*graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**
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wenwe4
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Well over half of men of the families ALV works with - up to 2/3 men batter intimate partner in family but not outside of the family unit - carry on a different life . . . have people not know you are abusive in your inttimate relationship.
it is another level to add spiritual dimension to that . . . people of faith - believe who they are . . part of sense of self - go against moral core - . . . one thing not know you are abusive but another thing to not know you live a life that is anti-sthetical ? to what you believe in.
TA had a significant amount to lose, standing with his profesion - he has so many people . .
his 2 closest friends - one heads his PPL division - where he earns his money - he is well thought of there -he is a motivational speaker -
he would lose his priesthood standing. . . I do these things because I adhere to these tenants when in fact you are not adhering to these tenants @ all.
privat things come out . . .in cases of DV fear leads to anger and rage - to people you feel safest targets . . . people who will not tell. - -JA was the safest target.
JA know about his secret life/
yes
compare about questions with JA truthfulness - lies she told began happening after ta was killed. . . lie about killing, lie about whether she was even there, then another lie about 2 intruders who killed TA . . given all lies she told after 6/4/08 do not cause ALV problems in believeablity
no they don't - if JA was a really good liar she would have planned a really good lie and she didnt'
early noon recess - return @ 1:15
JA calling her Atty over . . .
it is another level to add spiritual dimension to that . . . people of faith - believe who they are . . part of sense of self - go against moral core - . . . one thing not know you are abusive but another thing to not know you live a life that is anti-sthetical ? to what you believe in.
TA had a significant amount to lose, standing with his profesion - he has so many people . .
his 2 closest friends - one heads his PPL division - where he earns his money - he is well thought of there -he is a motivational speaker -
he would lose his priesthood standing. . . I do these things because I adhere to these tenants when in fact you are not adhering to these tenants @ all.
privat things come out . . .in cases of DV fear leads to anger and rage - to people you feel safest targets . . . people who will not tell. - -JA was the safest target.
JA know about his secret life/
yes
compare about questions with JA truthfulness - lies she told began happening after ta was killed. . . lie about killing, lie about whether she was even there, then another lie about 2 intruders who killed TA . . given all lies she told after 6/4/08 do not cause ALV problems in believeablity
no they don't - if JA was a really good liar she would have planned a really good lie and she didnt'
early noon recess - return @ 1:15
JA calling her Atty over . . .
wenwe4
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Well over half of men of the families ALV works with - up to 2/3 men batter intimate partner in family but not outside of the family unit - carry on a different life . . . have people not know you are abusive in your inttimate relationship.
it is another level to add spiritual dimension to that . . . people of faith - believe who they are . . part of sense of self - go against moral core - . . . one thing not know you are abusive but another thing to not know you live a life that is anti-sthetical ? to what you believe in.
TA had a significant amount to lose, standing with his profesion - he has so many people . .
his 2 closest friends - one heads his PPL division - where he earns his money - he is well thought of there -he is a motivational speaker -
he would lose his priesthood standing. . . I do these things because I adhere to these tenants when in fact you are not adhering to these tenants @ all.
privat things come out . . .in cases of DV fear leads to anger and rage - to people you feel safest targets . . . people who will not tell. - -JA was the safest target.
JA know about his secret life/
yes
compare about questions with JA truthfulness - lies she told began happening after ta was killed. . . lie about killing, lie about whether she was even there, then another lie about 2 intruders who killed TA . . given all lies she told after 6/4/08 do not cause ALV problems in believeablity
no they don't - if JA was a really good liar she would have planned a really good lie and she didnt'
early noon recess - return @ 1:15
JA calling her Atty over . . .
it is another level to add spiritual dimension to that . . . people of faith - believe who they are . . part of sense of self - go against moral core - . . . one thing not know you are abusive but another thing to not know you live a life that is anti-sthetical ? to what you believe in.
TA had a significant amount to lose, standing with his profesion - he has so many people . .
his 2 closest friends - one heads his PPL division - where he earns his money - he is well thought of there -he is a motivational speaker -
he would lose his priesthood standing. . . I do these things because I adhere to these tenants when in fact you are not adhering to these tenants @ all.
privat things come out . . .in cases of DV fear leads to anger and rage - to people you feel safest targets . . . people who will not tell. - -JA was the safest target.
