George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[Linda7NJ]

Shaving his head would not erase the cuts in his scalp. It would just prove that some of the bumps he had that night are 'normal' for him.

Superficial scratches

 

[corundogs]

it doesn't matter if his nose was broken or not. legally all that matters is that he felt his life was in imminent danger.

And based on again, my common sense and what I know of the evidence (911 call from GZ and the witnesses that have taken the stand)...

Trayvon Martin was the one who felt his life was in danger. He was the one who was on the defensive first.

And the person who put that person on the defensive doesn't then get to turn around and say well I was defending myself, from that person defending myself.

It just doesn't work that way.

And before you ask what evidence I have of that...Trayvon Martin running away from this guy. That is when he was immediately on the defense.

I don't think there is anyone in the entire world except Trayvon would could tell me that didn't mean he wasn't scared...and even then, I would question that.

That's what "running away" means, in it's basic meaning. Of course, unless we are talking about a game of tag, which we aren't.

 

[Nymeria]

One does not perceive the sound of "wet grass" with just one's ears (unless one is sensory disabled and has only auditory ability). It is practically impossible for someone to accurately recognize the sound of "wet grass" over the phone.

Did Rachel say she heard the "wet grass" AFTER TM dropped the phone or before?
I can imagine if it was after and TM dropped his phone at his feet she could have heard the "squishing" sound a shoe would make in really damp earth.

Does that make sense to anyone but me??? :facepalm:

 

[JudyBolton]

Broken noses are routinely diagnosed without an x-ray.

It may be surprising to know that x-rays are not particularly helpful in diagnosing and treating broken noses. Also, many fractures do not need to be repaired but just need time to heal.​

http://ent.about.com/od/enttreatments/a/Treating-Broken-Noses.htm

Yes - the same with a broken toe (personal experience) - They weren't going to surgically repair his nose either way and he could breathe. Also, at that juncture - the officers believed GZ's account of what happened - the scene matched his story - so they weren't thinking about swabbing the sidewalk, taking x-rays, etc. as they would in say an unsolved murder scene.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

X-rays detect disturbances in bones.

CT scans detects disturbances in soft tissue like cartilage- which is what forms our noses.

X-rays are not used to detect a broken nose.

HTH

 

[gxm]

I disagree.

She knew it was raining.

Common sense tells you that when it rains, grass it wet. I mean, I don't need ANY sense other than the one called common to tell me that.

And if she didn't hear the phone fall onto concrete...what other option is there? I mean, she knew they were outside.

I guess I just disagree that one couldn't "know" what was happening just because all they can do is hear.

And, IMO and with all due respect, the science proves you wrong. The phone could have fallen on pavement. TM could have put it in his pocket (and it fell out during the scuffle). There is no way this witness can accurately "know" most of what the state is trying to claim she "witnessed." She is making assumptions based on after-the-fact knowledge. Almost her entire testimony (and that of the other "ear witnesses") is based on assumptions. IMO, it's one of the most ludicrous things I've seen in a court room (but I haven't followed a case with "ear witnesses" before).

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Then he didn't think his gun was any protection ? He couldn't have just pulled his gun and held TM in place until LE arrived ? No offense, but his Woe Is Me tale has no rhyme or reason. His " injuries" were extremely minimal. They didn't even bother to do X-Rays.

Well he's not going to wait until his injuries are worse in order to defend himself. imo

 

[cityslick]

A patient consultation is extremely important.

Lol

When you go to the doctors for an injury or illness do you stand there, say nothing, and demand your doctor reach a diagnoses?

You dont need an xray for a broken nose, see my webmd link.

 

[Skully]

I haven't posted about this case much because I felt from the beginning GZ should have stayed in the car. But I watched his walk through with the cops and what he said went down, and he said the operator asked if he knew or could still see TM? So he is explaining why he is walking around to get a better view, also there were no street signs in the back so he was looking for an address to give them. He is this guy who is a crime watch person, armed and see a kid and decides in his mind that he is up to no good. Right there he is profiling a "" what he thinks is a . He makes the statement "they always get away". In his mind, this one wasn't getting away, I don't think he intended to kill TM, but to keep him there until LE got there. This wasn't his job. Even if TM was a or breaking into an apartment, GZ wasn't LE and needed to wait for LE. He said he was out looking for an address, but what he needed to do, was sit in his car. TM may have attacked him, if so, he picked the wrong guy to attack because he was armed. One person has the mind set, I am keeping a from getting away, the other person thinks, I am going to keep this creep from following me or anyone on my watch. No one wins. All GZ had to do when confronted by TM was tell him I am Crime Watch, and LE are on there way, I called them, I saw someone walking around here and he have had burglaries in the past. This whole thing could have been avoided. JMO and I do have a CWP and I believe in self defense.

 

[kaRN]

He still had to be examined. Are you saying I can go to a doctors office and say my arm is broken but I don't want an xray and they'll put that I have a broken arm in my medical records? They just take your word for it?

If your arm is twisted into a position you couldn't get it into without being fractured or if the bone was projecting through flesh then yes they would and then they might document their concerns over your mental health for refusing treatment. :twocents:

 

[ncgramma]

Interesting. Wasn't the gun in a holster? Was it easily accessible ie., without something physically fastening it into place (snaps, Velcro)? It would be very difficult to remove with someone on top of you, wailing on your head. Could GZ have had the gun drawn while looking for TM? Just speculating...

