Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #3

[Denis R Tandib]

Yes, it seems such a small ask, to not doubt that the description of what HeB and MS claim they saw on video was absolutely, no question, the rape and abuse of a 14yr old girl.

And it's fine to doubt HeB and MS but that's not what's happening here. The 'doubt' relates to whether or not what they claim to have seen constitutes rape. Effectively, those believing the account of the witnesses but looking for reasons to downplay and minimise what the witnesses claim to have seen, at the expense of a 14yr old.

It's depressing to read.

People evaluate information differently.

If the facts are that the girl was 14, was being held against her will and forcibly being orally raped, I don’t think anyone would disagree that this is an awful crime.

However, do I think HeB and MS are capabable of embellishing their account? yes. Is the age of the alleged victim definite? No. Does what has been reported constitute rape? Not if she consented, this and much worse is readily and legally available on the internet for anyone to view. Finally, despite considerable effort by the BKA, no victim has been found

I really don’t think anyone is trying to downplay what would certainly be the rape of a minor, if what alleged is true.

It might be considered by some as a horrible abusive act on a woman of any age, but that doesn’t make it a crime. I think this is what is being argued - is their doubt that a crime took place here?

IMO, yes, I can’t be sure BARD.

 

[UK Girl]

HB did not lie and he is the most important witness. MS isn’t.

yeah but you said they were both credible witnesses in the DM case. My point tbh was that doesnt mean they are both credible witnesses now.

Incidentally we don't really know if HB has lied this time.

 

[Hygge]

yeah but you said they were both credible witnesses in the DM case. My point tbh was that doesnt mean they are both credible witnesses now.

Incidentally we don't really know if HB has lied this time.

As I said the judges know surely about MS then and now. People get old, dement,ill important was what MS told 2019 when he was able to remember. BKA surely know people aren’t the same as witnesses getting older or dement within the years. Not often witnesses should come up multiple times in their lifes

 

[UK Girl]

As I said the judges know surely about MS then and now. People get old, dement,ill important was what MS told 2019 when he was able to remember. BKA surely know people aren’t the same as witnesses getting older or dement within the years. Not often witnesses should come up multiple times in their lifes

that still doesnt explain why he lied in court to be fair..and we know he did lie in court about one thing so how can we know he didnt lie about others? I do agree with @Denis R Tandib in that I think they could have embellished their accounts.

 

[Hygge]

The judge from 2019 confirmed their credibility
That’s important, nothing else.

 

[UK Girl]

The judge from 2019 confirmed their credibility
That’s important, nothing else.

the judge from 2019 also confirmed that he didnt recall HB stating that the alleged videos stated what year they was supposedly filmed in. If it said 2005 why did he not bring it up in the first trial? I guess for some it isnt only about 2019. It isnt for me at least.

 

[Hygge]

I Said all what counts is the 2019 statement and everything which is not the same doesn’t count as the judge will know.
Alcohol, illness, confusion.

 

[Hygge]

HB gave all hints to solve a terrible crime.

 

[Mex]

I Said all what counts is the 2019 statement and everything which is not the same doesn’t count as the judge will know.
Alcohol, illness, confusion.

Effects of suffering from a terminal illness?

 

[UK Girl]

I Said all what counts is the 2019 statement and everything which is not the same doesn’t count as the judge will know.
Alcohol, illness, c

Effects of suffering from a terminal illness?

Has it been said MS is terminal?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Has it been said MS is terminal?

No but HeB is reportedly suffering a terminal illness.

 

[UK Girl]

No but HeB is reportedly suffering a terminal illness.

yeah I know he is...I didnt think MS's prognosis had been revealed

 

[Mex]

Has it been said MS is terminal?

HB has intestinal cancer and is not expected to live long, a friend told the court during a trial involving CB in Germany.
...
Mr B is the prosecution’s key witness in the trial, in which CB is accused of five counts of sexual assault in Portugal between 2000 and 2017.
...
On Friday, MT, another witness in the case, said Mr B has cancer, in comments reported by Sky News: “When we spoke... on the phone, we discussed general things including his cancer. It’s pretty bad. He got his diagnosis just a couple of months ago.”

