Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

[Bose]

Thanks again, White_Rabbit. I can't go too far into Shannan's case, as I have not researched it as much as the Gilgo 4, but have done some reading as well as listening or watching interviews with John Ray. I will say a few things quick though, solely based on what I know from college studies:

About the possible administration of a benzodiazepine to Shannan Gilbert by Peter Hackett: From everything I've gathered, Peter Hackett was/is a person prone to lying. So, difficult to sort out what's what. If he was a doctor in good standing, what drugs did he have outside of a hospital or clinic, and why. Did he write prescriptions, or hand things out like candy that he got from somewhere under the table. So, with the info you posted, White_Rabbit, it could have been any combination of drugs administered to her from something like Ativan, to something like morphine, and mixed with other drugs, could have led to central nervous system depression. Even taking Benadryl with a benzo, such as Xanax, can cause the breathing and heart rates to slow. But, was it a combination of those types of drugs?

Were they depressants like benzos or morphine, or stimulants (cocaine, etc.), or both.

But, coupled with that, you have the fight, flight, or freeze response. With adrenaline (also known as epinephrine) coursing through her body and hiding/freezing (behind the couch), or running for help (flight), her body was working overtime, with a flood of natural chemicals intended to keep her alive and away from danger/threats. Epinephrine and norepinephrine could have explained some reports of her behavior. Any way you look at it, I don't think she was crazed, I think she was just trying to survive and her body was doing what most everyone's body would in the same situation.

While researching this and double-checking some medical things, I read an article in part that mentions people with hyoid fractures surviving. If it happened earlier in the night, I would guess it could possibly be not only noticeable with swelling, but she would have difficulty breathing, swallowing, or talking.
Management of Hyoid Bone Fractures: A Systematic Review

• June 2012
• Otolaryngology Head and Neck Surgery 147(2):204-8

DOI:10.1177/0194599812451409

I am going to read, and re-read, and then read again your post--I really need to brush up on the details of that whole part of things. May Shannan rest in peace, along with the Gilgo 4, and all victims.

 

[Jimmytoast]

Double posted sry!

 

[Bose]

No worries

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Thanks again, White_Rabbit. I can't go too far into Shannan's case, as I have not researched it as much as the Gilgo 4, but have done some reading as well as listening or watching interviews with John Ray. I will say a few things quick though, solely based on what I know from college studies:

About the possible administration of a benzodiazepine to Shannan Gilbert by Peter Hackett: From everything I've gathered, Peter Hackett was/is a person prone to lying. So, difficult to sort out what's what. If he was a doctor in good standing, what drugs did he have outside of a hospital or clinic, and why. Did he write prescriptions, or hand things out like candy that he got from somewhere under the table. So, with the info you posted, White_Rabbit, it could have been any combination of drugs administered to her from something like Ativan, to something like morphine, and mixed with other drugs, could have led to central nervous system depression. Even taking Benadryl with a benzo, such as Xanax, can cause the breathing and heart rates to slow. But, was it a combination of those types of drugs?

Were they depressants like benzos or morphine, or stimulants (cocaine, etc.), or both.

But, coupled with that, you have the fight, flight, or freeze response. With adrenaline (also known as epinephrine) coursing through her body and hiding/freezing (behind the couch), or running for help (flight), her body was working overtime, with a flood of natural chemicals intended to keep her alive and away from danger/threats. Epinephrine and norepinephrine could have explained some reports of her behavior. Any way you look at it, I don't think she was crazed, I think she was just trying to survive and her body was doing what most everyone's body would in the same situation.

While researching this and double-checking some medical things, I read an article in part that mentions people with hyoid fractures surviving. If it happened earlier in the night, I would guess it could possibly be not only noticeable with swelling, but she would have difficulty breathing, swallowing, or talking.
Management of Hyoid Bone Fractures: A Systematic Review

• June 2012
• Otolaryngology Head and Neck Surgery 147(2):204-8

DOI:10.1177/0194599812451409

I am going to read, and re-read, and then read again your post--I really need to brush up on the details of that whole part of things. May Shannan rest in peace, along with the Gilgo 4, and all victims.

Good point re: partial fracture of hyoid and surviving. If she had just been choked (inside of Brewer’s residence) to the point of near death, wouldn’t an emergency 911 call seem plausible?

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Good point re: partial fracture of hyoid and surviving. If she had just been choked (inside of Brewer’s residence) to the point of near death, wouldn’t an emergency 911 call seem plausible?

