George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[lil_buddy]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/23/3413343/

Wasn't TM suspended for fistfighting (aka violent assault) and texted friends about an after school assault/fight?

One of Trayvon’s cellphone pictures shows two teens about to square off against one another as a third stands in the middle like a referee. Trayvon said he fought a rival who “snitched on me.”

Trayvon: “I lost da 1st round but won da 2nd nd 3rd.”

Friend: “Ohhh So It Wass 3 Rounds? Damn well at least yu wonn lol but yuu needa stop fighting.”

Trayvon: “Nay im not done with fool….. he gone hav 2 see me again.”

Friend: “Nooo… Stop, yuu waint gonn bee satisified till yuh suspended again, huh?”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/...ghts-and-guns-trayvon-text.html#storylink=cpy

This contradicts that TM was suspended for fighting:
"Martin had been suspended from school at the time of his death, his third disciplinary suspension of the year.[44] One suspension was for tardiness. Another suspension was for graffiti, when Martin was observed by a security camera in a restricted area of the school marking up a door with "W.T.F." When he was later searched by a Miami-Dade School Police Department officer, looking for the graffiti marker, the officer found several pieces of women's jewelry in his backpack, which Martin said were not his, stating a friend had given them to him. A screwdriver was also found, which was described by the school police investigator as a burglary tool. The jewelry was impounded and given to the police, but no evidence ever surfaced to indicate that the jewelry was stolen. Martin's third suspension involved a marijuana pipe, and an empty bag containing marijuana residue. Martin was not charged with any crime related to these incidents and did not have a juvenile record.[44][45][46][47][48] Judge Nelson ruled that the defense may have access to Martin's records, including the details of these suspensions, as well as access to Martin's social media sites,[49] but ruled they will not be admissible as evidence during the trial unless they can be shown to be relevant.[50]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Trayvon_Martin

I want to see school records @ this point before I believe anything.

 

[lisalei321]

Did the state include manslaughter charges as well? or just 2nd degree murder charges?

I believe manslaughter is included as well.

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[magnolia]

This guy needs to educate himself about Twitter. The prosecutor thought he had a "gotcha" moment. Epic fail.

I got a chuckle out if it myself. :giggle:

 

[Bernina]

There are several things wrong with this. For one, police reports are not generally allowable in court as they're considered hearsay. The actual person would be compelled to testify, and the police report may be used to impeach their own testimony, but a police report on its face is generally not allowed.

"Prior bad acts" are also excluded as evidence towards character under US FRE 404.

I'm not entirely sure how the conclusion was reached that the prosecution can use things of that nature, but they cannot for the purpose of impeaching character.

I did not write they would be used "in court". "ALL those reports are going to hit the Pro's desk".

 

[iluvmua]

This contradicts that TM was suspended for fighting:
"Martin had been suspended from school at the time of his death, his third disciplinary suspension of the year.[44] One suspension was for tardiness. Another suspension was for graffiti, when Martin was observed by a security camera in a restricted area of the school marking up a door with "W.T.F." When he was later searched by a Miami-Dade School Police Department officer, looking for the graffiti marker, the officer found several pieces of women's jewelry in his backpack, which Martin said were not his, stating a friend had given them to him. A screwdriver was also found, which was described by the school police investigator as a burglary tool. The jewelry was impounded and given to the police, but no evidence ever surfaced to indicate that the jewelry was stolen. Martin's third suspension involved a marijuana pipe, and an empty bag containing marijuana residue. Martin was not charged with any crime related to these incidents and did not have a juvenile record.[44][45][46][47][48] Judge Nelson ruled that the defense may have access to Martin's records, including the details of these suspensions, as well as access to Martin's social media sites,[49] but ruled they will not be admissible as evidence during the trial unless they can be shown to be relevant.[50]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Trayvon_Martin

I want to see school records @ this point before I believe anything.

Trayvon Martin's family had them sealed. (actually the state had them sealed, but they (parents) did not want them to be released).

