Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[Bravo]

It is a sad reality today. We just never know "who". They walk amongst us. I do wonder if bits and pieces from friends/family etc. will paint a bigger picture that something was brewing?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Some sort of panic attack inducing mental paralysis? So he couldn't respond but was still conscious (i.e. remained breathing steadily throughout). I actually think this is a highly unlikely scenario given that programming the descent and overriding cockpit entry were both done manually, just throwing out some alternative options. It seems premature to condemn him outright before we have all the information - but the evidence (at least from the prosecutor's point of view) appears to be overwhelmingly against him.

I wonder if it's possible he was on medication but didn't take it, maybe a mood stabilizer of some sort?

 

[Hatfield]

Pure speculation:

I have an almost 27 yo son, who is not a pilot btw. Having been around his friends, of the same age + or -, a failed relationship, discovery of their GF cheating with another person, seems to make these young men lose all sensibilities. I wonder if his fiancée brokenoff their relationship, a short time ago, with no chance of reconciliation.

I only speculate this due to his age, if combined with depression, something like this made him snap. The deliberate actions on his part just seem like a big "FU". IMO and I hope to be proven wrong.

This is a good point. Breakups can be traumatic on people and especially younger people who sometimes think its the end of their world. They are sometimes too immature to realize that life is a long process and there will be many more opportunities to find a new partner to live their life with.

It could be something like that. Whatever it was, the investigators did say they found something in the apartment worth looking into.

If it wasnt a letter of some sort or his social media posts or something then I dont know what else it could be because he seemed to manually override the cruise control and set the descent down to the ground. So it is pointing to some sort of phsychological issue of some sort.

I first thought last night he may have locked the door to do some hard drugs and had a heart attack or something but the setting of the descent seems to outrule that out entirely.

 

[bexlex]

Have had 4 folks commit suicide that I knew. Examples of 3 of them...4th... not gonna talk about

#1 - My father ... Suicide by gun... nuff said, don't wanna go into it. Found his suicide note 5 years after he passed... long story

#2 My sisters best friend when I was in middle school....suicide by gun... She was in college... SMARTEST in her high school. She rented a U-Haul and drove all her belongings into the mountains to take her own life. DAYUMMMM.... consideration of her that............... no words no words no words right now

#3 My childhood friends son..... suicide by gun. Just the month before he and his family supported me with a loss

#4.... Not saying......nope... not saying....


Anywhoooooooooooooooo.... I have tears tears tears tears flooding down my face as I read this thread.............

jeeeeeeeeeeeeez dammit, I was trying to make a point here, but will have to go to another WS thread as I'm bawling............


xoxoxooxoxoxo

So, so sorry!! :grouphug:

 

[Niner]

my snip of quote

Tid bits:
“During the first 20 minutes, the pilots talk normally,” Mr. Robin said, saying they spoke in a “cheerful” and “courteous” way. “There is nothing abnormal happening,” he said.
The prosecutor said the transcript showed that the captain was preparing a briefing for landing in Düsseldorf. The co-pilot’s answer, the prosecutor said, was “laconic.”

Okay - I do/did not know the meaning of this word "laconic" :

from Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

laconic - adj. [L laconicus Spartan, fr. Gk lakonikos; fr. the Spartan reputation for terseness of speech] (1589) : using or involving the use of a miminum of words : concise to the point of seeming rude or mysterious syn see concise.

just an FYI if you didn't know...

 

[Bravo]

my snip of quote


Okay - I do/did not know the meaning of this word "laconic" :

from Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

laconic - adj. [L laconicus Spartan, fr. Gk lakonikos; fr. the Spartan reputation for terseness of speech] (1589) : using or involving the use of a miminum of words : concise to the point of seeming rude or mysterious syn see concise.

just an FYI if you didn't know...

LOL I had to look it up too

 

[CARIIS]

Thank you. This prompted me to look for a possible answer. I have to wonder if he shared with Lufthansa that he previously suffered from some sort of depression.

*** Please see link as more links are within the listed info. ***
HI Jersey!




HI Jersey!

Great post! THe notion that being on psyc meds in and of itself means you lose your livlihood in and off itself prohibits any real addressing individuals suffering with mental illiness who happen to fly as a career. It is counter intuitive. Its kinda like docotrs and lawyers being "obligated" to report colleagues for certain thingsm but rarely do.

There may be from time to time a cooleague whispering to another maybe you should cancel a couple of segements, but the truth is , like in many segments of western culture mental illiness carries much different burdens than say cancer !

 

[JanetElaine]

my snip of quote


Okay - I do/did not know the meaning of this word "laconic" :

from Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

laconic - adj. [L laconicus Spartan, fr. Gk lakonikos; fr. the Spartan reputation for terseness of speech] (1589) : using or involving the use of a miminum of words : concise to the point of seeming rude or mysterious syn see concise.

just an FYI if you didn't know...

Yes. Curt, laconic... no reason to be that way just because your pilot is following protocol and briefing the landing.

ETA: I mean since they were conversing perfectly normal earlier. It's like he did not want to talk about the landing... maybe because he knew there would not be one? If so, that could mean his 'lucky break' - pilot goes to bathroom, he doesn't have to take him out...

