George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[SassyMom]

You get the point, quit playing lawyer.

I'm sorry, I was responding to a post you made where you said 'Wrong' in response to another poster stating that what you said is not what GZ was told by the 911 dispatcher. I stated that on the stand this dispatcher stated unequivocally that they are instructed not to give commands. 'Don't follow him" would be a command.

You intimate I am parsing words, but to be honest, a lot of this trial is parsing words in a sense. I think everyone agrees, maybe I'm wrong, that there was a lot of miscommunication on the night of this event. GZ mistook TM for being an interloper, TM mistook GZ as someone intending to harm him. Maybe you think GZ intended to harm TM the moment he saw him, I don't really know.

But words do matter, and the dispatcher saying 'we really don't need you to do that' could mean to GZ that LE didn't want him to take any chances, but GZ believed he was acting as NW and therefore, doing what was expected. We don't know what TM thought, but it sounds like GZ did not think he was doing anything extrordinary or over the line.

 

[m00c0w]

From personal experience I mean all sorts of X-Ray happy...All imaging such as general X-Rays, CT Scans and the radio wave imaging of MRI: all viable for determining serious injuries.

As a result of iffy health, I know from experience how often X-rays of all types are pushed upon a person under observation. If there is even a shadow of doubt that serious injury has been done, X-Rays are par for the course.
Therefore, it's obvious to me ( as well as others ) that GZ wasn't considered to be seriously harmed in any fashion.

Admittedly, when I think of "x-rays", I only think of traditional x-rays. Thanks for explaining!

 

[PaintingAnemone]

Are we playing word games?

LOL, you noticed that, too? It seems like this whole thing has been an ongoing series of arguments along the lines of, in the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do not think it means what you think it means."

:giggle:

 

[legalmania]

"Don't need" is NOT a preference, it's a polite way of saying back off. It's irrelevant whether George identified himself as Neighborhood Watch or not because he had no authority to follow or anything else. I am Neighborhood Watch. You are not supposed to follow anyone, only to report suspicious crime to LE.

That is why the parents won the civil lawsuit. A preponderance of the evidence pointed to GZ being responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin.

 

[m00c0w]

LOL, you noticed that, too? It seems like this whole thing has been an ongoing series of arguments along the lines of, in the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do not think it means what you think it means."

:giggle:

I guess that's what happens when you don't have much to go on in terms of actual evidence. All we really have is Zimmerman's testimony, the testimony of witnesses, and the 911 call. All of these can be made to mean things to different people depending on how it's explained.

 

[Bernina]

They would take CT scans, which is what I was getting at. An x-ray (traditional x-ray) itself cannot diagnose subdural hematomas, or the like.

If the facility did not have a CT machine (I'm not sure if many smaller practices do), that might explain the lack of such imaging.

BBM. Ok, there's some confusion here, you are talking "traumatic Brain Injury", I am talking "blood or fluid between the scalp and skull" caused by an inward skull fracture. CT for one, X-ray for the other.

 

[cityslick]

That is why the parents won the civil lawsuit. A preponderance of the evidence pointed to GZ being responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin.

Did I miss this, there was a civil lawsuit?

 

[iluvmua]

I guess that's what happens when you don't have much to go on in terms of actual evidence. All we really have is Zimmerman's testimony, the testimony of witnesses, and the 911 call. All of these can be made to mean things to different people depending on how it's explained.

This is very very true

JMO

 

[TXN4LIFE]

Sorry if this sounds rude, but how long are some of you going to go back and forth on what the NEN's words meant, whether or not the nose was broken, if you have to have an xray to know.

Its obvious that minds are not going to be changed, so why keep arguing the point? I know this is a discussion forum, but can we discuss what is currently going on in the trial??

Take evidence as its offered and then discuss it?

 

[LinasK]

A person has the right to refuse medical care, the EMT cannot order them to the hospital if they are self aware.

This is true; however, it would always be documented that the person refused medical care. Especially if it were serious, like a bone protruding.
That tells me that the extent of George's injuries were made up and not that serious.

