Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[michmi]

JMO--Who knows. Are you reaching back to the Red Army Faction days with the reference to Germany specifically? Or do you have something else in mind?

I don't have anything in mind other than location. Germany seems to have been a favored hiding place during the years they carry out their plans.

 

[jslk]

What, EXACTLY, does being GERMAN have to do with this?

I believe either this man was schizophrenic, or a terrorist. In today's world, a lot of people called British, Swedish, German, whatever, are not, they come from the middle east, Africa, ANYWHERE. Nationality, so called, is no longer a trustworthy yardstick with diversity running the show.

I wanted to bold it as I knew it would be of interest given the previous speculation on the pilots' backgrounds... Absolutely no comment on that particular nationality was intended [emoji4]

And moreover I was reporting verbatim what the French prosecutor's answers to questions were during the pressed. Hope that clarifies my post.

 

[ElleElle]

"After 9/11, they made cockpits impregnable. It keeps the terrorists out, but in the end it also allows someone to keep their colleagues out too. Airlines have to make a call. Which is the bigger threat - terrorism or suicide?"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32063587

 

[gooniequeen]

When the Air Egypt flight was brought down intentionally by the first officer in the Atlantic in 1999 - the situation was very similar. First Captain excused himself to go to the bathroom 20 minutes after take off and the suicidal first officer pretty much did the same thing except he idles the plane and tilted the nose down. The First Captain returns to the cockpit yelling "what's happening..what's happening" and then "pull with me" but the first officer apparently did not pull and the plane crashed killing all aboard. So sadly even when getting back in to the cockpit is a possibility it may not alter the outcome.

[h=3]Flight recorder data[edit][/h]The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) recorded the captain excusing himself to go to the lavatory, followed thirty seconds later by the first officer saying in Egyptian Arabic "Tawkalt ala Allah," which translates to "I rely on God." A minute later, the autopilot was disengaged, immediately followed by the first officer again saying, "I rely on God." Three seconds later, the throttles for both engines were reduced to idle, and both elevators were moved three degrees nose down. The first officer repeated "I rely on God" seven more times before the captain suddenly asked repeatedly, "What's happening, what's happening?" The flight data recorder reflected that the elevators then moved into a split condition, with the left elevator up and the right elevator down, a condition which is expected to result when the two control columns are subjected to at least 50 pounds (23 kgf) of opposing force.[SUP][1][/SUP] At this point, both engines were shut down by moving the start levers from run to cutoff. The captain asked, "What is this? What is this? Did you shut the engines?" The captain is then recorded as saying "get away in the engines" (this is the literal translation that appears in the NTSB transcript), followed by "shut the engines". The first officer replies "It's shut". The final recorded words are the captain repeatedly stating, "Pull with me" but the FDR data indicated that the elevator surfaces remained in a split condition (with the left surface commanding nose up and the right surface commanding nose down) until the FDR and CVR stopped recording. There were no other aircraft in the area. There was no indication that an explosion occurred on board. The engines operated normally for the entire flight until they were shut down. From the presence of a western debris field about 1,200 feet (370 m) from the eastern debris field, the NTSB concluded that the left engine and some small pieces of wreckage separated from the aircraft at some point before water impact.[SUP][1][/SUP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

 

[CARIIS]

wow now i get a flight attendant in cockpit - what a hoot! She was able (after 4 crashes) to land the darn thing by being talked down via ATC!!!!

[h=1]Amateur Trying to Land Airbus A320 from 2500 Altitude[/h]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkOT3fbc1O4

 

[ElleElle]

Alps plane crash: How to keep someone out of the cockpit

Clip ---> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32073318

 

[CARIIS]

Guyzzz... stop talking.... I'm just now getting online and am 15 pages behind... :gaah: :heartluv:

that is funny !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fruity]

Why haven't we heard anything about possible cell calls by passengers? Was it possible for them to have done so? A lot of the passengers on the doomed flights on 9-11 did so- couldn't they? Or is this something being withheld from us? Not that I disagree for now.

