George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

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True enough, the evidence against GZ is monumental.
A point that really made me cringe toward his character is when the chap who was by his side as he reported that he had just shot Trayvon Martin dead, was stunned at how non-chalant Zimmerman was about killing a young chap. The man said he reported it as if it was no big deal.

Which reminds me greatly of Scott Peterson, the wife/baby killer, who was cool as cucumber about her killing and that of his baby she was carrying. He had his defense attorney suggest that the baby wasn't even his. Cold as it gets. Total denial, like Zimmerman. Stone cold Guilty.:moo:

Name me all the evidence the state has against George

Why is his defense team either turning the state's witnesses into defense witnesses or shredding the testimony of every state witness that has taken the stand?

Why are you talking about Scott Peterson who deliberately wanted his wife dead and someone who was saving his own life?

JMO
 
LOL, you noticed that, too? It seems like this whole thing has been an ongoing series of arguments along the lines of, in the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do not think it means what you think it means."

:giggle:

Fortunately the non emergency 9-11 operator completely cleared it up, under oath, by saying they do not give instructions, only suggestions. No more confusion.
 
It's not a secret that this trial is politically explosive, with a familiar narrative. This judge is concerned not just with following judicial procedure to ensure a fair trial for a defendant, but she has a reasonable fear that if he is found not guilty, there will be negative social consequences, and that is coloring her opinions imo.

I saw witnesses being led and lots and lots of what I considered relevant evidence quashed by the Jodi Arias judge in the interest of the defendant. I'm seeing it in reverse here, imo.

No doubt.
 
What did George Zimmerman and his wife do for employment prior to the trial? Just wondering...not sure I ever read/heard what they did for work.
 
This is true; however, it would always be documented that the person refused medical care. Especially if it were serious, like a bone protruding.
That tells me that the extent of George's injuries were made up and not that serious.

I believe it was documented that he refused medical care at the hospital. We're getting hung up on the word 'serious'. Serious is in the eye of the beholder, especially if you are the one in fear while being hit. There may not be any fatal injuries being given, but that doesn't mean you are not in fear of receiving them. I believe the law addresses this.
 
LOL, you noticed that, too? It seems like this whole thing has been an ongoing series of arguments along the lines of, in the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do not think it means what you think it means."

:giggle:

That is one of my favorite quotes from the movie. I do think it's important for us to realize that none of us are GZ or TM, and we will never know what they were thinking in the moment. Not even GZ can recall EXACTLY what he was thinking, and while you and I and others can say what WE would think in that instance, that doesn't mean that anyone ELSE would think exactly the same way.
 
Are you familiar with the case? There were burglaries in the area. They were committed by young black males. GZ was right to be suspicious of someone fitting this description standing around in someone's yard.

If he was concerned about a crime being committed, he reasonably may have followed TM to see where he was going to help LE. Pretty simple. I never understand why people intentionally (?) misrepresent the facts by saying GZ shot him because he was black, or that GZ thought going to the store was suspicious. Obviously not the case.

He was standing, not breaking in, simply standing, what is suspicious about that? Helping LE, why does LE need help from GZ? GZ made a call, that was all he needed to do, make the call then let LE take it from there.
 
It's not a secret that this trial is politically explosive, with a familiar narrative. This judge is concerned not just with following judicial procedure to ensure a fair trial for a defendant, but she has a reasonable fear that if he is found not guilty, there will be negative social consequences, and that is coloring her opinions imo.

I saw witnesses being led and lots and lots of what I considered relevant evidence quashed by the Jodi Arias judge in the interest of the defendant. I'm seeing it in reverse here, imo.

Interesting. Many if not most trials are " politically explosive." Even when there are no racial overtones. Jury members have been threatened even when the perp and victim are both Caucasion.

Most Americans would gladly shoot a child rapist/killer than look at him or her and are livid and often demonstrative when or if the perp gets off

Albeit, since this trial is being held in The South , so to speak, there is more walking on eggs and p*ssyfooting. In California for instance, GZ would already be serving time for 2nd degree murder, if not 1st.
 
My first thought yesterday when I heard Rachel's last name and found out she was of Haitian descent was that English wasn't her first language.

Rachel reminds me a lot of a colleague I have who grew up in NYC. Her parents were Garifuna Hondurans. Her first language and language she mostly grew up using aside from at school was the Garifuna language (an Arawakan & Carib language with elements of French, Spanish & English). Her second language was Spanish, as she grew up in a Garifuna enclave within a Hisapnic community. Her third language, learned at school & from friends, was English. The friends generally spoke a type of English that was non-standard English.

This woman has a MA from a US university and is pursuing her PhD in a social science field. Her spoken English is still off, particularly subject-verb agreement. Her written English is still off if she writes quickly or on the spot; she has others who speak English as their first language re-read her written work. Her grammar reminds me a lot of Rachel's. (Although she does not use derogratory terms; I'm speaking soley about her grammatical English.)