JA know about his secret life/
yes
compare about questions with JA truthfulness - lies she told began happening after ta was killed. . . lie about killing, lie about whether she was even there, then another lie about 2 intruders who killed TA . . given all lies she told after 6/4/08 do not cause ALV problems in believeablity
no they don't - if JA was a really good liar she would have planned a really good lie and she didnt'
early noon recess - return @ 1:15
JA calling her Atty over . . .
wenwe4
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Jury is out = ALV step down . . . see counsel @ the bench
we are @ recess
ALV went straight out to the court gallery area behind JA's mother's side. . . .
JA standing and drinking water . . wearing black and grey striped sweater
TA's sisters are in the courtroom
Judge is handing papers out to JM
judge pointing to back of the courtroom
Nurmi pointing to his side of the table
Judge is gestering . . .
JW looking into courtroom
Judge discussing something with Nurmi and JW
JA sitting and waiting for the MS to come talk with her - deputy standing over them while they whisper
we are @ recess
ALV went straight out to the court gallery area behind JA's mother's side. . . .
JA standing and drinking water . . wearing black and grey striped sweater
TA's sisters are in the courtroom
Judge is handing papers out to JM
judge pointing to back of the courtroom
Nurmi pointing to his side of the table
Judge is gestering . . .
JW looking into courtroom
Judge discussing something with Nurmi and JW
JA sitting and waiting for the MS to come talk with her - deputy standing over them while they whisper
wenwe4
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
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Jury is out = ALV step down . . . see counsel @ the bench
we are @ recess
ALV went straight out to the court gallery area behind JA's mother's side. . . .
JA standing and drinking water . . wearing black and grey striped sweater
TA's sisters are in the courtroom
Judge is handing papers out to JM
judge pointing to back of the courtroom
Nurmi pointing to his side of the table
Judge is gestering . . .
JW looking into courtroom
Judge discussing something with Nurmi and JW
JA sitting and waiting for the MS to come talk with her - deputy standing over them while they whisper
we are @ recess
ALV went straight out to the court gallery area behind JA's mother's side. . . .
JA standing and drinking water . . wearing black and grey striped sweater
TA's sisters are in the courtroom
Judge is handing papers out to JM
judge pointing to back of the courtroom
Nurmi pointing to his side of the table
Judge is gestering . . .
JW looking into courtroom
Judge discussing something with Nurmi and JW
JA sitting and waiting for the MS to come talk with her - deputy standing over them while they whisper
wenwe4
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- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 9,499
- Reaction score
- 7,359
Missed some questions . . .
from the jurors to ALV
what did you learn about TA?
motivational speaker - quite good @ it - knew his scriptures, came from incredibly abusive background and childhood - background was tough - made fun of he was unable to bathe sometimes . . he and siblings endured verbal, emotional, physical neglect . . he was attracted and appealed to numbers of women . .
friendship with the Hughes - over 5 years they learned how he treated women . . learned how he talked to JA in general and in private
first met JA she was very protective of TA . . . very hard time looking @ self as battered woman - saw self as 2 to tango kind of thing . .. other cases where people t ry to convince me who they are . . I found that not to be true with JA . .. she was never described as lying .. .I know she lied in high school - or kept things from her parents - very typical of teenagers - people lie in their lives . . .Lance Armstrong, Arch Bishop lied, many others have lied
could JA exaggerated to help to her case?
she could have but she tended to minimize more than exaggerate - she would tend to describe them as less than or not happeing all the time
possible friend and family may have embellished in order to help heri
I guess except friends and family didn't seem to go over board - way TA talked to her and the kind of disrespect toward her - escalation process . . . her family said in statements in other ways as well - not trying to paint her with a white brush
TA pushed sexual limits - start talk to someone - make sexual innuendos and see if it would open the door . . .he would also try to push PPL on them - if he sold them pPL he would get credits for it. . . he read some women very well and some irriated women . . some of them he would read well and back off sort of fast . . . some women shared his faith . . he wsa so well versed - he was able to have confidence . .. he was friends on paper . .one of his friends was married and her hubby wouldn't let her have friends and he told her to go to the bishop - that is not right . . . he shouldn't treat her that way
another woman's ex- husband watching *advertiser censored*. and emotionally abusive . . ..