Screams were only heard in the last seconds, just before the impact. The descent was not at a severe enough angle for them to have know anything was happening, thank goodness.

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/03/26/19/04/french-crash-co-pilot-on-job-18-months

 

[CARIIS]

I was thinking about that, but then thought there was only a total of 8 minutes. So if you subtract three or four for the pilot to visit the bathroom, return and find the door locked...then another minute of him knocking at the door before he really panics, another minute before passengers seated nearby had time to take in what was happening and figure the implications...it just seems there probably wasn't enough time left to call.

People further back in the plane probably never knew what was about to happen, thank heavens. I hope the children were amongst them.

media messed this angle up 18 min descent to mt.ealier link!

 

[bexlex]

I've been wondering if a note will be found. don't most airports have a post office? Perhaps he dropped a letter in the mail? I wonder if they have tracked his movements through the airport that day via camera?

I wonder if he's been waiting for this opportunity. He needs the other pilot to go to the bathroom. That flight wasn't long enough to ensure "potty time". I wonder if he made sure the pilot had a nice coffee before they left???? Really disturbing

 

[fruity]

The co-pilot Germanwings passenger jet that crashed into the French Alps had to stop his pilot training in 2009 because he was depressed and suffering "burnout".

Andreas Guenter Lubitz paused his training with German flag-carrier Lufthansa for several months because of his psychological issues, neighbours and friends have told Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

The mother of a schoolmate of Lubitz said her daughter had seen Lubitz just before Christmas and that he appeared normal.

She described the 28-year-old pilot, from Montabaur, Rheinland Pfalz in Germany, as a "lovely boy" who "had a good family background" but that six years ago he was struggling.

"Apparently he had a burnout, he was in depression," the unnamed mother said.

Lubitz was at the controls as Germanwings flight 4U 9524 descended from 38,000 feet into the side of the mountain, while his captain Patrick Sonderheimer desperately tried to re-enter the cockpit.

The plane's black box appears to show that, although the captain punched the emergency number into the cockpit door to gain entry, the co-pilot inside then relocked the door.


Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/...-suffered-from-depression#Cx5pZiFm17zmFJVG.99

 

[CARIIS]

Can you unlock it manually from the inside other than using the switch on the control panel?

I just watched a video on it - posted earlier - I did not get the sense there was that option, not totally sure tho!!

 

[bexlex]

Screams were only heard in the last seconds, just before the impact. The descent was not at a severe enough angle for them to have know anything was happening, thank goodness.

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/03/26/19/04/french-crash-co-pilot-on-job-18-months

That is a blessing...I hope it was over before they had time to really comprehend.

 

[atthelake]

just food for thought........breathing on the audio we conclude not incapacated, but............................contrary to most images of suicide, the belief that most are impulsive is untrue. Unnless psycotic, drugs, alcohol most folks who successfully complete suicide have battled not doing so for a very long time. That is why there is typically serenity once the final decision has been made.



You all would be amazed, when concerned about a pt , and begain a sucidality evaluation you would be surprised at the plans. How will you kill yourself? I have been stashing my meds. Where will you kill yourslef? I want to be sitting in my blue chair. What time of day ? I would like to go in the morning? What has stopped your from doing so? My husband. HOw many pills have you stashed? 48 Are you scared? No, not really I just hope it is peaceful. What do you think your husband will feel? Probably sad, but I am confident he will go on - he will be better off without me really. How long have you been thinking about this ? about 4 years etc etc

Previous research and popular conceptualizations of suicide have posited that many suicides are the result of impulsive, “on a whim” decisions. However, recent research demonstrates that most suicides are not attempted impulsively, and in fact involve a plan. ....recent research has indicated that most suicides are planned,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2597102/

Have had 4 folks commit suicide that I knew. Examples of 3 of them...4th... not gonna talk about

#1 - My father ... Suicide by gun... nuff said, don't wanna go into it. Found his suicide note 5 years after he passed... long story

#2 My sisters best friend when I was in middle school....suicide by gun... She was in college... SMARTEST in her high school. She rented a U-Haul and drove all her belongings into the mountains to take her own life. DAYUMMMM.... consideration of her that............... no words no words no words right now

#3 My childhood friends son..... suicide by gun. Just the month before he and his family supported me with a loss

#4.... Not saying......nope... not saying....


