Georgia deputies fatally shoot CNN security guard as he tried to help distressed son

[bluesneakers]

^ this (posted 12/26).

(A couple days behind on this thread but) is enough info publicly avail to know what actually happened?
As drjones posts, incorrect info comes from many sources, esp in early days.

Incorrect information should not be spread by LE.

 

[i.b.nora]

Family of off-duty CNN guard seeks answers after shooting
CNN
By Catherine E. Shoichet, CNN
Updated 6:32 AM ET, Mon December 28, 2015

“Officials have said a deputy in Douglas County, Georgia, opened fire after a gun was pointed at him.

But a lawyer representing Bobby Daniels' family says the 48-year-old off-duty security guard never pointed a gun at officers and was struggling to stop his son from getting a hold of the weapon when a deputy shot him dead last Monday.”

*

“Authorities and family members have given different accounts about what happened next.

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said deputies first tried to get Bobby Daniels and his son, Bias, to drop the weapon, shouting verbal commands.

"As the fight continued between Bias and Bobby, the handgun was pointed at the deputies, at which point one of the (deputies) fired, striking and killing Bobby," the statement said.

Douglas County Sheriff Phil Miller told CNN affiliate WSB that Daniels could have been trying to do the right thing.

"I think that he could have been trying to help the situation instead of hurting it, but when he pointed a gun at the officer, he was shot," Miller said.”

*

“Stewart told reporters that claim isn't true -- and isn't fair.

"I appreciate that the sheriff's department acknowledges that Bobby Daniels was trying to help them, but in the same statement, they're going to say 'but he pointed a gun at them'? That contradiction speaks volumes. It speaks volumes to the contradiction of this entire situation by saying that this is Bobby Daniels' fault in any way," he said.”

*

“That's just not true. From what we understand, he had a bad reaction to some chemical, and that's what made him start hallucinating and have the weapon," Stewart said. "And his father was just trying to talk him down and control the situation, like any good dad would do."​

We still don't know very much yet about this case.

 

[bluesneakers]

Family of off-duty CNN guard seeks answers after shooting
CNN
By Catherine E. Shoichet, CNN
Updated 6:32 AM ET, Mon December 28, 2015

“Officials have said a deputy in Douglas County, Georgia, opened fire after a gun was pointed at him.

But a lawyer representing Bobby Daniels' family says the 48-year-old off-duty security guard never pointed a gun at officers and was struggling to stop his son from getting a hold of the weapon when a deputy shot him dead last Monday.”

*

“Authorities and family members have given different accounts about what happened next.

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said deputies first tried to get Bobby Daniels and his son, Bias, to drop the weapon, shouting verbal commands.

"As the fight continued between Bias and Bobby, the handgun was pointed at the deputies, at which point one of the (deputies) fired, striking and killing Bobby," the statement said.

Douglas County Sheriff Phil Miller told CNN affiliate WSB that Daniels could have been trying to do the right thing.

"I think that he could have been trying to help the situation instead of hurting it, but when he pointed a gun at the officer, he was shot," Miller said.”

*
“Stewart told reporters that claim isn't true -- and isn't fair.

"I appreciate that the sheriff's department acknowledges that Bobby Daniels was trying to help them, but in the same statement, they're going to say 'but he pointed a gun at them'? That contradiction speaks volumes. It speaks volumes to the contradiction of this entire situation by saying that this is Bobby Daniels' fault in any way," he said.”

*
“That's just not true. From what we understand, he had a bad reaction to some chemical, and that's what made him start hallucinating and have the weapon," Stewart said. "And his father was just trying to talk him down and control the situation, like any good dad would do."​

We still don't know very much yet about this case.

Wrt bold:

Already changing their story IMO.

From the 12/22:

When a second man got out of the car, he allegedly grabbed the gun from the hood of the car and pointed it at the deputy, Miller said. The deputy then fired two shots at the second man, who was killed.

 

[i.b.nora]

Forgot to leave a link to the CNN updated article above:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/27/us/bobby-daniels-cnn-security-guard-killed/

 

[Tawny]

The law may be black and white but humans aren't, they are every shade of grey in between. There are infinite variables and human lives are at stake.

 

[katydid23]

The law may be black and white but humans aren't, they are every shade of grey in between. There are infinite variables and human lives are at stake.

Does that include the human lives of cops that are at stake?

 

[Tawny]

Does that include the human lives of cops that are at stake?

Obviously.

 

[katydid23]

Obviously.

I ask because I don't always see their welfare and their personal points of view given much credence here.

 

[wendybtn]

1,115 people killed by US police so far this year. 213 of them were unarmed, and no sign of anything changing. I expect that it will be 1,200 or 1,300 next year.

The Counted People killed by police in the US

We used to put these people in mental institutions for long periods of time. People decided to close them. What do you want to do? Unless we forcibly medicate people, which the ACLU will get an injunction against, what is the solution? The war on illegal substances has not worked either. We voted people into office that won't return to solutions of old, won't put forth funds for prisons/mental health facilities and staff. So this is what happens. The family cannot control their loved one, they cannot make the person take meds, they don't want them imprisoned. So, again, this is what happens.

 

[Tawny]

We used to put these people in mental institutions for long periods of time. People decided to close them. What do you want to do? Unless we forcibly medicate people, which the ACLU will get an injunction against, what is the solution? The war on illegal substances has not worked either. We voted people into office that won't return to solutions of old, won't put forth funds for prisons/mental health facilities and staff. So this is what happens. The family cannot control their loved one, they cannot make the person take meds, they don't want them imprisoned. So, again, this is what happens.

