George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[Linda7NJ]

Is there a reason you repeatedly ignore my posts about this?

George was on the phone another 90 seconds after that happened.

If he was returning to his vehicle, he clearly would have been inside of it long before he ever hung up with 911. And he would have been sitting in it when officers arrived. And he wouldn't have had to tell the 911 operator to have police call him since he didn't know where he would be since he was still out looking for Trayvon.

I don't know how anyone can dispute this. It's a fact!!

But more than 2 minutes after hanging up with 911, he was still far from his vehicle. Again, it's a fact!

If GZ was headed back to his car and that's when he was jumped, wouldn't he have still been on the phone with 911...and more importantly, near his car since it was only 20 seconds later that he was supposedly headed back to his car???

I really wish you could explain this, since I personally have typed it what feels like at least 10 times, and so have others.

It's undisputable ! George wasn't headed back to his vehicle.

 

[ncgramma]

Is it just me, or is this judge blocking the defense from, basically, putting on their case? Why all this hassle about playing the audio back in front of the jury? ESPECIALLY since there is a real possibility that DeeDee's reading skills might be lacking?

 

[SDT]

TM's fists in front punching him, concrete sidewalk behind his head imo

I agree with you.

I was just curious as to many posting that he fell in bushes or slipped because it was raining how they came to the conclusion of a fall with injuries to the front and back of his head.

 

[corundogs]

I totally agree with the whole blaming the victim stuff. Here is my concern... if, according to RJ, TM was right by the back of dad's gf's townhouse how is it this confrontation took place 700ft away back towards where GZ's truck was?

It's not 700 feet. It's 70 yards. From my understanding anyway.

That's only 210 feet.

George's car was about the same distance away that the townhouse was.

So the same can be said...why wasn't George by his vehicle, which in his statement, he said he was.

That "back area" where they were in fact includes the townhome in question.

He was in the back of the units. That path they were on is the same path the townhome is on.

Trayvon ran. We know this as a fact, from GZ's own words. We don't know where he ran. We will never know because he can't tell us.

However, IMO, him running means that he was on the defensive.

 

[SassyMom]

Note page 2 George lies and states EMT said his nose was broken.

I smacked my finger in a doorway walking through it one time. It hurt like hell, swelled up and I couldn't move it. I said I broke it. I even fashioned a lovely little home-made splint for it. Come to find out I'd jammed it. I don't believe I lied, as I believed I'd broken it.

 

[Moonie]

I volunteer at a high school. I can tell you being around teenagers all day, I can see why RJ thinks Treyvon would have told her he was going to confront the guy. I can actually hear him saying something to the effect of "I'm gonna take care of this ***" or something to that effect. He has been telling her to that point what was going on, why would it be hard to believe he would tell her he was going to take care of the guy?

I do believe they got into a fight, I'm not positive who started it. I think, IMO ONLY, that maybe George did confront him, possibly tried to grab him and a fight insued.

This is what I think happened also. I wish GZ would have just stayed in his vehicle. I hate that this all went down.

 

[Bernina]

What would an x-ray do with respect to a concussion? I certainly have not received X-rays when I was concussed.

...but if you walked into an Urgent Care or ER and said "My head was smashed into the concrete sidewalk numerous times" they would definitely X-ray if, after a hands on exam, they felt there were fractures, or cefalohematoma.

 

[SassyMom]

Is it just me, or is this judge blocking the defense from, basically, putting on their case? Why all this hassle about playing the audio back in front of the jury? ESPECIALLY since there is a real possibility that DeeDee's reading skills might be lacking?

In my opinion, she's been blocking the defense from the get go.

 

[eminent08]

Regarding imminent danger:
Turn the tables for an honest moment. In a world of serial predators, I pose a serious question: Would there be a “Stand Your Ground” defense if this were a 16 year old girl being pursued in the manner Trayvon was?

Considering that I do not believe that to be a threat of death or great bodily harm at that juncture (this is my opinion), she would have a duty to retreat under Florida law (this is fact).

As a person with three children, living in this world of predators, rapists, and kidnappers, if anyone pursued my children in the manner which Zimmerman did, I am sure my children would feel alarmed. And while they could they could try their luck with retreating, it is evident that Zimmerman was pursuing this child. (To note, in the Mickey Shunick case, she felt an obligation to fight for her life. She did not know what all of her predator's intentions were, and neither did Trayvon). IMO, if Trayvon were "Amanda," there would be no Stand Your Ground defense.

 

[katiewonders]

Somewhat off topic.

Katie...you have repeatedly called George Zimmerman (GZ) RZ.

Do you know something we don't? I think his father's name is Robert. Is George a nickname and you are using his given name?

I hope this doesn't come off as anything but curious - not antagonistic or condescending or corrective. I mean honestly none of those things!

