George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[Linda7NJ]

You dont need an xray for a broken nose, see my webmd link.

I never said it would be beneficial medically.
There was no deformity on exam. No black eyes, no deviated septum, no trouble breathing. Just George's word for the cause and complaints of severe pain.

If George wants to state for a fact it was broken, he needs the x-ray.

 

[SDT]

Exactly. And then hours later in the police photos, there is no swelling of his nose.

Where did that swelling go? If it was broken, it wouldn't have gone down like that.

So how does that photo with the blood and swelling on the side not show up just a few hours later?

One theory is the cell phone photo was photoshopped. I don't know the chain of command with the photo, do you?

But I do find it very odd that swelling would that prominent immediately after, and then be gone in just a few hours - so little time that the small surface scratches on his head hadn't even stopped bleeding!!!

Those wounds in and of themselves are suspect to me, since bodyparts being repeatedly banged against concrete normally has abrasions not scratches/cuts/slices (pick a word).

But that's beside the point. We are talking about the swelling on the side of his nose being there in one cell phone photo but then absent in police photos.

I think the problem here is many posters seem to paint with a broad stroke brush.

My brother-in-law pushed me into an ordinary wall and my head hit right above my ear. The skin above my left ear split without a single scratch, abrasion or any other synonym. It required stitches and he only pushed me.

The year before that, he grabbed my sister by the face and repeatedly bashed her head into a concrete wall she was standing next to. Not a single scratch...she had a skull fracture and it never bled a single drop.

I think the human body is a magical thing and an injury may happen to one person and present itself as one thing and happen to another and look different.

I am still on the fence as to who/what I believe happened, but I think too many are stuck with their beliefs and assume a lot about who/what/where/when. I personally need more facts before I can judge the validity of either side.

I just hope we all make it through this with our sanity and wits about us. Happy posting all!

 

[m00c0w]

A CT scan is a special sort of X-Ray for detecting concussions....they are almost compulsory for head injuries.
Diagnostic tests

If your health-care provider suspects a concussion, the following tests may be ordered.
•CT scan
This is a special X-ray image of the brain.

So when you said "x-ray happy", you meant the large number of x-rays that are taken automatically during a CT scan... And not x-rays as a typical person would think of them?

 

[iluvmua]

Interesting. Wasn't the gun in a holster? Was it easily accessible ie., without something physically fastening it into place (snaps, Velcro)? It would be very difficult to remove with someone on top of you, wailing on your head. Could GZ have had the gun drawn while looking for TM? Just speculating...

He could of, But there is no evidence to suggest he did.

JMO

 

[SassyMom]

Superficial scratches

If by superficial you mean the cuts did not go through his skull, I agree. They were cuts through the scalp stopping at the skull.

 

[Arishia]

Don't take my word for it.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/broken-nose-nasal-fracture-topic-overview

A broken nose is diagnosed through a physical examination and medical history. An X-ray of the nose is not usually needed or helpful if only a broken nose is suspected. If other facial injuries or fractures are suspected, a CT scan will be done. Your doctor may wish to delay evaluation until the swelling has gone down. This may take several days.

If I had just killed a kid and was claiming the kid attacked me and injured me, and that I feared for my life/serious bodily injury he was beating me so badly, I'd get the most complete medical documentation available.

 

[legalmania]

His dad lives in Miami...

Not according to this article.

http://www./815308/trayvon-martins-father-viciously-attacks-zimmerman-supporter-in-court/

And had it not been for social media, and the small glimmer of hope it provided for Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, the story would have likely ended there. Just for a second, imagine that first day for his parents — not only do you learn no one had bothered to inform you of your high schooler’s shooting death despite the fact you lived blocks away from the crime scene, but the man known to be responsible had already been questioned and released.

 

[SDT]

This is just my own opinion -
I think it's possible that GZ slipped and fell, maybe while he was following or when he caught up to TM. They've said it was quite dark, was raining, and that GZ wasn't in the best shape. He might have easily lost his footing while he was 'in pursuit', and gotten hurt. GZ might not even be certain himself, but remembered in a way that made most sense to him from his viewpoint. It was very dark, and he was likely disoriented. I would be.
Of course there are other possibilities, but this seems likely - to me.

However he got his injuries, I'm not clear about why he wouldn't have asked one of the paramedics on scene to take a look - after they had done everything possible for TM, of course. Or asked the police to get him some medical attention, gone to the emergency room - something...
If I remember correctly, he went to his own doctor the next day, or shortly afterwards.
Based on how GZ stated he was hurt, it seems as if there could have been potentially very serious injuries that would warrant at least an emergency room visit. I'd think LE would insist he get immediate medical attention, just for liability reasons.
Just my opinion, and I apologize if this has already been mentioned.

With that in mind...how did GZ sustain injuries to the front and back of his head at the same time?

