George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[Lovelymountains]

Actually I read, didn't BookMark the info, that TM's accounts on all social media were hacked into and altered, which was easy to spot since the uncharacteristic entries were made after his death.
Now, that is not to say he was any sort of angel. He was expelled from school on three occasions but unlike GZ, he did not have a criminal record, not even a juvenile one.

Plus I'm not sure if it's been brought up here...by me or anyone else, but as to negativity, GZ did poorly in school....with F's and D's and a few decent grades as well.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...cidentally-releases-private-docs-death-photo/

I think that after he complained about the ^&&^*% always getting away, and the difficulty he had with his ex-roommate ( posted on here ) that the bad grades may have been the last straw for him...all his complaints to LE had been fruitless....he sounded overcome with frustration. IMHO, he couldn't come up empty again, so he made sure he finallyhad a " trophy" that dark rainy night when he was carrying his gun on the hot trail of his suspect.

IMO that's a very good synopsis. Also like your avatar of the "Princes in the Tower."

 

[Sleuth5]

It was actually the Watermelon Fruit Juice that is made by the Arizona Ice tea company.

Not iced tea itself

http://www.local10.com/news/evidenc...uice/-/1717324/20683764/-/b5ehbu/-/index.html

Why does this matter?

 

[iluvmua]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html

(From March 26, 2012)

 

[Lovelymountains]

yes let's - wasn't he expelled from school?

someone posted earlier on TM's past - I think it was Nezumi :
......................
the Facebook and Twitter content of TM is absolutely relevant to understanding the person that GZ encountered that night. Far from being the sweet faced 12 year old depicted in the photos provided by the family and their lawyer to the media, he was a recreational drug user and underage drinker who, by his own admission, was involved in multiple assaults of others and who was in the process of trying to illegally obtain a weapon. If I'm not mistaken, THC was found in his system at autopsy. He had been expelled from school and kicked out of his mother's home and sent to live with his father when she could no longer control him.

I find it interesting that we have had so many conversations about the value and accuracy of our personal intuition in so many other cases yet no one is prepared to give GZ the benefit of his intuition.
................

But we aren't using it to kill anyone. What we say here does not affect the outcome of anything.

 

[m00c0w]

Does anyone know why he would want to accuse his own witness of bias in favor of the defense? If he thought she was biased, why didn't he simply not call her as a witness?

Perhaps because she wasn't giving him the answers he wanted, so he'd impeach her instead. I'm not sure.

 

[TorisMom003]

I didn't want to state this before cause I know it could be considered inflammatory. I accept it might get deleted (hopefully not a time out!)

A young black man calling 911. It just ain't gonna happen. I just don't see it happening. There are way too many people who have ended up in custody from law enforcement for doing absolutely nothing but being in the presence of law enforcement.

There is a very strong built in distrust of law enforcement in young black men.

I am going to take this post one step further if you don't mind. Trayvon Martin's father's girlfriend lives in Sanford, is a black woman and has a young black son herself. I am sure that she knew of the racial tensions between the black community and the Sanford Police Department long before the shooting and killing of Trayvon Martin. When one lives in an area where the police have shown a prejudice against the black community then one is more likely to tell ones black child to NOT call the same police department that has that bias. I also feel sure that the girlfriend told Tracy Martin about this issue with the Sanford Police Department. This is another reason why it is highly unlikely that Trayvon would have called 911 himself when he was being followed, first in a vehicle and then on foot, by an unknown white/Hispanic male.

Moo
link to article concerning the long past of racial issues between the Sanford Police Department and the black community.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Hi...acks/-/1637132/9692676/-/13vv8qr/-/index.html

 

[DIBSY]

What was Trayvon's self defense? Concrete?

JMO

Absolutely not. IMO that was invented by GZ to save his, er, bacon. :twocents: Particularly since there wasn't any concrete anywhere near when the confrontation allegedly took place. My theory is that GZ received the minor head scratches when he fell into the bushes near the T.

 

[JudyBolton]

I want to see school records @ this point before I believe anything.

There is a lot of controversy about how the school handled crime and evidence such as the stolen jewelry. If you are interested - google TM and Captain Hurley..... (in my opinion this is yet ANOTHER example of low expectations and how it has affected our youth)

 

[JudyBolton]

Absolutely not. IMO that was invented by GZ to save his, er, bacon. :twocents: Particularly since there wasn't any concrete anywhere near when the confrontation allegedly took place. My theory is that GZ received the minor head scratches when he fell into the bushes near the T.

There wil be a DT EYE (not ear) witness - who saw GZ being assaulted.

 

[m00c0w]

Absolutely not. IMO that was invented by GZ to save his, er, bacon. :twocents: Particularly since there wasn't any concrete anywhere near when the confrontation allegedly took place. My theory is that GZ received the minor head scratches when he fell into the bushes near the T.

I've asked this before (not to you, I believe) and I'm not sure I got a response.

If someone was chasing you, as others allege Zimmerman was doing to Martin, and that individual fell onto the sidewalk, into the grass, into some bushes, up against a fence or whatever else there is to fall on... Would you leave the area, approach the man, or stay where you are?