is it possible for women in abusive relationships just snap and attempt violence against long standing perps?
when they snap in a lethal way we find that . . .
objection
approach
from the jurors to ALV
what did you learn about TA?
motivational speaker - quite good @ it - knew his scriptures, came from incredibly abusive background and childhood - background was tough - made fun of he was unable to bathe sometimes . . he and siblings endured verbal, emotional, physical neglect . . he was attracted and appealed to numbers of women . .
friendship with the Hughes - over 5 years they learned how he treated women . . learned how he talked to JA in general and in private
first met JA she was very protective of TA . . . very hard time looking @ self as battered woman - saw self as 2 to tango kind of thing . .. other cases where people t ry to convince me who they are . . I found that not to be true with JA . .. she was never described as lying .. .I know she lied in high school - or kept things from her parents - very typical of teenagers - people lie in their lives . . .Lance Armstrong, Arch Bishop lied, many others have lied
could JA exaggerated to help to her case?
she could have but she tended to minimize more than exaggerate - she would tend to describe them as less than or not happeing all the time
possible friend and family may have embellished in order to help heri
I guess except friends and family didn't seem to go over board - way TA talked to her and the kind of disrespect toward her - escalation process . . . her family said in statements in other ways as well - not trying to paint her with a white brush
TA pushed sexual limits - start talk to someone - make sexual innuendos and see if it would open the door . . .he would also try to push PPL on them - if he sold them pPL he would get credits for it. . . he read some women very well and some irriated women . . some of them he would read well and back off sort of fast . . . some women shared his faith . . he wsa so well versed - he was able to have confidence . .. he was friends on paper . .one of his friends was married and her hubby wouldn't let her have friends and he told her to go to the bishop - that is not right . . . he shouldn't treat her that way
another woman's ex- husband watching *advertiser censored*. and emotionally abusive . . ..
is it possible for women in abusive relationships just snap and attempt violence against long standing perps?
when they snap in a lethal way we find that . . .
objection
approach
wenwe4
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Missed some questions . . .
from the jurors to ALV
what did you learn about TA?
motivational speaker - quite good @ it - knew his scriptures, came from incredibly abusive background and childhood - background was tough - made fun of he was unable to bathe sometimes . . he and siblings endured verbal, emotional, physical neglect . . he was attracted and appealed to numbers of women . .
friendship with the Hughes - over 5 years they learned how he treated women . . learned how he talked to JA in general and in private
first met JA she was very protective of TA . . . very hard time looking @ self as battered woman - saw self as 2 to tango kind of thing . .. other cases where people t ry to convince me who they are . . I found that not to be true with JA . .. she was never described as lying .. .I know she lied in high school - or kept things from her parents - very typical of teenagers - people lie in their lives . . .Lance Armstrong, Arch Bishop lied, many others have lied
could JA exaggerated to help to her case?
she could have but she tended to minimize more than exaggerate - she would tend to describe them as less than or not happeing all the time
possible friend and family may have embellished in order to help heri
I guess except friends and family didn't seem to go over board - way TA talked to her and the kind of disrespect toward her - escalation process . . . her family said in statements in other ways as well - not trying to paint her with a white brush
TA pushed sexual limits - start talk to someone - make sexual innuendos and see if it would open the door . . .he would also try to push PPL on them - if he sold them pPL he would get credits for it. . . he read some women very well and some irriated women . . some of them he would read well and back off sort of fast . . . some women shared his faith . . he wsa so well versed - he was able to have confidence . .. he was friends on paper . .one of his friends was married and her hubby wouldn't let her have friends and he told her to go to the bishop - that is not right . . . he shouldn't treat her that way
another woman's ex- husband watching *advertiser censored*. and emotionally abusive . . ..
is it possible for women in abusive relationships just snap and attempt violence against long standing perps?
when they snap in a lethal way we find that . . .
objection
approach
from the jurors to ALV
what did you learn about TA?
motivational speaker - quite good @ it - knew his scriptures, came from incredibly abusive background and childhood - background was tough - made fun of he was unable to bathe sometimes . . he and siblings endured verbal, emotional, physical neglect . . he was attracted and appealed to numbers of women . .