MSN

 

[Hygge]

HB has intestinal cancer and is not expected to live long, a friend told the court during a trial involving CB in Germany.
...
Mr B is the prosecution’s key witness in the trial, in which CB is accused of five counts of sexual assault in Portugal between 2000 and 2017.
...
On Friday, MT, another witness in the case, said Mr B has cancer, in comments reported by Sky News: “When we spoke... on the phone, we discussed general things including his cancer. It’s pretty bad. He got his diagnosis just a couple of months ago.”

MSN

This might be the reason his lawyer was already with him during the trial, in case he died or isn’t able to continue with health problems

 

[UK Girl]

HB has intestinal cancer and is not expected to live long, a friend told the court during a trial involving CB in Germany.
...
Mr B is the prosecution’s key witness in the trial, in which CB is accused of five counts of sexual assault in Portugal between 2000 and 2017.
...
On Friday, MT, another witness in the case, said Mr B has cancer, in comments reported by Sky News: “When we spoke... on the phone, we discussed general things including his cancer. It’s pretty bad. He got his diagnosis just a couple of months ago.”

MSN

yes but I asked about MS. NOT HB. I already know HB's prognosis.

 

[Hygge]

yes but I asked about MS. NOT HB. I already know HB's prognosis.

Well it was reported in some papers
„Another key witness in the Madeleine investigation, Manfred Seyferth, has also been diagnosed with the disease.“

Madeleine McCann case faces setback as key witness diagnosed with cancer

KEY witness Helge Busching has been diagnosed with cancer, the court heard yesterday — delivering a potential blow to the prospects of the Madeleine McCann case. The 53-year-old reported Christian …

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

HB and MS have been credible witnesses in the DM case. The judge from DM told us. As far as I can see there is no doubt and lately even MT told us about CB telling him about the rape of the teenager.
We have two chances. Either believe them or think it was all made up between all 3 of them.
I go with the first choice and the similarities of the DM case to the video rapes and HaB is striking. Especially DM and HaB, same entry, ( patio or balcony door) same backpack, same MO and same ending( sent to the bathroom)
I think there are much more similarities only a profiler ( Mr. D) can prove
MO of course

What was the evidence that HB and MS gave in the DM case? it was possible the destroyed videos which they had seen,creating a mo, but it was backed up by forensics.Forward to the three cases now, no forensics, two cases no victims have come forward, HaB relived her attack but could she positively identify CB? She was sure because of his eyes and the one positive ID possible was the alleged mark on his body but she wasn't sure if this was a tight run.Does CB even have a mark? ,more tellingly the witnesses who claim CB was the one they saw on video and personally know have never mentioned a mark.All opinion.

 

[Hygge]

We cannot answer these questions. The trial will last till October there is a lot what will go on.

 

[UK Girl]

Well it was reported in some papers
„Another key witness in the Madeleine investigation, Manfred Seyferth, has also been diagnosed with the disease.“

Madeleine McCann case faces setback as key witness diagnosed with cancer

KEY witness Helge Busching has been diagnosed with cancer, the court heard yesterday — delivering a potential blow to the prospects of the Madeleine McCann case. The 53-year-old reported Christian …

www.thesun.co.uk

Yes I know that also. I read many different articles about the case

 

[Mex]

What was the evidence that HB and MS gave in the DM case? it was possible the destroyed videos which they had seen,creating a mo, but it was backed up by forensics.Forward to the three cases now, no forensics, two cases no victims have come forward, HaB relived her attack but could she positively identify CB? She was sure because of his eyes and the one positive ID possible was the alleged mark on his body but she wasn't sure if this was a tight run.Does CB even have a mark? ,more tellingly the witnesses who claim CB was the one they saw on video and personally know have never mentioned a mark.All opinion.

There would have been no DM investigation nor would there have been a trial without intelligence regarding the identification of the perpetrator being given to police investigators.

There would have been no investigation of the evidence leading to DM being identified nor would there have been any forensic evidence verifying that CB was the perpetrator of her rape.

Railing against HB's identification of the circumstances recognised by her is a bit counter productive at this stage. Quite obviously police investigators think so too. All that remains now is to see if the evidence before the court is strong enough to sustain a conviction.
The young German woman has also indicated skin blemishes and if the police photographic evidence showing blemishes from an earlier case is allowed in HB's case, that may be the equivalent of body hair equalling conviction for DM's rape.
My opinion