The holster appeared to be a clip type. Think of something that would slip over a belt. (Gee I wish I had the link to the pictures of it. They're in evidence.)
As to the other parts of your question/thoughts, that's hard to say without doing a whole lot of speculating. The type of holster GZ had would not be difficult to remove a gun from under normal circumstances. Add a real stressful situation and all that adrenalin flowing and I suspect it would be REAL easy to remove the gun. After all, we've all read stories about people picking up cars!

 

[SassyMom]

I would hope that the letter written in cursive that the witness could not herself read was taken down in the presence of all necessary legal personnel. It's perfectly acceptable for someone who cannot write who is a witness to an alleged crime to dictate to a responsible party, but it's still not as 'good' as that person writing down their words themselves. I wonder if she cannot write at all. I don't think any law requires it to be written in cursive.

That must've been humiliating for her to have to admit she cannot read cursive writing in front of God and everybody. I hope people on the prosecution side realizes this girl needs some help in dealing with this whole situation and help her get it.

 

[Mollyandme]

I totally agree with the whole blaming the victim stuff. Here is my concern... if, according to RJ, TM was right by the back of dad's gf's townhouse how is it this confrontation took place 700ft away back towards where GZ's truck was?

because maybe trayvon was the one chasing GZ? i know that seems to be an unpopular opinion on this board but it's my opinion

 

[DIBSY]

What would an x-ray do with respect to a concussion? I certainly have not received X-rays when I was concussed.

A CT scan is a special sort of X-Ray for detecting concussions....they are almost compulsory for head injuries.
Diagnostic tests

If your health-care provider suspects a concussion, the following tests may be ordered.
•CT scan
This is a special X-ray image of the brain.

 

[Karmady]

I don't see a medical report, but an article I'm sure that was given by the defense. Hopefully we will see a true medical report and the physician on the witness stand unless of course GZ does not want to release his medical records which is his right not to do so.

The report:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99022693/George-Zimmerman-Medical-Report

 

[m00c0w]

I consider all of it to be relevant.

Then what else in your statement would change the meaning of the definition? That's what we're talking about here - how the word is defined. Quite simply, the source you used defined it as "Pursue in order to catch or catch up with".

They have included examples to assist in understanding this definition, but they use the word itself... Which cannot lend to defining the word.

They have included synonyms, which are synonyms. These are not definitions of the word, but words that are similar to the word. "Similar", as in not "equal to".

To say that it's not valid because it doesn't fit one definition is incorrect if it also happens to fit another.

Which "other" definition does it fit?

That is why words can have multiple definitions and uses.

I agree with you on this point...

The definition is not an "either/and," it is an "either/or." Since you made mention of logic earlier, surely you should understand the difference.

You are correct. However, the wording that has been used is "chasing", or "chased". Clearly, these are not nouns, as they have a tense. You cannot conjugate nouns. You cannot simply apply the definition of the word as a noun to something that has been used as a verb. Therefore, the only definition that is applicable that you provided is that of "chase" in the predicate form.

If you want to start saying "Zimmerman went on a chase", that would be fine. So would "There was a chase". However, "Zimmerman chased Martin" is not.

Understand?

 

[Overuled]

Is it possible or could it have happened that when the scuffle occured- tm cell phone hit the ground and got knocked around a bit- on Rachels end of the line she could have heard what sounde like wet grass? The sliding around of the cell? Just wondering-

 

[Overuled]

Jury is back.

 

[Karmady]

I would hope that the letter written in cursive that the witness could not herself read was taken down in the presence of all necessary legal personnel. It's perfectly acceptable for someone who cannot write who is a witness to an alleged crime to dictate to a responsible party, but it's still not as 'good' as that person writing down their words themselves. I wonder if she cannot write at all. I don't think any law requires it to be written in cursive.

That must've been humiliating for her to have to admit she cannot read cursive writing in front of God and everybody. I hope people on the prosecution side realizes this girl needs some help in dealing with this whole situation and help her get it.

There was no LE present. Her friend Francine wrote it for her.

 

[NotMyselfNEMore]

Just curious, but if TM didn't inflict the injuries how could he have gotten them? I just don't know what people were theorizing on that point. tia

This is just my own opinion -
I think it's possible that GZ slipped and fell, maybe while he was following or when he caught up to TM. They've said it was quite dark, was raining, and that GZ wasn't in the best shape. He might have easily lost his footing while he was 'in pursuit', and gotten hurt. GZ might not even be certain himself, but remembered in a way that made most sense to him from his viewpoint. It was very dark, and he was likely disoriented. I would be.
Of course there are other possibilities, but this seems likely - to me.

However he got his injuries, I'm not clear about why he wouldn't have asked one of the paramedics on scene to take a look - after they had done everything possible for TM, of course. Or asked the police to get him some medical attention, gone to the emergency room - something...
If I remember correctly, he went to his own doctor the next day, or shortly afterwards.
Based on how GZ stated he was hurt, it seems as if there could have been potentially very serious injuries that would warrant at least an emergency room visit. I'd think LE would insist he get immediate medical attention, just for liability reasons.
Just my opinion, and I apologize if this has already been mentioned.