friendship with the Hughes - over 5 years they learned how he treated women . . learned how he talked to JA in general and in private
first met JA she was very protective of TA . . . very hard time looking @ self as battered woman - saw self as 2 to tango kind of thing . .. other cases where people t ry to convince me who they are . . I found that not to be true with JA . .. she was never described as lying .. .I know she lied in high school - or kept things from her parents - very typical of teenagers - people lie in their lives . . .Lance Armstrong, Arch Bishop lied, many others have lied
could JA exaggerated to help to her case?
she could have but she tended to minimize more than exaggerate - she would tend to describe them as less than or not happeing all the time
possible friend and family may have embellished in order to help heri
I guess except friends and family didn't seem to go over board - way TA talked to her and the kind of disrespect toward her - escalation process . . . her family said in statements in other ways as well - not trying to paint her with a white brush
TA pushed sexual limits - start talk to someone - make sexual innuendos and see if it would open the door . . .he would also try to push PPL on them - if he sold them pPL he would get credits for it. . . he read some women very well and some irriated women . . some of them he would read well and back off sort of fast . . . some women shared his faith . . he wsa so well versed - he was able to have confidence . .. he was friends on paper . .one of his friends was married and her hubby wouldn't let her have friends and he told her to go to the bishop - that is not right . . . he shouldn't treat her that way
another woman's ex- husband watching *advertiser censored*. and emotionally abusive . . ..
is it possible for women in abusive relationships just snap and attempt violence against long standing perps?
when they snap in a lethal way we find that . . .
objection
approach
wenwe4
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common to see violent resistance . . . hit back, yell back . . scream @ somebody . . it could be physical and it could be violent - that person could hit that person back . . in ALV experience haven't seen it with a weapon
JA has kicked her Mom, slapped her Mom, called her sister stupid . .. I believe that was when she was a teenager . . .not approve of that not great to do but teens do things and anger with her Mom but I haven't seen her as an adult have physical violence with her Mom . . why would perp be violent with someone and not with another .. . what I have seen with Ta that most of his relationships were not long term . . usually see a progression of physical and emotional violence you would see over time . . in addition relationship with Miss Andrews felt disrespected and they broke up 3 times and it was just a few months . . . other women were via internet and IM's it is really not difficult to not see that aggression when you are not spending time with that person . . . when they spend more time they have intimiate relationship . . .person most connected to is one they wind up being most abusive to
victims kill partners as they see no other way out . . other cases you have worked on?
on one case that was true - I have worked with lots of battered women they have been
objection - lack foundation
you may approach
JA has kicked her Mom, slapped her Mom, called her sister stupid . .. I believe that was when she was a teenager . . .not approve of that not great to do but teens do things and anger with her Mom but I haven't seen her as an adult have physical violence with her Mom . . why would perp be violent with someone and not with another .. . what I have seen with Ta that most of his relationships were not long term . . usually see a progression of physical and emotional violence you would see over time . . in addition relationship with Miss Andrews felt disrespected and they broke up 3 times and it was just a few months . . . other women were via internet and IM's it is really not difficult to not see that aggression when you are not spending time with that person . . . when they spend more time they have intimiate relationship . . .person most connected to is one they wind up being most abusive to
victims kill partners as they see no other way out . . other cases you have worked on?
on one case that was true - I have worked with lots of battered women they have been
objection - lack foundation
you may approach
wenwe4
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common to see violent resistance . . . hit back, yell back . . scream @ somebody . . it could be physical and it could be violent - that person could hit that person back . . in ALV experience haven't seen it with a weapon
JA has kicked her Mom, slapped her Mom, called her sister stupid . .. I believe that was when she was a teenager . . .not approve of that not great to do but teens do things and anger with her Mom but I haven't seen her as an adult have physical violence with her Mom . . why would perp be violent with someone and not with another .. . what I have seen with Ta that most of his relationships were not long term . . usually see a progression of physical and emotional violence you would see over time . . in addition relationship with Miss Andrews felt disrespected and they broke up 3 times and it was just a few months . . . other women were via internet and IM's it is really not difficult to not see that aggression when you are not spending time with that person . . . when they spend more time they have intimiate relationship . . .person most connected to is one they wind up being most abusive to
victims kill partners as they see no other way out . . other cases you have worked on?