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Medical Certificate Requirements For Pilots:
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/become/medical/

Medical Certifications For Pilots - including length of certifications for each class 1st-3rd. (Wiki but some useful info):
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_certifications_for_pilots

*** Note that it appears Andreas Lubitz's med cert expires 06/2015...pffft just 3 months away. Was he afraid he wouldn't pass again?***

http://pilots-airmen.findthedata.com/l/986395/Andreas-Guenter-Lubitz

 

[fabvab]

I recognized Y'all too from the Air Asia disaster.

Im glad to see everyone again here but on such a sad occasion again. Lots of mixed emotions.

Emirates is helpful again here like last time too. And Cariis of course and many others.

THANKS EVERYONE + HELLO

I followed the Air Asia disaster too but didn't post...same with this thread. I appreciate all the info and great links everyone has provided. I just wish we weren't here posting on another air disaster thread. There have been too many. Prayers for the family and friends of the deceased.

 

[Sonya610]

I have always thought the screaming would be the worst thing about dying in an airline crash. Not only do you likely know you are about to die, but having to listen to hysterical screaming would make it far far worse. Hopefully the cabin stayed relatively quiet.

 

[trackhit]

Some of the information coming out makes this even more unfathomable.

From all accounts a well balanced, pleasant young man with a sense of humour and plans to marry - whatever went wrong had to be profound, but no one seems to have been able to detect it. Chilling.

maybe they broke up

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Yes. Curt, laconic... no reason to be that way just because your pilot is following protocol and briefing the landing.

ETA: I mean since they were conversing perfectly normal earlier. It's like he did not want to talk about the landing... maybe because he knew there would not be one? If so, that could mean his 'lucky break' - pilot goes to bathroom, he doesn't have to take him out...

Could he maybe be bipolar, kept it hidden, was going through a tough time, stopped taking his meds, maybe snapped? This is all hypothetical. Just trying to get around the creepiness of so many planes going down with passengers that are members employed by various coalition departments. It's just so eerie...

 

[Bravo]

I have always thought the screaming would be the worst thing about dying in an airline crash. Not only do you likely know you are about to die, but having to listen to hysterical screaming would make it far far worse. Hopefully the cabin stayed relatively quiet.

Seems it did until close to the end. I agree the screaming would be beyond horrific.

 

[CARIIS]

Just a guess but IMO cruising altitude on Auto is the safest part of a flight. Co-Pilot had all his training and gaining his experience. Pilot was only steps away. Yep you make sense.

linked ealier, only 100 of his 600 some was in an A320. ! So we are talking about a pairing concern. Even with pilot with 10 years and 6000 hours is low for a decade in the career. This may come up months from now, again, focus more on pairing skill sets!

the basic industry notion is about Extrapolate that to a year, and you have 900 flight hours times 10 even the pilot was low!

http://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...r-of-flight-hours-a-year-for-commercial-pilot

 

[Lola68]

Re BBM

I totally agree. We have to do something to allow people on the outside to get in when they are the good guys. I dont know the answer yet but there has to be a way.

Suicides are way too frequent and they seem to be more of them these days.
Especially terrorist suicide bombers.

Even if this was a domestic suicide, it shows a need to come up with some new idea to be able to enter that cockpit if the Good Guys are on the outside.

I need to really think this through but we have got to have a way.

The first thought I had was if an air marshall had been on board, he could have used his gun to blow through the lock mechanism but that is rather extreme and dangerous in its own right.

If the only reason for having the FINAL LOCK setting on the inside of the cockpit is to prevent someone from torturing someone on the outside (that has the combination or key) to open the lock, then there still has to be a way to solve this.

I need to think this through more.

I don't in anyway condone or seek to excuse the actions of the co-pilot if this turns out to be murder-suicide, as is looking increasingly likely, but I think the term 'good guys' is totally unhelpful. Situations where mental illness is a factor are never black and white - and whilst I'm not against full medical, including psychiatric, assessments of people in positions of responsibility, mental illness is widespread and variable, and it could set a dangerous precedent if we start implementing blanket rules whereby anyone who has suffered (or is suffering) from depression is automatically relegated to 'bad/crazy guy'. JIMO

 

[Bravo]

Lola68 many of have posted together and know each other. To the extent we know no disrespect is intended by blanket statements. I have made them myself and many of us here recognize the stigma with Mental Health Issues.

 

[Lola68]

The first thought I had was if an air marshall had been on board, he could have used his gun to blow through the lock mechanism but that is rather extreme and dangerous in its own right.

My issue with this is as soon as you allow a gun on the plane, you're introducing the possibility of the gun being taken/misused/accidentally discharging - which is statistically more likely if you have an air marshall on every plane

 

[CARIIS]

Except with the Phone call to a real person, that person would first try to contact the cockpit pilot and if the pilot either did not answer OR said the wrong things like a terrorist would, then the person would know its OK to let them have the override code.

they also have a uniform sqack code - 77 something that secretly starts flashing on the radar indicating some serious issue. Some did it in 911

 

[sherbetjello]

Could he maybe be bipolar, kept it hidden, was going through a tough time, stopped taking his meds, maybe snapped? This is all hypothetical. Just trying to get around the creepiness of so many planes going down with passengers that are members employed by various coalition departments. It's just so eerie...

Has he been diagnosed officially?
I am assuming this is a case of mania induced by depression.

I just haven't seen that he was officially diagnosed with something, which would crack this entire story wide open.

Maybe he never found the help he needed due to the stigma surrounding mental health?