That’s my take on what happened. SOMETHING propelled her to call 911 from inside Brewer’s house…
Again the contents of the 911 call could very well have contained all sorts of info that we don’t know. Who’s to say that she didn’t specifically follow up the “they’re trying to kill me…” with “he/they just tried to strangle me…”?

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Good point re: partial fracture of hyoid and surviving. If she had just been choked (inside of Brewer’s residence) to the point of near death, wouldn’t an emergency 911 call seem plausible?

…Although if she had been choked that severely (at Brewer’s), she might not have had the physical ability to speak, let alone speak for 20 mins., due to vocal cord damage. So hyoid fracture might not have been before 911 call. It’s also possible that hyoid fracture was a result of a previous injury, as some WS members have hypothesized (i. e. from a previous trauma). Comparison of any previous x-rays from medical history in preceding years leading up to her disappearance might or might not show hyoid fracture.

 

[Bose]

I agree that it could have been from a previous injury. I tend to think, am leaning toward, at least, that it happened very close before her death if there was strangulation. It's possible that someone had tried to choke her earlier in the night, before 911 call, I guess though we won't know until when/if the 911 tape is released.

Though on the second autopsy report, it mentions the particulars with the hyoid bone, we just don't know enough, sadly.

One bit of information though, that may (or may not) be of importance--in many survivors of domestic violence, choking or attempts to strangle are a major warning sign when it comes to a person capable of committing homicide. If someone strangled her, and/or Gilgo 4, a possible history of domestic violence might be there. Or, it could be that they just enjoy it, which of course is bad, but likely, IMO.

Here's and article on non-fatal strangulation:
Non-fatal strangulation is an important risk factor for homicide of women

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Yes, all good points. Do you know if SCPD ever had a doctor look at any previous x-rays that might have been in SG’s medical history to ascertain whether or not the hyoid fracture was present in night she disappeared?

 

[Bose]

Yes, all good points. Do you know if SCPD ever had a doctor look at any previous x-rays that might have been in SG’s medical history to ascertain whether or not the hyoid fracture was present in night she disappeared?

That's a great question, Sleuth_Noob.

I've been going back over information I can find out there the last few days. Started with looking into CPH's medical credentials a little. Last few days have been re-listening to the LISK podcasts from the beginning, and tonight watched Lost Girls on Netflix. I've read the book, just doing my best to refresh my memory. My short-term memory isn't so good anymore, so I'm taking notes when I can. Next place I'm going to hit up is Ancestry. I might be able to find some things there about CPH, or his father, and see what lines up and what doesn't. I'm skipping around, but it's helping me right now make better sense of things.

In the Lost Girls film, Dormer was looking over Shannan's medical records. I don't know if he had them, or SCPD has them, for sure. I want to cross-check with the Lost Girls book for that info, too. Look in some places and see if I find anything. If I do, I'll post. Great questions!

 

[Prana18]

Maybe the timing has more to do with the schedule of others in the perp's household,
or even driven to accommodate religious commitments?
Ie.
Sundays- mother/wife goes to church and then spends time visiting relatives, etc.
Thursdays - hair salon, spa day, ''girls night out''.
Conversely, religious.
Not on a Friday so do it Thursday.
Not on a Saturday, do it Sunday.
Speculation, imo.

LISK is an Orthodox Jew who pretends to be pious and "observes" Shabbat (begins every Friday at sundown until Saturday evening at sundown). His family would notice his disappearance on Shabbat.

 

[Prana18]

Maybe the timing has more to do with the schedule of others in the perp's household,
or even driven to accommodate religious commitments?
Ie.
Sundays- mother/wife goes to church and then spends time visiting relatives, etc.
Thursdays - hair salon, spa day, ''girls night out''.
Conversely, religious.
Not on a Friday so do it Thursday.
Not on a Saturday, do it Sunday.
Speculation, imo.

LISK is an Orthodox Jew who pretends to be pious and "observes" Shabbat (starts Friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown). His family would notice his disappearance on Shabbat.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

LISK is an Orthodox Jew who pretends to be pious and "observes" Shabbat (starts Friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown). His family would notice his disappearance on Shabbat.

That’s not a bad theory; it makes sense. Doesn’t have to necessarily be orthodox, though. Maybe just “observes” by attending temple w. family on Sat.

 

[Prana18]

That’s not a bad theory; it makes sense. Doesn’t have to necessarily be orthodox, though. Maybe just “observes” by attending temple w. family on Sat.