on one case that was true - I have worked with lots of battered women they have been
objection - lack foundation
you may approach
JA has kicked her Mom, slapped her Mom, called her sister stupid . .. I believe that was when she was a teenager . . .not approve of that not great to do but teens do things and anger with her Mom but I haven't seen her as an adult have physical violence with her Mom . . why would perp be violent with someone and not with another .. . what I have seen with Ta that most of his relationships were not long term . . usually see a progression of physical and emotional violence you would see over time . . in addition relationship with Miss Andrews felt disrespected and they broke up 3 times and it was just a few months . . . other women were via internet and IM's it is really not difficult to not see that aggression when you are not spending time with that person . . . when they spend more time they have intimiate relationship . . .person most connected to is one they wind up being most abusive to
victims kill partners as they see no other way out . . other cases you have worked on?
on one case that was true - I have worked with lots of battered women they have been
objection - lack foundation
you may approach
wenwe4
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conceivable woman kill partner just to get away from abuse - yes but rare
victim and perpetrator? . . generally dv doesn't stay at that level . . .research says men and women violent with each other most cases men get more violent
no evidence of verbal confrontations you don't see JA trying to increase escalation . . she tries to calm escalation - element of fear in that relationship - I don't see fear or behaviors trying to adjust to the relationship - TA appears to be . .
in her prior two relationships . . . not violent aggressive or jealous
kick mother in past could she been seen as perpetrator?
she could be seen . . . when I look @ perps I hm looking @ power differences
people in a relationship
possible ja exaggerating abuse events? . . .anything is possible
look @ escalation seen with TA
listen to what Hughes have said it is difficult to believe that
high conflict and abuse columns but exaggerating they lean more toward battering and terrorism . .
actually not - it is kind of names and put down and that kind of thing - don't fit in high conflict . . . goes way beyond that said in IM's and texts . . . to ALV abhorrent . . . psychological verbal abuse in a battering kind of range not just abusive kind of range - past that
if don't have whole story on both individuals . . . when working on a murder case you don't have . . . for the most part an expert witness doesn't have access to other side of the equation . . . you gather data and all provided to you . . . I try to get as much of the other person that I can I have a big box of material over the last year and half . . my goal is to get as much info as I can I don't want to be biased . . don't want to see one person point of view . . . in your opinion could ja be a Perp of Travis?
don't see evidence of that
JA guilty of psychological abuse of travis - given we are not privy to their private conversations
I have no evidence of that - in prior relationships I didn't get that from Brewer for 4 years nor MM with her for 2 years indicating she was not jealous, manipulative when they broke up . . . they remained friend
defensive instead of abusive?
any of us can get angry, abusive or defensive . . .tear someone carachter apart . . . that is way . . .bit of extreme @ lower levels and when he escalates it is pretty darn extreme
can 2 individuals grow up in violence later become
sure . . you and your siblings can see things differently . . . friends parent, AUNT, uncle, someone there on regular basis - blame self or blame parent or stay clear of situation . . .scouting troop - part of soft ball or baseball team . . some impact .. . brain development is exponential between 0-6 . . .
disposition, how you come out how you takes things in . . make difference - in family of origin - if neglected, without food, parents violent with each other - generally speaking you will need some help in relationships - if you don't hear or see normal relationships
I wish I could get a complete story from TA . . I can't - only get info from women he involved with, his own writing, I don't think I got a complete story I got as a complete story I could get . .
if low self-esteem and they do something for their partner they don't like ...and shy person doesn't share with them - is that abusive?
it wouldn't take much to know that being called
objection . . . verbal
how quick can escalate from first time people meet
usually there is period of time that doesn't happen . . . don't get into those type of relationships . . .it is differenet . . .once see it there is an escalation . .. over time
prior to JA . . do you know who TA girlfriend was?
a woman named Deanna
believed they together on/off 7 years - she went on a mission she was gone 2 years = TA didn't want her to go - they wrote letters to each other - continued to have a relationship of some sort he thought he took the best 7 yearsr of her life and she deserved a partner . . . loaned him money for a business he started - doesn't know if she got $ back but asked for it
testimony has been based on what JA told you - she lied multiple times - how do you know you are not basing it on lie . . . everything she is saying is truthful
I based it on . . .