 

[Karmady]

After surviving Jodi Arias' trial, I am really grateful for a decisive judge.

Decisive is great. So long as the decisions are correct. Like I said, she's already been reversed twice in the past few weeks. Once in this case. I have a feeling there might be some more in her immediate future. jmo

 

[iluvmua]

Did I miss this, there was a civil lawsuit?

Remember when Trayvon Martin's parents sued the HOA and got over a million dollars?

That is the lawsuit.

 

[kaRN]

Which is exactly why, IMO Trayvon's Parents, Ben Crump etc. had to be with her in the room when she gave her depo/interview.

This whole trial is a farce and has been from the very beginning and the ONLY reason why he's be prosecuted is because of political reasons/race reasons.

JMO

The defense will have a field day when Ben Crump has to testify.

If GZ had been charged at the scene the way an african american man who had just shot a caucasian kid would have been, we wouldn't be here. The fact he wasn't is exactly what prompted people to rise up. Justice is supposed be blind to race and isn't always.

 

[legalmania]

Did I miss this, there was a civil lawsuit?

Yes the HOA for 1 million.

 

[SassyMom]

It's absolutely unbelievable. How in the world do we insure a defendant gets a fair hearing in our justice system if a judge is allowed to continue this way. I don't care what the verdict is in this case, I only care that the jury gets an accurate depiction of what happened. If a witness is allowed to be continually led and coached, (and in this case even by the judge) the jury is being blocked from hearing testimony. It's as simple as that.

It's not a secret that this trial is politically explosive, with a familiar narrative. This judge is concerned not just with following judicial procedure to ensure a fair trial for a defendant, but she has a reasonable fear that if he is found not guilty, there will be negative social consequences, and that is coloring her opinions imo.

I saw witnesses being led and lots and lots of what I considered relevant evidence quashed by the Jodi Arias judge in the interest of the defendant. I'm seeing it in reverse here, imo.

 

[DIBSY]

That is why the parents won the civil lawsuit. A preponderance of the evidence pointed to GZ being responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin.

True enough, the evidence against GZ is monumental.
A point that really made me cringe toward his character is when the chap who was by his side as he reported that he had just shot Trayvon Martin dead, was stunned at how non-chalant Zimmerman was about killing a young chap. The man said he reported it as if it was no big deal.

Which reminds me greatly of Scott Peterson, the wife/baby killer, who was cool as cucumber about her killing and that of his baby she was carrying. He had his defense attorney suggest that the baby wasn't even his. Cold as it gets. Total denial, like Zimmerman. Stone cold Guilty.:moo:

 

[I Must Break You]

This is true; however, it would always be documented that the person refused medical care. Especially if it were serious, like a bone protruding.
That tells me that the extent of George's injuries were made up and not that serious.

Always is a pretty big stretch. Former military and police here and seen numerous, numerous times when something should have been documented and it never was. Happens way more then you think.

 

[Karmady]

Did I miss this, there was a civil lawsuit?

There was a claim against the HOA and a declaratory judgment lawsuit involving the insurance company based on that claim. The case was not "won" in the sense that it was litigated. In fact, I'd bet the amount of the settlement that the agreement specifically says that none of the parties to the settlement admit liability. jmo

eta: I went back to the OP and no such thing happened. There was NO finding regarding the viability of the civil claim against the HOA. jmo

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Suspicious of what? Going to the store getting skittles and a drink? When you call 911 don't you usually wait for them to arrive so you can talk to them and tell them where you saw the perpetrator? When he called 911 he already had it in his mind this kid was up to no good. Not rightfully so.

Are you familiar with the case? There were burglaries in the area. They were committed by young black males. GZ was right to be suspicious of someone fitting this description standing around in someone's yard.

If he was concerned about a crime being committed, he reasonably may have followed TM to see where he was going to help LE. Pretty simple. I never understand why people intentionally (?) misrepresent the facts by saying GZ shot him because he was black, or that GZ thought going to the store was suspicious. Obviously not the case.

 

[ktgirl]

Nevermind.
Answered above.