I'm pretty sure I'd take advantage and get the heck out of dodge.

 

[iluvmua]

Why does this matter?

This is important because the media since day 1 have been spreading misinformation about this entire case.

It has been widely reported that he went to the store to get Arizona Iced Tea When it in fact is actually the Watermelon Fruit Juice drink that he got.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/03/22/skittles-speak-out-trayvon-martin-deeply-saddened

(look at the HLN headline)

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

Trayvon was an unarmed black teenager who had committed no crime, they say, who was gunned down while walking back from a 7-Eleven with nothing more sinister than a package of Skittles and can of Arizona iced tea.

 

[?noanswer]

Does anyone know why he would want to accuse his own witness of bias in favor of the defense? If he thought she was biased, why didn't he simply not call her as a witness?

BBM

She was his witness. After the defense crossed her, he did a recross and at that time asked to do a proffer of her. That is when he tried to show that she was following GZ's brother on twitter. Turns out the brother was listed as a follower on her twitter account and IIRC, her account showed that she had never posted on twitter. Said she didn't understand how it works, but she seemed to be a very good witness, no matter which side was questioning.

JMO

 

[iluvmua]

Absolutely not. IMO that was invented by GZ to save his, er, bacon. :twocents: Particularly since there wasn't any concrete anywhere near when the confrontation allegedly took place. My theory is that GZ received the minor head scratches when he fell into the bushes near the T.

Ok, my opinion is that he acted in self defense.

JMO

 

[popsicle]

I don't believe TM did that voluntarily. I think GZ grabbed some part of TM's body and pulled him back, maybe threatening him with the gun. I think GZ intended to hold him until the police came because "They always get away."
I think at some point TM resisted being illegally held and the shooting occured. I do not see any way there could have been no injuries on TM except the small cut on his left ring finger and the gunshot wound if it occurred as GZ claims. No scrapes on his knuckles, nothing.

Pulled him back 700ft to the north??

 

[JudyBolton]

I had to leave for several hours today. Has anyone posted a list of state witnesses? Or do we know how many are still slated to testify? Thanks!

 

[DIBSY]

But we aren't using it to kill anyone. What we say here does not affect the outcome of anything.

Thanks for that, plus I have posted links to refute the majority of what was alleged against TM...such as his social accounts getting hacked by a White Supremeist:

http://gawker.com/5897485/white-sup...n-martins-email-account-leaks-messages-online

We can't forget either that GZ has a history of violence, even against LE.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite

 

[Karmady]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...or-angela-corey-chief-bill-lee-arrest-warrant

(This is regarding manslaughter) It does not say if the state put manslaughter on the table.

IMO, it seems the state went directly for 2nd degree murder

They did. Manslaughter is potentially a lesser included charge, but only if the Judge charges it. I think she'll be charging it this time, since that's an issue in one of the cases the Court of Appeals reversed her on on May 31. The self-defense discussion starts on page 7.

http://www.5dca.org/Opinions/Opin2013/052713/5D12-796.op.pdf

quote from the link:

After taking away Spurgeon's most viable affirmative defense - self-defense- the trial court compounded the error by giving the State's requested special jury instruction titled "Involuntary Medical Examination," pursuant to section 401.445, Florida Statutes. We decline to address the validity of giving this instruction because Spurgeon did not argue it was error on appeal. However, we note that if DenDekker was not acting in the lawful performance of her duties either because section 401.445 was inapplicable or because she used unreasonable force against Spurgeon while restraining him, the court should have granted Spurgeon’s requested instruction on the justifiable use of non-deadly force. Failing to do so effectively negated Spurgeon's theory of self-defense

 

[Sleuth5]

That doesn't negate the possibility that GZ did strike or do anything else to his GF. He took the anger management classes to have the charges dropped. He PAID for those classes. It's a common plea agreement the Prosecutor will offer for a 1st time offense where major physical trauma has not occurred.
Been there, done that, neighbor who jumped my fence and was creeping around my property was confronted by me AFTER he jumped back over to his side, he threatened to shove my Mag Lite up my a$$ and then went on to threaten neighbors who had come to my aid. He was charged, made a plea agreement with the Pro, w/o my knowledge, and went to anger management. It does NOT mean he did not threaten me or my neighbors. Or that he was intoxicated, had his sidearm, and was trespassing.
He later went on to assault my BF several years later, and racked up other charges with other neighbors.......IMO, it sets up a pattern.
Reduction of charge, or dropped for diversion program does NOT mean GZ didn't commit the crime initially charged.

Important points, and thank you for bringing that example up, Bernina.

 

[DIBSY]

Ok, my opinion is that he acted in self defense.

JMO

Viva the difference and many thanks for the nice discussion.:seeya:

 

[Sleuth5]

I don't know if that means reckless driver, but it would certainly indicate a chronic case of lead foot.

*also raises hand* Guilty!:blushing:

Having said that, if someone pointed to my driving record and said I had a history of driving too fast, that would be entirely accurate, just as repeated assaults create a history.

Guilty. :blushing: What's more, it's an especially good point because my driving record only indicates the times I was actually caught speeding. Were I to have been caught every time, I certainly wouldn't have a license anymore.