Anywhoooooooooooooooo.... I have tears tears tears tears flooding down my face as I read this thread.............

jeeeeeeeeeeeeez dammit, I was trying to make a point here, but will have to go to another WS thread as I'm bawling............


xoxoxooxoxoxo

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think this is about "him" at all. I think it's possible he's part of a sleeper cell or a lone wolf assisting the Islamic State. It's not like Germany hasn't been connected to such things before (Sept. 11).

I felt the same way in AUst got involved in MAL 370 - what a differance from AMerica. The pressers were awesome - same with a candian story. Officials seemed to want to answer questions honestly, here in america for the first month (whole place here is afraid of lawsuit) ya no comment no commnet

the Brice guy this AM was awesome, so IMO , I think they will release, if they find it. But it also seems like they would have been loocking for online terror activity in this day and age and it did not seem like they found a guy who liked planes, music, etc etc

I suppose we will learn more when the go throu his computer from his house!

 

[Gin]

Have had 4 folks commit suicide that I knew. Examples of 3 of them...4th... not gonna talk about

#1 - My father ... Suicide by gun... nuff said, don't wanna go into it. Found his suicide note 5 years after he passed... long story

#2 My sisters best friend when I was in middle school....suicide by gun... She was in college... SMARTEST in her high school. She rented a U-Haul and drove all her belongings into the mountains to take her own life. DAYUMMMM.... consideration of her that............... no words no words no words right now

#3 My childhood friends son..... suicide by gun. Just the month before he and his family supported me with a loss

#4.... Not saying......nope... not saying....


Anywhoooooooooooooooo.... I have tears tears tears tears flooding down my face as I read this thread.............

jeeeeeeeeeeeeez dammit, I was trying to make a point here, but will have to go to another WS thread as I'm bawling............


xoxoxooxoxoxo

Oh my goodness, how difficult. I think you (understandably) realize that sometimes things can trigger very difficult emotions. Your solution of moving to another thread is wise. We all have to judge when it's time to take a break. :hug:

 

[fruity]

“For the first 20 minutes of the flight, the pilots spoke in a normal way, you could say cheerful and courteous,” Mr Robin said. “We heard the flight commander prepare the briefing for landing at Dusseldorf and the response of the copilot seemed laconic. Then we heard the commander ask the copilot to take the controls.

Mr Robin said the co-pilot’s responses, initially courteous, became “curt” when the captain began the mid-flight briefing on the planned landing of the Germanwings flight which crashed in France, killing 150 people.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...t-andreas-lubitz/story-fnizu68q-1227280471225

 

[Dogface]

I wonder if he's been waiting for this opportunity. He needs the other pilot to go to the bathroom. That flight wasn't long enough to ensure "potty time". I wonder if he made sure the pilot had a nice coffee before they left???? Really disturbing

Very good point...wonder how long he had been thinking about this? Like you pointed out, the right opportunity would have to arise for this. What would be the chances the pilot happened to go to the restroom and he made a snap judgment to crash the plane? There has to be some clue, some hidden nugget in his life that investigators will find.

 

[sar2them1984]

I just watched a video on it - posted earlier - I did not get the sense there was that option, not totally sure tho!!

No I didn't get that sense either so my point earlier stands - there would be very little possibility of a second person in the cockpit reversing that process

 

[gooniequeen]

This flight was a daytime flight. I've flown over the alps from Rome to Munich back in 1996 and it was a magnificent sight out the window. Sadly I don't think these passengers were oblivious until the last moments as any glimpse out the window would show something was very wrong.