George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

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I don't agree with your first statement.

The rest of it, I absolutely agree with!

I think this is a manslaughter case, and based on what I have heard, that is an option.

If GZ is convicted of manslaughter, would the sentence potentially be longer than usual because the killing occurred with a firearm? I tried to find the info, but couldn't. TIA.
 
There is more evidence than that, most of which hasn't come in yet. Let's wait and see how all this plays out.

I'll reach my own conclusions, but thanks. I reject the idea of him inflicting the injuries on himself, so TM must have done it. I feel like we're getting into theories that are just unlikely. I believe this is quite simple.
 
It should have been humiliating for her! She's 19 and still in 12th grade. If she can't read (or write) in cursive, it's her own fault, nobody else's. She doesn't need any special 'help' in dealing with the situation. My tax dollars shouldn't be spent to psychoanalyze and counsel her. It's clear that she's simply not interested in our justice system. She's lazy and that's her own fault.

I have to say, completely unrelated to this post... I just had vivid mental imagery of Juan Martinez careening around in a huge Mac truck, ramming it through tiny openings. :floorlaugh:
 
Actually I think it is, there are witnesses placing TM on top of GZ and photographic evidence of his injuries. it's reasonable to use a little common sense about what we know so far.

And other witnesses and George's own words that he was on top of Trayvon.
 
Ex County employee on heavy meds suffering from depression has a permit and a gun in his pocket.

Which are both questions asked on the CCW application. So either he lied or someone covered for him. In either case, those instances should lead to the revocation of his permit. You should call the state licensing department.
 
You are the voice of reason yes. I agree with you here. I think honestly they got into a fight and GZ used his gun because he was losing the fight. A kid is dead because of two people GZ and TM who assumed each one wanted to hurt the other. SAD situation.

I agree. They both had a couple of different chances to STOP the whole episode. With George wanting to "get these people who keep breaking in our neighborhood" and Trayvon on this mission that no creepy cr. is going to follow him, they were on a collision path. I wish it had turned out differently, but bad decisions on both sides. JMO
 
JMO.....this whole "GZ hit his girlfriend" has me concerned. The jury is 6 women and if they hear that, they will feel as I do - at this moment, I despise him (and I was leaning towards not guilty). If he hit a woman, and I don't know any of the facts yet, he's dead to me (not literally but you get it).

His charges were dropped..... every single one.

This is a fact and the defense has the records to prove it.

He took anger management classes.
 
I don't check in often on this case, it just really makes me so uneasy, as I believe it has become something much more than it actually is, due to media sensationalism and lot of bias on both side. I am glad that it is playing out in court, where we can see letter by letter what the evidence shows.

At this point, it boils down to me as a perfect example of how misunderstandings can go awry. It seems to me that perhaps both parties are at fault here. Here is what I mean, based soley on what I have read:

GZ-while well-meaning to protect his neighborhood, I think he may have gone too far with so many calls to 911, etc...and likely became hyper-vigilant. In other words, his sense of paranoia was far beyond what should be reasonably expected from a typical, non-LE person.

TM-even though his baby-faced photos have been repeatedly shown on TV, this is not what he appeared as a 17 year old. He was taller, more muscular and far more imposing a figure than what we see on TV. I can't imagine that a 17 year old boy like TM could possibly be so intimidated by this older, shorter, less in-shape man. It is apparent from his phone conversation that while TM believed he was being followed, that he did not seem fearful of the man. Instead he called the man 2 racial slurs and confronted him.

I also do not think that GZ started the scuffle. I do not believe he intended to use his weapon in any other way than self-defense, and he certainly wouldn't want to tangle with a taller, younger guy. I firmly believe that TM reacted to GZ in a threatening and menacing way and likely provoked the physical part of the altercation.

I believe that GZ was at that point engaged in a physical fight with TM and was losing. You can see the injuries to the back of his head and his nose. TM would certainly have had the upper hand in this fight-I am not sure how anyone can doubt that.

After that, I am really not sure. GZ says that TM saw the gun, said he would die that night and then tried to take it away from him. I'm not sure how much all of that sits with me. That's kind of a lot to happen in a very short window of time-noticing the gun, saying all of those words, going for the gun and then GZ able to access the gun quicker while on the ground in a position of weakness. I do realize that sometimes things happen very fast. I also wonder who things would have turned out if TM would have been able to get that gun instead. Would he have used it to shoot GZ? Would he have held it on him and called police? Would he have just run away? I'm not real sure.

I do know, however, that GZ stayed at the scene and cooperated fully with LE and has never changed his story from the get-go.

It is my opinion, at this point, until I see further that this was an incident of self-defense that was recognized early on by LE. But the media onslaught that occurred afterwards put them in the position as to have no other choice but to prosecute GZ with everything they have.

It's a big burden to prove that GZ intended to kill anyone that night. I do believe he was somewhat reckless and paranoid in his pursuit of TM. And I also believe that some sort of conviction and punishment be had-but I am thinking reckless homicide, or something to that effect. But I am afraid that there are those who will not be satisfied unless GZ goes down with a charge of M1 or at least M2 and goes to jail for the rest of his life.

I am scared to post my opinions on this or even state them publicly for fear of being called a racist or something. This case is so racially charged it is completely out of control. I am truly afraid of where the verdict will take us regardless of what it is because there is just so much passion on both sides of the fence.

