George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion Thread #8

[georgiagirl]

And why was GZ carrying a loaded gun when he was simply going to the store? Yes, he has a right and a permit to carry one, but just because someone has the right etc. doesn't mean they are the "good guys".. :twocents:

BBM
Because he has a permit to do so. Lots of law abiding citizens with a CC permit carry one everywhere. IMO you never know when you may need it.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think we need to stick to what we know happened to get to the heart of it..

Saying " I don't think TM would have.. " Somehow implies intimate knowledge of him as a person and his choices.. Complete speculation.

WE know he was out there that night. Rachel said TM said.. " I SEE HIM" Which means he could have just as easily been hiding around and looking for George" if you put weight into her testimony.

OMO

 

[4Jacy]

We have extremely different definitions of responsible parenting imo.

Would you mind explaining your statement? tia

 

[fran]

Reminder!

Let's concentrate on the trial and not bring up the past for either the victim or the defendant unless it's being admitted in trial.

I'll check with administration tonite and see if they want these things discussed. But for now, there are no links being provided, it's causing problems and if it gets out of hand, we'll have to close the thread for discussion of today's court session.

TIA
fran

 

[Jane Jetson]

A neighborhood watch person has no authority over any one, they are not the law. I'm sorry, but since when do people need to be aware of neighborhood watch?

GZ also didn't need to engage in TM either.. :twocents:

In my opinion, they need to be aware of Neighborhood Watch when they are standing in someone's postage stamp-sized yard, scoping out their home, and confronting strangers, punching them in the nose, and bashing their heads into the sidewalk. In my opinion.

In my opinion, Mr. Martin engaged Mr. Zimmerman first, and in a very hostile, then violent manner. At some point, imo, George fought back.

 

[sorrell skye]

however, This case is about current law so your feelings about that can not come into play..

I think that is the problem. Many of us may have points about the case that we where we don't agree with the law.. but it is the law and how justice is measured.

I think that is what is making it so emotional for so many.. Their personal view on the law.

OMO

I agree, Scarlett. I edited my post before I saw yours, & added this to my post:

ETA: I understand that GZ didn't break any laws by carrying with a loaded chamber. I'm merely expressing my views regarding laws that pertain to carrying with a loaded chamber.

My opinion regarding whether or not FL laws should or should not be amended has no bearing on this case, since GZ is being tried under FL laws that were in place during the time of the shooting.

The existing laws must be applied to the facts of the case, regardless of how one may feel about the existing laws.

FWIW, I'm still waiting to hear testimony & to see/hear evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt the State's charge of 2nd degree murder.

 

[LinTX]

Too add my :twocents: again.. lol.. I believe GZ saw TM when he was on the phone with dispatcher and that was why he changed to having the police call him instead of meeting him. I also noticed that when he said that, he sounded like he wanted off the phone fast. So, I believe GZ saw TM, too..

He didn't change from wanting the police to meet him. Actually he asked them to call him so he could direct them to him quicker - the dispatcher was confused by his directions to where his car was parked. He was pretty clear he thought they needed to get there quickly after TM approached him with his hands in the waistband of his pants, then circled his car while staring him down.
This move by TM may or may not have been intended to be threatening, but I would have at least considered it to be confrontational.

 

[ilovewings]

I'm not saying Zimmerman is perfect. But no one is saying he is.

What is a concern to me, is what I've learned about Trayvon makes the statements that he was so very perfect . . .unbelievable. When I read cases I just want to know the truth, to judge them for myself, and painting him in this way just frustrates that process. If he was the kind of boy they're describing, it seems to me RJ would be very very concerned in hearing what she knew to be his involvement in a physical fight over the phone. Very concerned. IMHO And yet, she wasn't even concerned enough to try to call back later. IMHO

so if he wasn't an angel I guess that means it was ok to hunt him down and kill him? there is not one scintilla of evidence that TM was doing anything wrong that night. not one

 

[PaperDoll]

And again.. That is just supposition.

Since we were not there. But I am firmly in GZ's camp until someone proves it did not happen as he said, Because right now I see a whole lot of the STATES case, adding up for the defense.

OMO

IMO and if I were on the jury, I am going to listen to GZ's own words in all his statements, he is the one I'm going to be carefully listening to. To me he hasn't proven himself in a good light. Do I think he deserves life or a long prison term? No, and this is where it's hard to make a call on what should be done. A 17 year old teen is dead because of GZ's actions and from everything I'm seeing in this case, it's all about protecting GZ's self defense claim and yet I'm wondering why this 17 year old is dead simply because he was walking back home from the store, unarmed, running from someone he isn't comfortable with watching him. :twocents:

 

[DIBSY]

So this just occurred to me, and may have already been posted.

It's curious that RJ was so quick to dismiss the altercation she heard over the phone as "just a fight".

Hmm. If I were a girl and overheard what appeared to be a fight involving my friend, I'd be VERY upset and worried. Unless, of course, this happened so frequently that it was business as usual. Just another day.

IMHO, of course.

Is there a link, please to Rachel Jeantel saying exactly " it was just a fight
", please? For one thing, fights in some connotations by some people are merely Verbal and not Physical...plus she had no way of knowing GZ was armed with a deadly weapon.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I also live in a townhouse community. I can guarantee you that if a tall male of any color was standing in a downpour of rain in the dark outside my home or my neighbor's home - whether wearing a hoodie or not - I would find it to be suspicious. Period.

This young man had a half hour of time between the video at the 7-11 and the end of the phone call with "Dee Dee" aka "Diamond Eugene" aka "Rachel".
He had PLENTY of time to have returned to the home where he was staying.
What was he doing during that time? Standing around outside in a neighborhood in the rain talking on a cell phone? Why?