objection - how can she
I didn't just base it on what ja told me. . everything I read all materials I read from numerous sourves = I don't know everything she told me was true - I have enough back up from collateral to believe she told me the truth about most things . . the fact she lied about the truth about death of TA doesn't make her a liar - she is human being . . . don't get prior to this event that says JA is a liar
any proof TA abused JA
she had a broken finger
possible ja didn't write those things in her journal because they never happened
it is possible TA didn't write in his either
if JA kicked and hit her mom why not she be plaed in high group for violence on the conflict tactic scale -
only for adudlts not kids
patients killed their partner
yes
JA abused TA?
no evidence of it . . . .nothing in her history in other men in her life or exchanges between 2 of them she had . . there is possible anything but no evidence that supports that
classify their relationship as a love/hate?
classify it as abusive relationship
love/hate relationship - on my continuum - high conflict -people stay together . . don't solve conflict well . . . erodes their relationship stopped caring about each other see as friends but there is an inbalance of power but it goes back and forth
victim of abuse would do this . ..
my experiences with females who are victims when they are afraid of their lives they would not know when to stop . . . people who are trained in combat like police officers or military . . . they often go over the top - excessive force . . hard for anyone o know when to stop - when they would be safe
other than JA word - evidence JA received spiderman underwear and tee shirt with TA
has journal continued to write in her journal after JUNE
don"t know
spent forty four hours with her
first visit was oct
victim and perpetrator? . . generally dv doesn't stay at that level . . .research says men and women violent with each other most cases men get more violent
no evidence of verbal confrontations you don't see JA trying to increase escalation . . she tries to calm escalation - element of fear in that relationship - I don't see fear or behaviors trying to adjust to the relationship - TA appears to be . .
in her prior two relationships . . . not violent aggressive or jealous
kick mother in past could she been seen as perpetrator?
she could be seen . . . when I look @ perps I hm looking @ power differences
people in a relationship
possible ja exaggerating abuse events? . . .anything is possible
look @ escalation seen with TA
listen to what Hughes have said it is difficult to believe that
high conflict and abuse columns but exaggerating they lean more toward battering and terrorism . .
actually not - it is kind of names and put down and that kind of thing - don't fit in high conflict . . . goes way beyond that said in IM's and texts . . . to ALV abhorrent . . . psychological verbal abuse in a battering kind of range not just abusive kind of range - past that
if don't have whole story on both individuals . . . when working on a murder case you don't have . . . for the most part an expert witness doesn't have access to other side of the equation . . . you gather data and all provided to you . . . I try to get as much of the other person that I can I have a big box of material over the last year and half . . my goal is to get as much info as I can I don't want to be biased . . don't want to see one person point of view . . . in your opinion could ja be a Perp of Travis?
don't see evidence of that
JA guilty of psychological abuse of travis - given we are not privy to their private conversations
I have no evidence of that - in prior relationships I didn't get that from Brewer for 4 years nor MM with her for 2 years indicating she was not jealous, manipulative when they broke up . . . they remained friend
defensive instead of abusive?
any of us can get angry, abusive or defensive . . .tear someone carachter apart . . . that is way . . .bit of extreme @ lower levels and when he escalates it is pretty darn extreme
can 2 individuals grow up in violence later become
sure . . you and your siblings can see things differently . . . friends parent, AUNT, uncle, someone there on regular basis - blame self or blame parent or stay clear of situation . . .scouting troop - part of soft ball or baseball team . . some impact .. . brain development is exponential between 0-6 . . .
disposition, how you come out how you takes things in . . make difference - in family of origin - if neglected, without food, parents violent with each other - generally speaking you will need some help in relationships - if you don't hear or see normal relationships
I wish I could get a complete story from TA . . I can't - only get info from women he involved with, his own writing, I don't think I got a complete story I got as a complete story I could get . .
if low self-esteem and they do something for their partner they don't like ...and shy person doesn't share with them - is that abusive?
it wouldn't take much to know that being called
objection . . . verbal
how quick can escalate from first time people meet
usually there is period of time that doesn't happen . . . don't get into those type of relationships . . .it is differenet . . .once see it there is an escalation . .. over time
prior to JA . . do you know who TA girlfriend was?
