Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[Bravo]

CARIIS I was meaning to ask. I realize the Pilot Hours were low too but I was wondering were those quoted hours just flying the Airbus 360? Did he fly another type of plane for another Airline? TIA

 

[SouthAussie]

they also have a uniform sqack code - 77 something that secretly starts flashing on the radar indicating some serious issue. Some did it in 911

Yes, there was an early report that a nearby Italian military jet issued that code during this incident.


"Some experts claim that an Italian military jet switched its transponder to the emergency code of #7700 at 10.35, near where flight 4U9525 began its final descent.
Investigators should be quickly able to determine whether this emergency was a coincidence or possibly had some relevance to the passenger jet's demise."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ldorf-francois-hollande-Lufthansa-4U9525.html

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I don't in anyway condone or seek to excuse the actions of the co-pilot if this turns out to be murder-suicide, as is looking increasingly likely, but I think the term 'good guys' is totally unhelpful. Situations where mental illness is a factor are never black and white - and whilst I'm not against full medical, including psychiatric, assessments of people in positions of responsibility, mental illness is widespread and variable, and it could set a dangerous precedent if we start implementing blanket rules whereby anyone who has suffered (or is suffering) from depression is automatically relegated to 'bad/crazy guy'. JIMO

If this copilot was suffering from a mental illness and intentionally flew that plane into the mountain killing everyone in board, he'd indeed be a very bad murdering person, irregardless of the illness. If his illness was that severe, he shouldn't have been flying a plane at all. Again, this is all hypothetical anyway and is based on some acquaintances of his saying he suffered from depression years ago. We aren't privy to the extent of that depression yet...ie if he needed counseling, meds, etc. I do agree with you that certain mental illnesses aren't always black & white. In this situation, however, if he indeed suffered from a psychiatric disorder, he had no business flying that plane with other people's lives in his hands...medicated or not.

 

[CARIIS]

Some sort of panic attack inducing mental paralysis? So he couldn't respond but was still conscious (i.e. remained breathing steadily throughout). I actually think this is a highly unlikely scenario given that programming the descent and overriding cockpit entry were both done manually, just throwing out some alternative options. It seems premature to condemn him outright before we have all the information - but the evidence (at least from the prosecutor's point of view) appears to be overwhelmingly against him.

Sadly, they KNOW he did it. When the awesome guy Brice Robin this AM was going over stuff he indicated that on the tape they can hear the sound of the knobs that relate to descend mode stuff actaully on the tape. He was awesome guys, up front, answered in detail when he could , spent time wiht the world ( unlike here in america where they cut everyone off when they are ready !)

 

[Lola68]

Here's the problem.

Provide a way for the Good Guys on the outside to be enter the cockpit when someone in the cockpit is either a Bad Guy OR an incapacitated Pilot OR a Pilot turned Bad.
Also, if the person on the outside is being tortured or threatened, there must not be a way for them to get in.

Is this 1 solution?

Have a KEY on the outside that is in a welded-to-the-floor 12-inch thick solid steel SAFE with a combination lock to get that KEY. Nobody knows the combination except maybe 5 high level managers who one will be ALWAYS present at the airport control tower and available by regular phone call. The phone number is known by all personal on board every air craft AND there is always 1 phone on the outside that always works to make external calls.

Then in this type of situation , a simple phone call to that phone number through the airline's phone system could contact them to get the combination to get the KEY. That high level manager could try to contact the cockpit and if they dont respond then they KNOW the situation is REAL.

This would solve ALL situations where terrorists could still never enter and yet in this airplane situation we just had, the GOOD GUYs could get in.

Would it work? Kind of complicated though.

How could you guarantee that the person making the call was legitimate? Even if it was an identified member of the crew, they could be requesting it under duress (e.g. gun held to head).

 

[Elley Mae]

We have found something which will now be taken for tests. We cannot say what it is at the moment but it may be very significant clue to what has happened. We hope it may give some explanations.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pped-safety-net-devastating-consequences.html

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Has he been diagnosed officially?
I am assuming this is a case of mania induced by depression.

I just haven't seen that he was officially diagnosed with something, which would crack this entire story wide open.

Maybe he never found the help he needed due to the stigma surrounding mental health?

Not that I've seen. No idea. Was only speculating due to the recent comments from acquaintances of his.

 

[fabvab]

Medical Certificate Requirements For Pilots:
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/become/medical/

Medical Certifications For Pilots - including length of certifications for each class 1st-3rd. (Wiki but some useful info):
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_certifications_for_pilots

*** Note that it appears Andreas Lubitz's med cert expires 06/2015...pffft just 3 months away. Was he afraid he wouldn't pass again?***

http://pilots-airmen.findthedata.com/l/986395/Andreas-Guenter-Lubitz

My husband has his 3rd class Pilot's license, but had to jump through hoops to get it because he had a mole removed 4 yrs earlier that was melanoma. No other cancer was found anywhere and he has received no other treatment other than regular check-ups at dermatologist. Because the incision was .8 mil too deep for the standards, he has had to have a MRI of the brain for the last 2 yrs in order to renew his license. The medical standards are strict, but they also have to rely on the honesty of the pilot. Ex. My hubby takes blood pressure meds, and said he could easily lie and say he takes them and not do it.