Temple services are a couple hours on Friday evening and Saturday morning.
If he was not an Orthodox Jew (e.g. if he was a Reform or Conservative Jew), he would be able to drive after services--He would still have Friday night, and most of Saturday for his "recreational activities."
However, the LISK is an Orthodox Jew who cannot and will not drive a car on Shabbat.
(Ashkenaz Orthodox Jews do not drive and cannot be driven on Shabbat. Their only means of transportation on Shabbat is walking, thus, they typically stay within walking distance of their home on Shabbat).
His driving, in addition to his disappearance on Shabbat, would be too obvious and would raise an absolute red flag to his family and neighbors, as families in the Orthodox Jewish community are typically together for most of Shabbat. He would never risk it.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Temple services are a couple hours on Friday evening and Saturday morning.
If he was not an Orthodox Jew (e.g. if he was a Reform or Conservative Jew), he would be able to drive after services--He would still have Friday night, and most of Saturday for his "recreational activities."
However, the LISK is an Orthodox Jew who cannot and will not drive a car on Shabbat.
(Ashkenaz Orthodox Jews do not drive and cannot be driven on Shabbat. Their only means of transportation on Shabbat is walking, thus, they typically stay within walking distance of their home on Shabbat).
His driving, in addition to his disappearance on Shabbat, would be too obvious and would raise an absolute red flag to his family and neighbors, as families in the Orthodox Jewish community are typically together for most of Shabbat. He would never risk it.

Well it’s definitely possible; and it’s a good theoretical explanation, in that it does make sense.

 

[dotr]

Noting.
An escort was found in a barrel in NJ. she had been transported from a swanky residence on Wall Street NY. Perp may be a gang member. Lisk came to mind, imo, speculation.
NJ - NJ- Human remains in large plastic container, left in street, RIDGEFIELD PARK, 13 Aug. 2021

 

[HarshReality]

Where are White Rabbit and Bose??? Man I just read Rabbit's profile and mine is eerily similar. I really would like to see if we might connect up and hash some of this out further. I posted the following on the profile thread but there are several things I left out that I see in his psychological make-up that match exactly how you see this guy.

Profile:
White Male, current age 40-50
Occupation - law enforcement, public works, or transportation with uniform and vehicle markings
Lives on Long Island near Massapequa/Babylon, works or frequents in Midtown Manhattan.
Possible transplant with a history of visiting the area as a youth
Alcohol and drug user
History of trouble in school and a loner/outsider
Physically unassuming, possibly soft spoken, quiet, not attractive but not scary or disfigured
Currently married and/or in jail

Some of the parts I left out:
History of rejection with women
Sexual deviant, obsessive sexual preoccupation (lots of time), shame based sexual history
Possible religious upbringing
Possible connection to Gilgo Beach itself and a female encounter gone wrong
This person will stand out as possibly charming but off

I am very interested in some specific things both of you said. If you read this please reach out to me. Thanks

 

[Bose]

Where are White Rabbit and Bose??? Man I just read Rabbit's profile and mine is eerily similar. I really would like to see if we might connect up and hash some of this out further. I posted the following on the profile thread but there are several things I left out that I see in his psychological make-up that match exactly how you see this guy.

Profile:
White Male, current age 40-50
Occupation - law enforcement, public works, or transportation with uniform and vehicle markings
Lives on Long Island near Massapequa/Babylon, works or frequents in Midtown Manhattan.
Possible transplant with a history of visiting the area as a youth
Alcohol and drug user
History of trouble in school and a loner/outsider
Physically unassuming, possibly soft spoken, quiet, not attractive but not scary or disfigured
Currently married and/or in jail

Some of the parts I left out:
History of rejection with women
Sexual deviant, obsessive sexual preoccupation (lots of time), shame based sexual history
Possible religious upbringing
Possible connection to Gilgo Beach itself and a female encounter gone wrong
This person will stand out as possibly charming but off

I am very interested in some specific things both of you said. If you read this please reach out to me. Thanks

Hi HarshReality, I'm here--kind of, just taking a mini break of sorts from digging into info, I spent about a week doing that to refresh myself and I'm a little burnt out. Temporarily. I do like your profile write up, look forward to seeing what White Rabbit has to say. Anything you'd like to talk about, feel free, any questions I'll answer what I can. Welcome to the site!

 

[HarshReality]

Hi Bose - glad you are back and nice to meet you!

The information you posted on your POI is really fascinating and frankly scary so I hope you take all the precautions you need. So many things I want to ask you....