No, I'm sorry, that was just a mini-vacation for my brain. I meant GZ, but I typed RZ. lol

 

[cityslick]

Cross is done.

 

[Beyond Belief]

All the testimony at the crucial time of "why are you following me" seems to get muddled. She has said various things which I think she isn't quite sure of and the lawyers are trying to make her own it by repeatedly asking the same questions over and over. imo

 

[DIBSY]

He does not specifically say he is hunting him though.

Because at that point, Trayvon had taken off and George lost him

He was following Trayvon for 11 seconds and after the dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that" he says "ok" and proceeds to return to his vehicle.

Here is the timeline:

http://gzdocs.com/documents/opening_graphics/timeline.jpg

Thank you very much. I really didn't expect GZ to admit he continued to track his victim.

 

[Bernina]

The 911 guy DID say on the stand that they don't give commands for liability reasons. I think he said, 'We don't need you to do that' which is different than 'Don't do that"

If NEN had said, "Head on, follow the suspect", they would have been sued, guaranteed.

 

[katiewonders]

GZ is not a reasonable person, IMO.
Off the top of my head, Diane Downs shot herself in the arm to validate her attacker story...
IMO

Taking one action to pull a trigger and bashing your head once on the concrete - ouch! - and continuing to do that over and over again are different, no? MOO

 

[Karmady]

In my opinion, she's been blocking the defense from the get go.

She's already been reversed once by the court of appeals in this case, and very recently in another. You'd think she'd be more careful, imo

 

[PaintingAnemone]

Then what else in your statement would change the meaning of the definition? That's what we're talking about here - how the word is defined. Quite simply, the source you used defined it as "Pursue in order to catch or catch up with".

They have included examples to assist in understanding this definition, but they use the word itself... Which cannot lend to defining the word.

They have included synonyms, which are synonyms. These are not definitions of the word, but words that are similar to the word. "Similar", as in not "equal to".


Which "other" definition does it fit?


I agree with you on this point...


You are correct. However, the wording that has been used is "chasing", or "chased". Clearly, these are not nouns, as they have a tense. You cannot conjugate nouns. You cannot simply apply the definition of the word as a noun to something that has been used as a verb. Therefore, the only definition that is applicable that you provided is that of "chase" in the predicate form.

If you want to start saying "Zimmerman went on a chase", that would be fine. So would "There was a chase". However, "Zimmerman chased Martin" is not.

Understand?

Not particulary, because if you look in any of half a dozen other dictionaries and get something like this:

transitive verb
1
a : to follow rapidly : pursue
b : hunt
c : to follow regularly or persistently with the intention of attracting or alluring

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pursue

What I understand is that you just spent a very long time talking in circles about intent only to come back to an argument that an armed GZ wasn't chasing someone because that would only be accurate if used as a noun instead of a verb, which isn't true. This isn't something I just made up for the heck of it. What GZ did absolutely qualifies as chasing.

 

[m00c0w]

...but if you walked into an Urgent Care or ER and said "My head was smashed into the concrete sidewalk numerous times" they would definitely X-ray if, after a hands on exam, they felt there were fractures, or cefalohematoma.

They would take CT scans, which is what I was getting at. An x-ray (traditional x-ray) itself cannot diagnose subdural hematomas, or the like.

If the facility did not have a CT machine (I'm not sure if many smaller practices do), that might explain the lack of such imaging.

 

[ncgramma]

I would hope that the letter written in cursive that the witness could not herself read was taken down in the presence of all necessary legal personnel. It's perfectly acceptable for someone who cannot write who is a witness to an alleged crime to dictate to a responsible party, but it's still not as 'good' as that person writing down their words themselves. I wonder if she cannot write at all. I don't think any law requires it to be written in cursive.

That must've been humiliating for her to have to admit she cannot read cursive writing in front of God and everybody. I hope people on the prosecution side realizes this girl needs some help in dealing with this whole situation and help her get it.

Breaks your heart, doesn't it. I could really go off on a whole lot of people, starting with teachers and working my way down through LE, etc. This child was embarrassed because either none of them gave a darn or they couldn't be bothered.

SassyMom, IIRC, DeeDee's friend helped her with the letter that she wrote to TM's Mom. She testified to that this morning (yesterday?) without anyone having to ask her.

 

[Donnareit]

Going to rephrase my question.

Is it normal for a 19 year old to get through the school system in FL ... to the 12th grade ...without ever having learned to read cursive writing? Is cursive writing still being taught?

Is this witness genuinely confused or combative?

TIA.

I score student academic achievement tests, and I've seen tens of thousands of handwriting samples from all over the country. Not all, but most, students even in the higher grades use a combination of printing/cursive. I once got all excited because the student's handwriting was so beautiful. It reminded me of the Declaration of Independence. Then I took a closer look. The student's writing was simply cursive with proper spelling and punctuation. It was just such a rare sight it overwhelmed me. :blushing: