visits in a 2nd degree murder trial.

 

[Karmady]

I have absolutely no doubt that people will have differing opinions on this. And I totally understand and respect that.

The biggest thing that I'm trying to get across is that the concept of going to check out something suspicious is not crazy, in my opinion. Is it good judgement, probably not. But again, the concept of investigating can make sense. It doesn't have to mean you are a stalker, or over-zealous, or full of hatred, or want to kill. Sometimes when people see or hear something suspicious, they investigate. That's my only point.

IMO

I do it. If Trayvon had been in my neighborhood under similar circumstances, I would have dialed my cell to 911 ready to hit call, and gone outside to see what he was up to and to make sure he saw me. Smart? Maybe not. lol

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I'll bet weak unfit men everywhere are rejoicing with this presentation. Hey, I can start a fight, lose it, and shoot the guy and it's legal.

Unbelievable the world has come to this.

IMO

I refuse to believe you think that weak unfit people can be beaten to death without being able to attempt to defend themselves.

MOOO:stormingmad:

 

[Mahouston69]

What it comes down to is the state has to prove that Zimmerman attacked Martin. Not followed him. Not profiled him. Not wannabe copped him or whatever. Not that the situation could have been avoided if he dd not exit his car. The state has to prove that Zimmerman attacked. Initiated violence. And I can't see where they came anywhere near that.

Or show his injuries didn't come from Trayvon attacking him but by his own actions.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think there's been a lot of sympathy for GZ. IMO. He has a lot of supporters.

IMO too many and I find that more than a little frightening.

 

[MeeBee]

Still waiting for evidence that proves GZ started the fight....

I believe RJ's testimony is considered evidence, IMO. Whether people like it or not. IMO

 

[qwerty2013]

There is evidence and witness testimony. He is the one that spoke to GZ after calling him an epithet. Not the other way around as per state witness RJ.
HE told her he was AT his daddy's house and then he is back where GZ was.

The evidence shows his movement back to and speaking to GZ.

No, witness JG did not see TM punching GZ or slamming his head into the concrete sidewalk, he only saw TM on top and up and down arm motions, which could have been restraining and pushing motion. Mostly likely the latter, as there's ZERO GZ DNA on TM's person. IMO

So JG did not witness a situation where death or great bodily harm would have been IMMINENT. IMO

It was very helpful of you to post the self-defense statute, unfortunately, it has been misinterpreted as "carte blanche" by many even though it laid very SPECIFIC conditions under which self-defense may apply - *REASONABLE* FEAR for *IMMINENT* DEATH/GREAT INJURY.:twocents:

 

[cityslick]

No, I believe you misunderstand something very important. Zimmerman is not assumed to be innocent, nor is it assumed that he is telling the truth.

Zimmerman killed an unarmed teen. He has admitted to doing so. Killing unarmed people is against the law. However, Zimmerman is claiming that he had no choice but to kill this kid, and that therefore he should be excused from the normal penalties that might apply.

Zimmerman is the one making this claim. It is his job to provide some evidence to justify his choices. The prosecution's job here is not to prove what happened, but to show that Zimmerman's version of events is not necessarily believable. Every questionable statement Zimmerman has made, every flaw in his various stories, the lack of any meaningful injuries, all these must be weighted by the jury. They are not weighting the prosecution's case -- as there is no question that Zimmerman pulled the trigger -- they are weighting Zimmerman's excuse.

The reason for this is simple. If the law did not work in this way, virtually any time a murder took place away from witnesses the defense could claim self-defense. Yes, I stopped the woman at gunpoint, but I never planned to kill her -- she grabbed for my gun! Prove me wrong! Yes, I followed this kid around with a gun, but I never planned to kill him -- he attacked me, he went for my gun! Prove me wrong!

See how that works? Zimmerman is the one making the claim, and it's a bloody big one. We have an unarmed dead teen, a teen who (by the defendant's own admission) was attempting to get away. Getting from that to "I had to kill him" is a mighty big leap, and Zimmerman's story has quite a few holes.

IMO

Incorrect, what you posted only applies in a Stand Your Ground defense, at least that's how it works in Florida.

The biggest problem with this case is folks don't understand the law.

 

[RANCH]

Still waiting for evidence that proves GZ started the fight....

You can stop waiting because there is none. MOO.