IMO, it should never have been a war to begin with. It should have been treated as a mental health issue from the start so people could get help and not be treated like criminals.

As for the mental health issue as a whole, we need better training for those sent to transport or deal with mental health patients/sufferers. Violence exacerbates the issue and causes problems for everyone else after the violent contact is made. The officers have to the be the ones with the cool, rational minds, because you simply can't expect that from someone suffering from mental illness.

It seems to some the answer is simply to kill them if they show aggression, as though they have any control over themselves at all, and to me, that is absolutely tragic and unsympathetic. There's no empathy. There's no humanity. JMHO, ymmv.

 

[bluesneakers]

IMO, it should never have been a war to begin with. It should have been treated as a mental health issue from the start so people could get help and not be treated like criminals.

As for the mental health issue as a whole, we need better training for those sent to transport or deal with mental health patients/sufferers. Violence exacerbates the issue and causes problems for everyone else after the violent contact is made. The officers have to the be the ones with the cool, rational minds, because you simply can't expect that from someone suffering from mental illness.

It seems to some the answer is simply to kill them if they show aggression, as though they have any control over themselves at all, and to me, that is absolutely tragic and unsympathetic. There's no empathy. There's no humanity. JMHO, ymmv.

BBM: It's true. When someone is in psychosis or even overcome with extreme anxiety the logic that might work on someone sane and rational will not likely work.

We need more resources, and better resources. People with mental illnesses deserve options and mental health parity shouldn't even be an issue. In a country that proclaims to love military members and everything to do with the armed forces, why are veterans with mental illnesses living long-term in psych hospitals or worse, living on the streets? Police brutality of people with mental illnesses is going to continue, imo, until we offer better treatment and better training. (I know the veteran shot in this case probably did not have a mental illness.)

If you have a mental illness and are frightened and delusional/irrational/experiencing psychosis and you know to fear police officers specifically because of what happened to someone else (or what's happened to you in the past), what are you going to do?

 

[katydid23]

IMO, it should never have been a war to begin with. It should have been treated as a mental health issue from the start so people could get help and not be treated like criminals.

As for the mental health issue as a whole, we need better training for those sent to transport or deal with mental health patients/sufferers. Violence exacerbates the issue and causes problems for everyone else after the violent contact is made. The officers have to the be the ones with the cool, rational minds, because you simply can't expect that from someone suffering from mental illness.

It seems to some the answer is simply to kill them if they show aggression, as though they have any control over themselves at all, and to me, that is absolutely tragic and unsympathetic. There's no empathy. There's no humanity. JMHO, ymmv.

So what is someone supposed to do if a mentally ill man charges them with a knife or a bat? Are they supposed to try hand to hand combat?

 

[Tawny]

So what is someone supposed to do if a mentally ill man charges them with a knife or a bat? Are they supposed to try hand to hand combat?

I'm not having this conversation with you again. No disrespect intended, it's just that we've been going circles talking about this, and I don't want to perpetuate the cycle. Thanks.

 

[katydid23]

I'm not having this conversation with you again. No disrespect intended, it's just that we've been going circles talking about this, and I don't want to perpetuate the cycle. Thanks.

What is the circle? I have not seen the question answered yet? What is the cop supposed to do if someone charges him with a knife?

All I see is comments saying ' the mentally ill should be treated before it gets to this.' OK, I agree. But that is not the case. So why are ya all blaming the cops that are being attacked and are defending themselves.

 

[bluesneakers]

What is the circle? I have not seen the question answered yet? What is the cop supposed to do if someone charges him with a knife?

I don't believe there's anything in Websleuth's TOS that says someone is obligated to answer a question.

 

[Tawny]

That question has been answered plenty of times in other threads and is always met with "what if" scenarios and strawman arguments. Just because the answers given are not acceptable to you or others does not mean we need to continue to answer the same question over and over. Again, JMO, no disrespect intended. I just don't want to fight.

 

[drjones]

I don't believe there's anything in Websleuth's TOS that says someone is obligated to answer a question.

Nowhere in her post does she demand an answer or suggest that the TOS demands that one be given.

She makes a completely logical assertion IMO that the question has not been answered so how can it be said the conversation is going in circles?

 

[Tawny]

Nowhere in her post does she demand an answer or suggest that the TOS demands that one be given.

She makes a completely logical assertion IMO that the question has not been answered so how can it be said the conversation is going in circles?

Because it's the exact same conversation in numerous other threads regarding officer involved shootings.

 

[katydid23]

I am confused by the situation being described. People are saying that the situation should not be as it is, and mentally ill should not be treated like criminals but should be treated as patients and should be cared for. I agree with all of that. The problem is, that is not what is happening. There is no adequate, effective mental health system currently.

So the justice system, the police and the EMTS and the jails are left dealing with this volatile situation. Most of them are 'trained' to work with the mentally ill. But that does not help if someone charges them with a knife or a bat or tries to fight them and get their gun. Once someone comes at you physically, it is not possible to greatly 'deescalate' the situation. It becomes a self-defense situation.

 

[drjones]

Because it's the exact same conversation in numerous other threads regarding officer involved shootings.

I understand that but there has not been a response given, but I dont want to bicker, happy new year, have a good night.