I asked my husband this last night and I am curious as to what you all think?

 

[cityslick]

I never said it would be beneficial medically.
There was no deformity on exam. No black eyes, no deviated septum, no trouble breathing. Just George's word for the cause and complaints of severe pain.

If George wants to state for a fact it was broken, he needs the x-ray.

Says who? I just linked that an xray is usually not used. If a DR or PA puts in a report that he did indeed have a closed fracture, I think the jury is going to buy that he had a closed fracture.

 

[Mollyandme]

And based on again, my common sense and what I know of the evidence (911 call from GZ and the witnesses that have taken the stand)...

Trayvon Martin was the one who felt his life was in danger. He was the one who was on the defensive first.

And the person who put that person on the defensive doesn't then get to turn around and say well I was defending myself, from that person defending myself.

It just doesn't work that way.

And before you ask what evidence I have of that...Trayvon Martin running away from this guy. That is when he was immediately on the defense.

I don't think there is anyone in the entire world except Trayvon would could tell me that didn't mean he wasn't scared...and even then, I would question that.

That's what "running away" means, in it's basic meaning. Of course, unless we are talking about a game of tag, which we aren't.

and based on my common sense, i disagree with you. i'm sure george was also scared when Trayvon was on top of him. Trayvon should have continued to the house he was staying in if he was truly terrified. based on the evidence, and rachel/dee dee's testimony, this didn't happen. imo, he was looking for a fight with george aka "cracker" using trayvon's own words. but i will agree to disagree

 

[Linda7NJ]

The report:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99022693/George-Zimmerman-Medical-Report

Note page 2 George lies and states EMT said his nose was broken.

 

[kaki]

I think the problem here is many posters seem to paint with a broad stroke brush.

My brother-in-law pushed me into an ordinary wall and my head hit right above my ear. The skin above my left ear split without a single scratch, abrasion or any other synonym. It required stitches and he only pushed me.

The year before that, he grabbed my sister by the face and repeatedly bashed her head into a concrete wall she was standing next to. Not a single scratch...she had a skull fracture and it never bled a single drop.

I think the human body is a magical thing and an injury may happen to one person and present itself as one thing and happen to another and look different.

I am still on the fence as to who/what I believe happened, but I think too many are stuck with their beliefs and assume a lot about who/what/where/when. I personally need more facts before I can judge the validity of either side.

I just hope we all make it through this with our sanity and wits about us. Happy posting all!

Me too..still on the fence and waiting to see more testimony and evidence. This is unlike any other trial i have followed on WS...for me anyway. Im not used to being on the fence..lol.

 

[cityslick]

If I had just killed a kid and was claiming the kid attacked me and injured me, and that I feared for my life/serious bodily injury he was beating me so badly, I'd get the most complete medical documentation available.

Maybe he felt he had, a report signed by a PA and photographs right after the incident showing a swollen nose.

 

[SassyMom]

There was no LE present. Her friend Francine wrote it for her.

To me that introduces doubt. Like who is Francine? When was the letter written? Who had she spoken to before the letter was written. And I don't even KNOW what's in the letter!

 

[m00c0w]

Not according to this article.

http://www./815308/trayvon-martins-father-viciously-attacks-zimmerman-supporter-in-court/

And had it not been for social media, and the small glimmer of hope it provided for Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, the story would have likely ended there. Just for a second, imagine that first day for his parents — not only do you learn no one had bothered to inform you of your high schooler’s shooting death despite the fact you lived blocks away from the crime scene, but the man known to be responsible had already been questioned and released.

The article got it wrong, then.

The divorcees lived near each other in Miami Gardens, according to the Miami Herald. Tracy Martin made a living for himself as a truck driver. Fulton worked as a Miami-Dade government employee, the newspaper reported.​

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/03/26/who-are-trayvon-martins-parents-they-killed-my-son

 

[m00c0w]

Note page 2 George lies and states EMT said his nose was broken.

In your opinion.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

With that in mind...how did GZ sustain injuries to the front and back of his head at the same time?

I asked my husband this last night and I am curious as to what you all think?

TM's fists in front punching him, concrete sidewalk behind his head imo

 

[TexMex]

I never said anything about forged documents, but how could they tell a bone was broken without an x-ray?

Broken bones can be detected upon physical exam.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zim...ds-light-injuries-trayvon/t/story?id=16353532


The ABC news report references a report by a general physician the morning after the incident

"The doctor notes...."

I diagnose dogs/cats with broken legs/toes/tail every week. An X-ray is a nice diagnostic tool but not imperative to diagnosis.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

This judge is really something. So anti-defense it's like she can't hide it.

 

[cityslick]

Note page 2 George lies and states EMT said his nose was broken.

It's not a lie if EMT actually told him that. Expect the EMT to be called to the stand to testify to that.