This colleague can come off somewhat off-putting and like she has an attitude (although nothing like Rachel's) often when pressed to answer questions/speak English off the cuff. She also did not make friends with the class cohort right off of the bat. She didn't engage in conversation with us and many of us thought she thought she was better than us or had an attitude. In reality, I think it's because she 1) is unsure/not confident of her standard, academic, professional English and 2) she was often translating what was being said in her head from standard English to either the colloquial English she learned growing up from friends or Garifuna or Spanish and then translating her replies back in her head before saying them. If pressed for time or put on the spot, she resorted to her non-standard English full of subject-verb agreement issues and expressed a slight attitude.

I am glad someone else pointed out that Rachel probably doesn't speak English as the primary language at home and it wasn't her first language.

Thank god someone told her to answer with "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" today. That goes a long way and I wish the proescution would have worked with her on that or prepared her to do that before she testified yesterday. I'm really at a loss as to why this wasn't done before yesterday. Why didn't the prosecution work with her to prepare her better (as far as using "yes ma'am," "yes sir," toning down the attitude, etc.)?

Did you think the "yes sir's" were dripping with anger and sarcasm?
 
Maybe he didn't think TM would respond with "Hello good sir, thank you, but your concerns are not well met, for I am simply returning home."? He rightfully thought TM was suspicious and he called 9-11 for a reason. imo
Fine, but whether or not George was racially profiling him and assuming Trayvon was up to no good, George needed to leave it alone after calling it in to LE. No crime was in progress, yet... Neighborhood Watch doesn't have any more authority than a civic duty to report suspicious activities. George didn't listen. No matter how polite, non-assertive the dispatcher's response was- I personally would've been more direct and left out the "don't need", George disobeyed LE's intention and escalated it into a violent conflict. He is to blame for the death of TM!!!
 
Oh please, the lawyer is saying this witness can't be heard/understood?
 
There was a claim against the HOA and a declaratory judgment lawsuit involving the insurance company based on that claim. The case was not "won" in the sense that it was litigated. In fact, I'd bet the amount of the settlement that the agreement specifically says that none of the parties to the settlement admit liability. jmo

eta: I went back to the OP and no such thing happened. There was NO finding regarding the viability of the civil claim against the HOA. jmo

When an insurance company settles for that much it's because they know they're was liability there.
 
That is one of my favorite quotes from the movie. I do think it's important for us to realize that none of us are GZ or TM, and we will never know what they were thinking in the moment. Not even GZ can recall EXACTLY what he was thinking, and while you and I and others can say what WE would think in that instance, that doesn't mean that anyone ELSE would think exactly the same way.

True. Really, at this point, all that matters is what the jury thinks it means.
 
Just a reminder; Tricia's True Crime Radio show will air at 10:30 PM tonight . Sheryl McCollum is our guest.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213599"]Get more info by clicking this link[/ame]
 
Everyone seems to know teens who do all kinds of stuff that is somehow supposed to minimize/normalize things in this case. Teens who walk slow, teens who use racial slurs, {Mod Snip} teens who don't care about court/authority, teens who fight regularly, etc., teens failed by the education system. None of it excuses the disgraceful displays we've seen here imho, jmo.

Not to disagree about what should be because I don't but times change and we created the world our children live in the same way parents created the world kids rebelled from in the 60's.
It is what it is and change requires cooperation so we can strive for better for these young peoples babies. JMO
 
He was standing, not breaking in, simply standing, what is suspicious about that? Helping LE, why does LE need help from GZ? GZ made a call, that was all he needed to do, make the call then let LE take it from there.

Context, context, context... standing in someone's yard at night in the rain when you fit the description of people who have committed burglaries in the area is suspicious. Context is important. GZ didn't know if he had just broken into a place, was planning to, or none of the above, hence the call to non-emergency 9-11. LE needed help in getting a description of TM. He did nothing to warrant TM attacking him.
 
And bruised both the front and back of his head at the same time?


I was also thinking that since it was raining he could have very easily slipped and fell. Which I have done a few time myself.
 
Fine, but whether or not George was racially profiling him and assuming Trayvon was up to no good, George needed to leave it alone after calling it in to LE. No crime was in progress, yet... Neighborhood Watch doesn't have any more authority than a civic duty to report suspicious activities. George didn't listen. No matter how polite, non-assertive the dispatcher's response was- I personally would've been more direct and left out the "don't need", George disobeyed LE's intention and escalated it into a violent conflict. He is to blame for the death of TM!!!

So Trayvon's actions that caused George to fear for his life and use his gun to end the threat have no bearing?

JMO

If Trayvon would have not punched George in the face and started slamming his head into the sidewalk (which is illegal) he would still be alive.

Your talking like George wanted to kill Trayvon for no reason at all and there is NO evidence to back that up.

JMO
 
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