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...cles/cfn/2012/10/19/george_zimmerman_to_.html

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2012/10/9/trayvon_martin_s_par.html

Trayvon Martin's parent's attorney Benjamin Crump issued a statement on behalf of the teen's parents:

"Trayvon’s parents maintain that his school records and Facebook page are completely irrelevant to George Zimmerman’s decision to get out of his car to profile, pursue, and shoot their son in the heart on February 26, 2012. How does George Zimmerman’s review of Trayvon Martin’s high school and middle school records and Facebook page bear any relevance to Zimmerman’s decision to pull the trigger and kill a seventeen year old child? Is this going to be a new legal standard we are setting- for a murderer to review the school records and Facebook page of his teenage victim to determine whether or not he should have killed him?”

 

[m00c0w]

I got a chuckle out if it myself. :giggle:

What exactly happened? I think I missed that part.

 

[redheadedgal]

I didn't want to state this before cause I know it could be considered inflammatory. I accept it might get deleted (hopefully not a time out!)

A young black man calling 911. It just ain't gonna happen. I just don't see it happening. There are way too many people who have ended up in custody from law enforcement for doing absolutely nothing but being in the presence of law enforcement.

There is a very strong built in distrust of law enforcement in young black men.

chris brown's 911 call (for being allegedly stalked no less):

http://www.tmz.com/2013/03/10/chris-brown-car-accident-porsche-911-call-paparazzi-christopher/


hasn't CB also had multiple run-ins with the law? (beating rihanna's face to a pulp?) but despite that, he's not distrustful of police it seems...

 

[m00c0w]

I did not write they would be used "in court". "ALL those reports are going to hit the Pro's desk".

Then what difference does it make, as it relates to this case?

I cannot find my post, but the context was with regards to past charges being brought up in court to show a pattern of actions.

Also, your "and you're looking at a stiffer sentence" commentary implies that it has some impact on your trial. I don't believe the prosector defines sentences, does he?

 

[LinasK]

It doesn't matter, he still lives there if he would of saw a crime, it's not like he's going to look the other way. He wasn't just an average resident, he was part of the NW, he had been conditioned to look to what he percieved as trouble.

Okay, once again, I am Neighborhood Watch for my block. I am a volunteer. I do NOT patrol and have never received training. I am not "conditioned" to look for trouble!!!

 

[corundogs]

chris brown's 911 call (for being allegedly stalked no less):

http://www.tmz.com/2013/03/10/chris-brown-car-accident-porsche-911-call-paparazzi-christopher/


hasn't CB also had multiple run-ins with the law? (beating rihanna's face to a pulp?) but despite that, he's not distrustful of police it seems...

You are really comparing Chris Brown to some random kid off the street?

If that's the way you feel...that's the way you feel.

However, it just goes to show that people can justify anything if they look hard enough.

 

[m00c0w]

Okay, once again, I am Neighborhood Watch for my block. I am a volunteer. I do NOT patrol and have never received training. I am not "conditioned" to look for trouble!!!

Is this to say that all NW programs are the same, that Zimmerman had not received any training from anyone (even thought they were on the witness stand?) and that everyone acts exactly like you with respect to their NW duties?

 

[Colt46]

Regarding the screams: Is there any report, written or oral, of GZ telling police/investigators immediately after the altercation, and before he heard the 911 call with the screams. that he was screaming for help? I, for one, believe it was Trayvon. GZ was too calm, cool and collected immediately after the killing. The voice we heard was that of a hysterical person - someone in fear for his life. Also sounded like a younger person. Just my $.02.

 

[DIBSY]

yes let's - wasn't he expelled from school?

someone posted earlier on TM's past - I think it was Nezumi :
......................
the Facebook and Twitter content of TM is absolutely relevant to understanding the person that GZ encountered that night. Far from being the sweet faced 12 year old depicted in the photos provided by the family and their lawyer to the media, he was a recreational drug user and underage drinker who, by his own admission, was involved in multiple assaults of others and who was in the process of trying to illegally obtain a weapon. If I'm not mistaken, THC was found in his system at autopsy. He had been expelled from school and kicked out of his mother's home and sent to live with his father when she could no longer control him.

I find it interesting that we have had so many conversations about the value and accuracy of our personal intuition in so many other cases yet no one is prepared to give GZ the benefit of his intuition.
................

