Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #5

[Davieson]

I actually find it really weird tbh. The police can be open to all sorts of accusations.

And temptations.

It must be very tempting to take illegal shorts to help solve a crime

 

[RichardKimble]

Sounds like the bad old days of British policing.

There's possibly a chance because of the publicity the German system and the BKA have been found wanting.I'd venture ordinarily these point wouldn't matter but HCW for the BKA brought CB to attention to all and scrutiny of the system and the prosecutors criticism of the judiciary.There was another case where the prosecutors office attracted criticism of its handling with an internal review.

 

[RichardKimble]

And temptations.

It must be very tempting to take illegal shorts to help solve a crime

The illegal search is one already.

 

[frank-cole]

As in the current case, they could challenge the reliability of a witness.
How would the prosecutor differentiate between murder, manslaughter and accidental death do you think ?

I don’t think like a member of Christian B’s defence team, so I sometimes struggle to catch your points. Partly because of the victims & what they went through. I’m pro-victim.

If CB has a photograph of MM dead I think it’ll be a real struggle for a defence lawyer to claim it was an accidental death. With respect - I don’t feel comfortable being asked to give an opinion on how or why a little girl had died.

 

[Davieson]

The illegal search is one already.

I'm sure there are many options available for corrupt officers. We still see many in this country, for all the safeguards.

I don’t think like a member of Christian B’s defence team, so I sometimes struggle to catch your points. Partly because of the victims & what they went through. I’m pro-victim.

If CB has a photograph of MM dead I think it’ll be a real struggle for a defence lawyer to claim it was an accidental death.

I disagree unless the photo displayed circumstances incompatible with life. How do you differentiate between a photo of a sleeping child and a dead one ?

 

[Davieson]

I don’t think like a member of Christian B’s defence team, so I sometimes struggle to catch your points. Partly because of the victims & what they went through. I’m pro-victim.

If CB has a photograph of MM dead I think it’ll be a real struggle for a defence lawyer to claim it was an accidental death. With respect - I don’t feel comfortable being asked to give an opinion on how or why a little girl had died.

I agree. You tend to accept a witness statement at face value, whereas I look at ways of testing what is claimed . Its the only way to get at the truth.

 

[frank-cole]

I'm sure there are many options available for corrupt officers. We still see many in this country, for all the safeguards.

I disagree unless the photo displayed circumstances incompatible with life. How do you differentiate between a photo of a sleeping child and a dead one ?

I really don’t feel comfortable discussing how & why one could look at a picture tell how a child died.

Unfortunately this is the direction I think these ‘fighting the cause’ debates will go in.

 

[UK Girl]

I don’t think like a member of Christian B’s defence team, so I sometimes struggle to catch your points. Partly because of the victims & what they went through. I’m pro-victim.

If CB has a photograph of MM dead I think it’ll be a real struggle for a defence lawyer to claim it was an accidental death. With respect - I don’t feel comfortable being asked to give an opinion on how or why a little girl had died.

It isnt about being pro victim. I am pro truth whatever it is.

 

[frank-cole]

I agree. You tend to accept a witness statement at face value, whereas I look at ways of testing what is claimed . It’s the only way to get at the truth.

It’s about being pro-victim. Pro-defence is born out of anti-McCann. It’s just the way this works.

 

[frank-cole]

It isnt about being pro victim. I am pro truth whatever it is.

Children in the park is good example. I believe the children, I don’t believe the paedophile. The challenge is that it can’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

CB has a previous of assaulting a child in a park & exposing himself in the process.

 

[Davieson]

Its not a case of fighting the cause, its attempting to get at the truth.
In the days of Photoshop and more recently AI, it going to be very difficult to establish the validity of photographs. Fortunately there are very clever IT people about who can do this.

 

[frank-cole]

Its not a case of fighting the cause, its attempting to get at the truth.
In the days of Photoshop and more recently AI, it going to be very difficult to establish the validity of photographs. Fortunately there are very clever IT people about who can do this.