Anyone who does NOT find this to be at least strange, if not suspicious, doesn't live in an area where break-ins are occurring and where a neighborhood Crime Watch has been established. You learn to keep your eye on strange-looking events and to report them. This would be one of them.

I think Rachel is STILL not telling the full story. And she likely never will. Plus, I would be appalled if I learned my 17 yr. old son was exchanging hundreds of texts and spending hours on the phone with this woman! And yes, she was and is a woman, not a girl.

Oh, and "creepy *advertiser censored* cracker" is NOT a racial slur? It was obvious to me that this obviously highly under-educated woman did NOT immediately understand the term "culture" when asked if the term "cracker" was used regularly within her culture. I then thought that she very well doesn't really know what is and is not a racial slur. Unless it is coming from white to black.

I think it is a shame someone died. But I do not believe George Zimmerman hunted him down and deliberately killed him. I think Trayvon did attack him. As he has done in the past - but the jury won't hear about that.

Also, there was one very important - to me - piece of evidence. That is that the location of the hole in Trayvon's shirt proves that the gun was NOT pressed against his chest when the gun was fired. The shirt was several inches away from his chest, indicating he was leaning OVER George at the moment of the shot.

RE: "Is there a link, please to Rachel Jeantel saying exactly " it was just a fight
", please?"

You can go to youtube and enter "George Zimmerman trial", then click onto and watch all of her testimony. She said this several times.

 

[JeannaT]

so if he wasn't an angel I guess that means it was ok to hunt him down and kill him? there is not one scintilla of evidence that TM was doing anything wrong that night. not one

No, it's never okay to hunt someone down with the intent to kill them.

What I'm trying to understand, and what is the most pivotal point in this case, is who attacked who? By sugar coating one or the other's recent past history, it makes it hard to correctly decide who would have attacked who.

If we've got one guy who has never ever been in a fight, who was extremely docile and was known to talk his way or flee his way out of altercations, that's something to strongly consider.

I don't believe that was the case for Trayvon, based on a variety of things and RJ's reaction to her knowledge that he had gotten into a fight while on the phone with her.

It's important for the jury to clearly see each individual's recent past in order to guess what happened - because that's what they're going to have to do. Make a good educated guess.

IMHO.

 

[PaperDoll]

I think we need to stick to what we know happened to get to the heart of it..

Saying " I don't think TM would have.. " Somehow implies intimate knowledge of him as a person and his choices.. Complete speculation.

WE know he was out there that night. Rachel said TM said.. " I SEE HIM" Which means he could have just as easily been hiding around and looking for George" if you put weight into her testimony.

OMO

We are all implying here since no one saw what happened. I don't know GZ and I don't know TM, all of us are guessing what happened and we are all taking sides by what we think went out, with or without evidence. WE are not in the court room on that jury being instructed, we are sitting behind a computer, lol.. typing as we see fit

 

[sacrablue]

If it was pitch black the night of the murder, why do some people think TM needed to hide behind a bush before the attack?
Having trouble making sense out of this statement IMO.

 

[PaperDoll]

In my opinion, they need to be aware of Neighborhood Watch when they are standing in someone's postage stamp-sized yard, scoping out their home, and confronting strangers, punching them in the nose, and bashing their heads into the sidewalk. In my opinion.

In my opinion, Mr. Martin engaged Mr. Zimmerman first, and in a very hostile, then violent manner. At some point, imo, George fought back.

Why did TM run from GZ, twice? If TM was violent, why didn't he confront GZ while he was in the car watching him? Why did he run instead?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Is there a link, please to Rachel Jeantel saying exactly " it was just a fight
", please? For one thing, fights in some connotations by some people are merely Verbal and not Physical...plus she had no way of knowing GZ was armed with a deadly weapon.

She said it on the stand. I heard it also. When asked why she did not tell anyone , she replied, " I thought it was just a fight." Or something very close to that..OMO

You would have to go through trial video..

 

[JeannaT]

If it was pitch black the night of the murder, why do some people think TM needed to hide behind a bush before the attack?
Having trouble making sense out of this statement IMO.

It wasn't pitch black. If it were pitch black, Zimmerman wouldn't have been able to see Trayvon, and Trayvon wouldn't have been able to see Zimmerman clearly enough to know he was being followed.

It was dark, with some porch lights on here and there. IMHO

 

[JudyBolton]

Suspensions don't mean anything,

I respectfully disagree with this statement - speaking as a high school teacher. It does mean a great deal - especially THREE times. It has been reported that he had some sort of full-ride scholarship.... the school administration had to know that this would probably result in loss of such a scholarship. I do not think they just walk down the halls handing out suspensions. It has also been reported that this school would not even report *criminal* behavior but had instituted its own in-house policy to avoid having such activity on their students' records. imo

 

[JudyBolton]

Suspensions don't mean anything,

I respectfully disagree with this statement - (speaking as a high school teacher. ) It does mean a great deal - especially THREE times. It has been reported that he had some sort of full-ride scholarship.... the school administration had to know that this would probably result in loss of such a scholarship. I do not think they just walk down the halls handing out suspensions. It has also been reported that this school would not even report *criminal* behavior but had instituted its own in-house policy to avoid having such activity on their students' records. imo

 

[lil_buddy]

Suspicious is in the eye of the beholder.

To some...
Leisurely pace=casing the 'hood'.
Quick, purposeful pace = trying to get away without a full out run.

To others...
Leisurely pace=typical teen behavior where teen wants to avoid family.
Quick, purposeful pace = wants to arrive @ destination as soon as possible.