He did say it was a very extensive detailed medical history he has ever had...saying they ask for the name of every doctor or hospital that has ever treated you...if they catch you in a lie...you are out of luck. At least that has been his experience.

He said they ask a lot of questions pertaining to mental health. I'm sure this pilot easily lied to keep his license/job if he had mental health issues...Which He obviously had to murder innocent people!

 

[SouthAussie]

The Guardian have published another pic of Lubitz from a German publication ... the headline says 'that crazy pilot'.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...e-co-pilot-who-crashed-his-plane-live-updates

 

[CARIIS]

I dont not think they are going to be able to "find" everyone, kinda like 9-11. They should start to "prepare"loved ones for that possiblity IMO

 

[Trident]

It seems that the airlines and pilots are against this. If the plane can be overidden remotely, it can be taken over remotely as well.

What they need is armed guards on each flight, in the cockpit, such as the Swiss Guards in the Vatican, and the Marines aboard Navy ships.

 

[SouthAussie]

Airlines adopting two-person cockpit rule: round-up

An update on the airlines that have said they will also adopt the policy of having two people in the cockpit at all times:

Have changed their policy
Monarch (UK)
easyJet (UK)
Virgin Atlantic (UK)
Thomas Cook (UK)
Air Canada (Canada)
Westjet (Canada)
Air Transat (Canada)
Norwegian Air Shuttle (Norway)
Air Berlin (Germany)
Already had a two-person rule
Ryanair (Ireland)
Aer Lingus (Ireland)
Jet2 (UK)
Flybe (UK)
Porter (Canada)
The “rule of two” is routine for US carriers.
No current plan to change policy
Lufthansa (Germany) – owners of subsidiary airline Germanwings.
Air France-KLM Group (France/Netherlands) said it was “following developments … with keen attention”.
In Australia, the federal government in in talks with domestic airlines to decide whether such a rule needs to be implemented. lease:
No comment
British Airways (UK) said it did not discuss “issues of security”.

We will update this list if more airlines adapt their procedures today.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...e-co-pilot-who-crashed-his-plane-live-updates

 

[BirdycatNY]

I don't in anyway condone or seek to excuse the actions of the co-pilot if this turns out to be murder-suicide, as is looking increasingly likely, but I think the term 'good guys' is totally unhelpful. Situations where mental illness is a factor are never black and white - and whilst I'm not against full medical, including psychiatric, assessments of people in positions of responsibility, mental illness is widespread and variable, and it could set a dangerous precedent if we start implementing blanket rules whereby anyone who has suffered (or is suffering) from depression is automatically relegated to 'bad/crazy guy'. JIMO

While I understand where you are coming from, the fact is is Andreas Lubitz is a mass murderer at best, mentally ill or otherwise. He is a most evil and bad person. Adam Lanza was a mentally ill individual who murdered children, and he was an evil mass murderer. Mental illness is not black and white, but I think Mr. Lubitz intentionally planned this and was very calculating, just like Adam Lanza or others who commit such horrific crimes.

It's important to comfort the families of those who lost loved ones and to thoroughly investigate Mr. Lubitz's associates as far back as possible, if high amounts of money funneled to him/family, SM presence etc. And LE should do this for ANY mass murderer because there may be groups who are planning such attacks. Terrorists or young "lone wolves". The point is to make sure that it never happens again, whether through strengthening psychiatric screenings, more thorough background checks on pilots/crew. But if Mr. Lubitz was a psychopath, that's difficult to screen for. Honestly I don't care if Mr. Lubitz was upset about a break-up or depressed, he didn't commit suicide, he committed murders.

My guess is Mr. Lubitz has some ideological philosophy that will tie into his murdering 150 human beings and let's hope he isn't part of some large scale terrorist link or it's sanctioned by some govt. At best, he is a mass murderer who may have had mental problems, but most people with mental health issues don't commit this type of crime. But people who want international attention certainly do. None of these "pilot suicides" are suicides imo, but mass murderers who want international attention and the question is why and imo it's not mental health issues unless psychopath, all carefully planned. It makes me totally wonder if this is what happened to Malaysia 370? Jmo

 

[Jersey*Girl]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/67522733/germanwings-crash-mystery-around-copilot-andreas-lubitz

Germanwings crash: Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz once confessed to 'burnout'
MATTHEW SCHOFIELD, STEFAN NICOLA, STUART METZLER, ABBY OHLHEISER AND SARAH LARIMER
Last updated 13:19, March 27 2015

People who commit suicide usually do so alone. When you do it with 150 people behind you it's not suicide," said the French prosecutor leading the investigation, Brice Robin. "That is why I am not using this word. I don't call it a suicide."