‘Fighting the cause’ is trying to argue that CB had a picture of MM asleep (post abduction) or CB had an AI image of MM post abduction. I find it quite a disrespectful insinuation but I can understand why you could be relying on that shtick in the future. TBH I think the majority of sceptics won’t rationalise things that way.

I’ll now refrain from debating this in detail.

 

[Davieson]

I'm not suggesting that CB had any such photo, only that any photo produced by the prosecution will need close scrutiny. Remember the 'last photo'

 

[Mex]

It isnt about being pro victim. I am pro truth whatever it is.

The reason we are here discussing the cause for the victims of vicious criminal acts is that a criminal took the time and made the effort to perpetrate the crime.

 

[Mex]

It’s about being pro-victim. Pro-defence is born out of anti-McCann. It’s just the way this works.

Our introduction to CB was that he is a patsy.
That is one point of view.
The other viewpoint is that he is a person of great interest to the forces of law and order who proved without doubt he had a case to answer in the aggravated rape of DM. Just as he merited being investigated and brought to trial for the offences of which he is accused.
My opinion

 

[Mex]

Its not a case of fighting the cause, its attempting to get at the truth.
In the days of Photoshop and more recently AI, it going to be very difficult to establish the validity of photographs. Fortunately there are very clever IT people about who can do this.

At the moment there are rapes and other sexual assaults awaiting judgement.

Not one of which is related to the crime for which the Portuguese authorities have constituted CB arguido.

 

[Mex]

I'm not suggesting that CB had any such photo, only that any photo produced by the prosecution will need close scrutiny. Remember the 'last photo'

Certainly the fact is that there were lost videos the existence of which was proven when they

• led to the discovery of the rape of DM
• investigation of which led to CB's conviction for the crime
• with investigators from the PJ - BKA - SY, establishing CB as the only suspect in the disappearance of MM

What makes you think that evidence cited by the prosecution would not receive scrutiny from every part of the process?

 

[JB1510]

Unfortunately the term pro truth doesn’t wash with me .In the fact that pro truth would not fail to offer alternative poi’s, or other potential avenues to investigate. Rather than dismissing everything else as hearsay or coincidence.CB’s only criminal record in Portugal (if you wish to believe) is for traffic offences and diesel theft which will fit a certain narrative to some.

 

[UK Girl]

Unfortunately the term pro truth doesn’t wash with me .In the fact that pro truth would not fail to offer alternative poi’s, or other potential avenues to investigate. Rather than dismissing everything else as hearsay or coincidence.CB’s only criminal record in Portugal (if you wish to believe) is for traffic offences and diesel theft which will fit a certain narrative to some.

The problem is as was said in Rob Hydes article many witnesses appeared shady. Ofc if the evidence does not add up that is ok if it is against CB and makes him look bad but for me I want definitive proof

 

[frank-cole]

Our introduction to CB was that he is a patsy.
That is one point of view.
The other viewpoint is that he is a person of great interest to the forces of law and order who proved without doubt he had a case to answer in the aggravated rape of DM. Just as he merited being investigated and brought to trial for the offences of which he is accused.
My opinion

Agree. IMO the current polarising attitudes are born out of MM case opinions held long before the Germans came onto the scene. It doesn’t surprise me that when you follow things back - it’s a - believe that then - believe this now. Truth be a dog bark truth doth not be a paedophile showing his genitalia in a park….

It’s very typical just masked.

Personally I have no doubts about his guilt - but given what they had to work with I don’t think the prosecutors have proven these 5 cases beyond a reasonable doubt. A not guilty verdict doesn’t mean he didn’t pull his pants down in front of children in a park & it doesn’t mean that the witnesses who saw things didn’t magically not see them. He doesn’t become the friendly neighbourhood rapist if the judge rules the cases weren’t proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

These cases have just lacked the 1 hard thread of evidence. No CCTV of me eating the biscuits from the biscuit tin either.