Actually I read, didn't BookMark the info, that TM's accounts on all social media were hacked into and altered, which was easy to spot since the uncharacteristic entries were made after his death.
Now, that is not to say he was any sort of angel. He was expelled from school on three occasions but unlike GZ, he did not have a criminal record, not even a juvenile one.

Plus I'm not sure if it's been brought up here...by me or anyone else, but as to negativity, GZ did poorly in school....with F's and D's and a few decent grades as well.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...cidentally-releases-private-docs-death-photo/

I think that after he complained about the ^&&^*% always getting away, and the difficulty he had with his ex-roommate ( posted on here ) that the bad grades may have been the last straw for him...all his complaints to LE had been fruitless....he sounded overcome with frustration. IMHO, he couldn't come up empty again, so he made sure he finallyhad a " trophy" that dark rainy night when he was carrying his gun on the hot trail of his suspect.

 

[Nezumi]

What exactly happened? I think I missed that part.

He was going to accuse her a bias in favor of the defense because he checked her Twitter page and GZ's name appeared in one of the suggested follow columns. She wasn't following him or anyone else. She just (apparently) did what I did and that was open a twitter account but never uses it. She doesn't follow anyone and has never tweeted. He really quite embarrassed himself.

 

[Nezumi]

Actually I read, didn't BookMark the info, that TM's accounts on all social media were hacked into and altered, which was easy to spot since the uncharacteristic entries were made after his death.
Now, that is not to say he was any sort of angel. He was expelled from school on three occasions but unlike GZ, he did not have a criminal record, not even a juvenile one.

Plus I'm not sure if it's been brought up here...by me or anyone else, but as to negativity, GZ did poorly in school....with F's and D's and a few decent grades as well.

I think that after he complained about the ^&&^*% always getting away, and the difficulty he had with his ex-roommate ( posted on here ) that the bad grades may have been the last straw for him...all his complaints to LE had been fruitless....he sounded overcome with frustration. IMHO, he couldn't come up empty again, so he made sure he finallyhad a " trophy" that dark rainy night when he was carrying his gun on the hot trail of his suspect.

So, you can't actually substantiate in any way anything you just posted?

 

[lisalei321]

yes, at least three times

Link please?

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[iluvmua]

Regarding the screams: Is there any report, written or oral, of GZ telling police/investigators immediately after the altercation, and before he heard the 911 call with the screams. that he was screaming for help? I, for one, believe it was Trayvon. GZ was too calm, cool and collected immediately after the killing. The voice we heard was that of a hysterical person - someone in fear for his life. Also sounded like a younger person. Just my $.02.

Yes, an officer will testify that he heard George (while in the back of the police car) as he was being taken to the station that he repeatedly yelled for help and no one came.

 

[m00c0w]

He was going to accuse her a bias in favor of the defense because he checked her Twitter page and GZ's name appeared in one of the suggested follow columns. She wasn't following him or anyone else. She just (apparently) did what I did and that was open a twitter account but never uses it. She doesn't follow anyone and has never tweeted. He really quite embarrassed himself.

Thanks! This was the brunette whose 911 tape had the screams on it, right?

 

[Nymeria]

Haha! That was totally not done on purpose- I used to babysit a girl that loved Dexter's Lab years ago and fell in love with the DeeDee character. I even dressed as her one Halloween (as an adult, yeah) when the show was still culturally relevant (I feel old). I changed it before I even knew Trayvon's girlfriend's nickname was DeeDee. Funny coincidence, though.

O/T Hey I loved DeeDee too, don't feel old!
My son loved that show, we always used to imitate the Dad from the episode they were supposed to go somewhere as a family (amusement park or something) and Dad kept saying "Family Fun". Whenever we are going to do something we go to the "Family Fun" mantra.
OK Probably one of those had to be there kind of things, I would post a link for all to appreciate Dex's Dad, but I think this is not the thread to go too far O/T!

PS- If you remember the "Omlette du fromage" episode you are truly awesome :seeya:

 

[iluvmua]

Link please?

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http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-Suspended-From-School-Three-Times-Report-144403305.html