Please keep in mind that this is just my opinion at this time and my opinion only.
 
JMO.....this whole "GZ hit his girlfriend" has me concerned. The jury is 6 women and if they hear that, they will feel as I do - at this moment, I despise him (and I was leaning towards not guilty). If he hit a woman, and I don't know any of the facts yet, he's dead to me (not literally but you get it).

Which would be a travesty if they use emotion in place of logic. I wish they could hear about TM's background.
 
Dispatchers are not police officers. The "police" didn't tell GZ any such thing.
Dispatchers are agents of the police, so yeah LE did want GZ to stop following TM. They didn't want the situation escalating to deadly force as it happened. Just because the dispatcher used the words "don't need" doesn't mean GZ had LE's go ahead to pursue Trayvon!
 
If GZ is convicted of manslaughter, would the sentence potentially be longer than usual because the killing occurred with a firearm? I tried to find the info, but couldn't. TIA.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.07.html

It looks like not, however they may be able to convict of aggravated manslaughter depending on the jury instructions.

If he is convicted, he will never be allowed to own a firearm again, though, as a felon.
 
His charges were dropped..... every single one.

This is a fact and the defense has the records to prove it.

He took anger management classes.

Dropped because they were untrue, or because they were beating on each other? Somehow I don't see GZ hitting his wife (I forgot her name).

I hope the charges were untrue, as they are extremely inflammatory if the jury hears them.
 
I was going based on a map that I saw on a link a few pages back. It had "his house" marked. To me it looked to be down near the end of the row of houses and on the opposite side of the sidewalk to where the incident happened. So IMO it looked like a long diagonal track away from where he said he was.

ETA: When I say long I don't mean 1/2 a mile or a 5 minute walk or anything just that it wouldn't be close enough for me to think he was "right beside the house". That to me would say with in an apartment/house or two of his.

http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/...e-zimmerman-map-911-call-timing-v-2.jpg?w=584
 
Hi Everyone,

If you are going to use a newspaper article to bolster you opinion please make sure you have a link to that article.

It is extremely important that we are able to source the things we say unless we are expressing an opinion only. If this is the case please post, "IMO" or, "In My Opinion." That's all we need.

Thank you,
Tricia

This is the article I reffered to in my previous post:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425


Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

I too am outraged by "profiling" but if statistics bear out this neighbor lady's statement, GZ had every reason to be watching A stranger in that demographic that night. This is not a profiling case. Just common sense. How the fight began is where the discussion should start IMO.
 
Medication for what? If the individual has been adjudicated mentally defective, they are forbidden by federal law from possessing a firearm period. Much less a carry permit for such.

The threshold to be considered mentally defective is extremely high.

But, (IMO), GZ had a history of violent behavior, including resisting an officer and there was a DV protection order in place for him. Should he have had a gun, much less a conceal carry license? IMO, no. But that's another topic completely.
 
I'll reach my own conclusions, but thanks. I reject the idea of him inflicting the injuries on himself, so TM must have done it. I feel like we're getting into theories that are just unlikely. I believe this is quite simple.

Sure, we all do. I don't think he inflicted those injuries on himself either. He had neither the time nor the opportunity.
 
As of now, I believe the state has no case and I have no idea if they just went for murder 2nd degree or if they included manslaughter...... but 2nd degree is overcharging if you ask me.

JMO

We have something to agree on then! LOL!!

Someone make sure the sky isn't falling or something? hehehe!!!!!!

I too feel 2nd Degree is most likely overcharging.

I will have to be 100% convinced otherwise.
 
Dropped because they were untrue, or because they were beating on each other? Somehow I don't see GZ hitting his wife (I forgot her name).

I hope the charges were untrue, as they are extremely inflammatory if the jury hears them.

This will all come out when the defense gets the ex girlfriend and undercover officer (s) on the stand.

IMO
 
My dad and I were discussing this trial this afternoon and the following is the story he relayed to me:

My parents live in a very nice neighborhood, right around the corner from my residence. Their subdivision has had a murder, a rape & multiple break ins (including his own) There is a shady neighborhood that has a gate into his neighborhood and there is speculation that this is where the offenders live.

My dad knows every neighbor that lives in his neighborhood. He knows what cars belong and what cars do not. He said that when he sees a suspicious person (by suspicious, I mean a person that doesn't live there) walking in his neighborhood, he has stood in the middle of the street to see where they were going or what they are doing. Many times he has approached them and asked what they were doing in his neighborhood or where they were going. Nine times out of ten they are going to the adjacent neighborhood. My dad is not looking for a fight, he is simply being a good neighbor by making sure no more violence happens in his neighborhood.

Listening to my dad, comparing it with this story.... I can see how George was just trying to be a good neighbor protecting his neighborhood.

I still am on the fence regarding this trial but, my dad also said that once you have a crime committed on your block, every person that does not belong becomes suspect in your eyes.

IMO.....
 
Which would be a travesty if they use emotion in place of logic. I wish they could hear about TM's background.

I was just saying how it affected me having just heard this news. Luckily, I'm not on the jury! I've said here many times, I think both men misbehaved that night. Unfortunately, it ended tragically, either man could have been killed that night.
 
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