Your POI worked as a ticket agent at an airline in Queens correct? I literally had ticket agent as one of my possible careers for this person. I was thinking a ticket agent at Penn Station. Could you possibly elaborate on the airline job thing? Did you ever visit this person at his job? See his uniform? How certain are you it was an airline? I think you also mentioned he was promoted or changed jobs at some point? A person working for an airline would have exactly the kind of schedule that matches the common days this killer acted and called the families as someone else pointed out.

Since it sounds like at one time you lived in this area can you tell me if someone worked at this airport how would they travel to Long Island? Would there be a reason and an easy way to travel through Penn Station?

Thanks so much for your response.

 

[Bose]

Hi Bose - glad you are back and nice to meet you!

The information you posted on your POI is really fascinating and frankly scary so I hope you take all the precautions you need. So many things I want to ask you....

Your POI worked as a ticket agent at an airline in Queens correct? I literally had ticket agent as one of my possible careers for this person. I was thinking a ticket agent at Penn Station. Could you possibly elaborate on the airline job thing? Did you ever visit this person at his job? See his uniform? How certain are you it was an airline? I think you also mentioned he was promoted or changed jobs at some point? A person working for an airline would have exactly the kind of schedule that matches the common days this killer acted and called the families as someone else pointed out.

Since it sounds like at one time you lived in this area can you tell me if someone worked at this airport how would they travel to Long Island? Would there be a reason and an easy way to travel through Penn Station?

Thanks so much for your response.

Nice to meet you too, HarshReality!

For some answers to your questions:

"The information you posted on your POI is really fascinating and frankly scary so I hope you take all the precautions you need. So many things I want to ask you...."

I'm thankfully, far away now, and in a place of safety, with a fiance who was in the military. I reported everything I could, going back to when the GB4 were found, to not only Suffolk Co., but the FBI, as well. My close friends and family know the situation, so if something were to happen to me, he would be the person to point the finger at. I'll answer whatever I can, in a public forum. Not just for my sake, but for the POIs I have mentioned--if they are not guilty (which is always a possibility), I don't want to defame. I'll mention whatever facts I can, edited as much as I can, to be understandable, but not point a direct finger out in the open and name names. This person, to my knowledge, is not on the larger social radar involving this case, at all.

"Your POI worked as a ticket agent at an airline in Queens correct?"

Yes. There are two airports in Queens. He worked at the airport in Queens that handles international flights. For an airline that begins with a D, with the same Greek name as the covid variant that is going around, right now.

"I was thinking a ticket agent at Penn Station."

He did not work as a ticket agent at Penn Station, I know this for sure. His roommate (my other POI) was a cop who worked in the area of Penn Station/Times Square.

"Could you possibly elaborate on the airline job thing? Did you ever visit this person at his job?..."

Sure. He worked in a gas station for years, when I met him. A few hours here and there during the night shift. Nights off, he used to prostitute in the Long Island area. When I was away, ca. 2004, he befriended a woman he called "the penguin" who worked dispatch for a company. Then, supposedly she got a job at an airline, and urged him to apply. He got the job on the basis of a falsified resume, including college he never went to.

Yes, I did visit him at work, go in with him briefly on one of his days off, for no particular reason, I believe. I met two of his female coworkers, who weren't sure why he was there. One of the women he referred to as his "work wife," though she didn't seem to want to really talk with him, or meet me. He used to call her "fish head." He had strange nicknames for women.

From ticketing agent, he worked his way up to wearing a red coat, and from there, I believe in the last few years left that airline and began working for J*t Bl**, in some sort of supervisor capacity, something to do with logistics, in Long Island City.

"Since it sounds like at one time you lived in this area can you tell me if someone worked at this airport how would they travel to Long Island?"

He would travel from Bayshore, using the Southern State Parkway west out to the airport. On the way home, he sometimes would change part of the route and take Southern State and then go to Meadowbrook State Pkwy going south and cut down to Ocean Parkway going east, and then take the Robert Moses Causeway (Great South Bay Bridge) to an exit on Google Maps named RM2W, I believe, and make way to his house from there.

"Would there be a reason and an easy way to travel through Penn Station?"

For the person he lived with, yes. Penn Station has the Long Island Railroad (LIRR), which connects the Montauk Branch in Long Island to Penn Station in NYC. That person would drive from their house and park the car at the nearest LIRR station, and take the LIRR to and from work, from there.

 

[HarshReality]

Sounds like such a strange individual. Can I ask how you met this person in a general way? When did you start to think they were strange and when did you finally suspect this person might be connected to these crimes? Was it over a long period of time? I can’t even imagine how stressful that must have been.