The discovery from listening to voice recordings captured in the flight's final moments that Lubitz voluntarily typed in codes directing the plane to descend, then refused to unlock the cabin door so that the plane's pilot could enter, turned what had been a crash investigation into a murder probe.

"Today, we now have received news that this tragedy has been given a new, immeasurably incomprehensible dimension," said German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Robin said that based on the audio recording found in one of the plane's "black boxes," investigators believe that as the plane reached cruising altitude, its pilot, Captain Patrick Sonderheimer, left the cockpit to go to the bathroom. As is standard procedure, the control of the plane was left in the hands of the autopilot and the co-pilot.

As Sonderheimer left the cockpit, Lubitz typed a command in the jet's computer causing the plane to lose altitude. He then refused to open the locked cockpit door during the following eight minutes, as Flight 9525 steadily neared the mountain.

The interpretation that we can give at this time is that the co-pilot through voluntary abstention refused to open the door of the cockpit to the commander and activated the key that activates the loss of altitude," Robin said.

The key strokes needed to order the plane to descend "must be voluntary" and are not accidental, Robin said.

As the plane glided to Earth, the recording caught the pilot first knocking, then calling over an intercom, then banging and finally trying to break through the locked cockpit door. The recording caught no response from Lubitz, only steady breathing that indicated Lubitz remained alive. It also recorded the screams of the passengers.

 

[fabvab]

Kudos to the airlines and countries who are adopting the "2 people in the cockpit rule" immediately!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/27/germanwings-crash-details-emerge-of-the-co-pilot-who-crashed-his-plane-live-updates

 

[panthera]

It is a sad reality today. We just never know "who". They walk amongst us. I do wonder if bits and pieces from friends/family etc. will paint a bigger picture that something was brewing?

Actually I am more hopeful that nothing is found amiss that doctors should have diagnosed which would make it appear Lufthansa was negligent in hiring him. Perhaps he was part of a terrorist organization, even a small one, or just a demented sociopath who was bent on taking his own life and everyone else with him. Hopefully answers will come soon.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those lost and to Lufthansa....



MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

I dont not think they are going to be able to "find" everyone, kinda like 9-11. They should start to "prepare"loved ones for that possiblity IMO

I hope it is like MH17 ... where, eventually, they were able to find DNA/something from everyone on board. Which enabled all of the families to have a funeral.

 

[Bravo]

Actually I am more hopeful that nothing is found amiss that doctors should have diagnosed which would make it appear Lufthansa was negligent in hiring him. Perhaps he was part of a terrorist organization, even a small one, or just a demented sociopath who was bent on taking his own life and everyone else with him. Hopefully answers will come soon.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those lost and to Lufthansa....



MOO

To be honest at this point I'm leaving toward an evil psychopath. Opinion subject to change of course. So many folk suffer from Mental Illness but never would do such a thing.

 

[CARIIS]

CARIIS I was meaning to ask. I realize the Pilot Hours were low too but I was wondering were those quoted hours just flying the Airbus 360? Did he fly another type of plane for another Airline? TIA

Yes, linked earllier, only 100 of 600 some were A320, for lack of a better word the other type of aircraft I had never heard of!! If I can find it i will repost! TMedia also continues it errounous 8 minute desecent - it was 18 minutes, and they keep correcting a fighter was scrabmled, saying that was wrong, it was not a fighter was scrambled

A French military Mirage jet was scrambled from the Orange air base[SUP][15][/SUP] to intercept the plane.[

[h=1]Germanwings plane crash: Airbus A320 glide to destruction 'took 18 minutes not 8'[/h]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...struction-took-18-minutes-not-8-10131891.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

They also keep lumping Egypt Air into suicide. It was not. It was intended, but not suicide. It was revenge. (commit suicide — or sabotage) Simply put pilot had sexual indicreations, was demoted and the dude that did it to him was on the plane he crashed. Same thing PSA boss was on the aircraft iteslef.

According to Taha, just hours before the flight, al-Batouti was demoted by an EgyptAir executive who was on board the plane.
[h=1]EgyptAir Pilot Sought Revenge By Crashing, Co-Worker Said ere was no evidence that the co-pilot, Gamil al-Batouti, committed suicide.[/h]
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/16/us/egyptair-pilot-sought-revenge-by-crashing-co-worker-said.html

Here we are decades later and CNN still cant get the facts correct


[SUP]

[/SUP]

 

[panthera]

I dont not think they are going to be able to "find" everyone, kinda like 9-11. They should start to "prepare"loved ones for that possiblity IMO

From viewing the debris field, I am also skeptical. Very, very sad.