a woman named Deanna
believed they together on/off 7 years - she went on a mission she was gone 2 years = TA didn't want her to go - they wrote letters to each other - continued to have a relationship of some sort he thought he took the best 7 yearsr of her life and she deserved a partner . . . loaned him money for a business he started - doesn't know if she got $ back but asked for it
testimony has been based on what JA told you - she lied multiple times - how do you know you are not basing it on lie . . . everything she is saying is truthful
I based it on . . .
objection - how can she
I didn't just base it on what ja told me. . everything I read all materials I read from numerous sourves = I don't know everything she told me was true - I have enough back up from collateral to believe she told me the truth about most things . . the fact she lied about the truth about death of TA doesn't make her a liar - she is human being . . . don't get prior to this event that says JA is a liar
any proof TA abused JA
she had a broken finger
possible ja didn't write those things in her journal because they never happened
it is possible TA didn't write in his either
if JA kicked and hit her mom why not she be plaed in high group for violence on the conflict tactic scale -
only for adudlts not kids
patients killed their partner
yes
JA abused TA?
no evidence of it . . . .nothing in her history in other men in her life or exchanges between 2 of them she had . . there is possible anything but no evidence that supports that
classify their relationship as a love/hate?
classify it as abusive relationship
love/hate relationship - on my continuum - high conflict -people stay together . . don't solve conflict well . . . erodes their relationship stopped caring about each other see as friends but there is an inbalance of power but it goes back and forth
victim of abuse would do this . ..
my experiences with females who are victims when they are afraid of their lives they would not know when to stop . . . people who are trained in combat like police officers or military . . . they often go over the top - excessive force . . hard for anyone o know when to stop - when they would be safe
other than JA word - evidence JA received spiderman underwear and tee shirt with TA
has journal continued to write in her journal after JUNE
don"t know
spent forty four hours with her
first visit was oct
wenwe4
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 9,499
- Reaction score
- 7,359
conceivable woman kill partner just to get away from abuse - yes but rare
victim and perpetrator? . . generally dv doesn't stay at that level . . .research says men and women violent with each other most cases men get more violent
no evidence of verbal confrontations you don't see JA trying to increase escalation . . she tries to calm escalation - element of fear in that relationship - I don't see fear or behaviors trying to adjust to the relationship - TA appears to be . .
in her prior two relationships . . . not violent aggressive or jealous
kick mother in past could she been seen as perpetrator?
she could be seen . . . when I look @ perps I hm looking @ power differences
people in a relationship
possible ja exaggerating abuse events? . . .anything is possible
look @ escalation seen with TA
listen to what Hughes have said it is difficult to believe that
high conflict and abuse columns but exaggerating they lean more toward battering and terrorism . .
actually not - it is kind of names and put down and that kind of thing - don't fit in high conflict . . . goes way beyond that said in IM's and texts . . . to ALV abhorrent . . . psychological verbal abuse in a battering kind of range not just abusive kind of range - past that
if don't have whole story on both individuals . . . when working on a murder case you don't have . . . for the most part an expert witness doesn't have access to other side of the equation . . . you gather data and all provided to you . . . I try to get as much of the other person that I can I have a big box of material over the last year and half . . my goal is to get as much info as I can I don't want to be biased . . don't want to see one person point of view . . . in your opinion could ja be a Perp of Travis?
don't see evidence of that
JA guilty of psychological abuse of travis - given we are not privy to their private conversations
I have no evidence of that - in prior relationships I didn't get that from Brewer for 4 years nor MM with her for 2 years indicating she was not jealous, manipulative when they broke up . . . they remained friend
defensive instead of abusive?
any of us can get angry, abusive or defensive . . .tear someone carachter apart . . . that is way . . .bit of extreme @ lower levels and when he escalates it is pretty darn extreme
can 2 individuals grow up in violence later become
sure . . you and your siblings can see things differently . . . friends parent, AUNT, uncle, someone there on regular basis - blame self or blame parent or stay clear of situation . . .scouting troop - part of soft ball or baseball team . . some impact .. . brain development is exponential between 0-6 . . .
disposition, how you come out how you takes things in . . make difference - in family of origin - if neglected, without food, parents violent with each other - generally speaking you will need some help in relationships - if you don't hear or see normal relationships
I wish I could get a complete story from TA . . I can't - only get info from women he involved with, his own writing, I don't think I got a complete story I got as a complete story I could get . .
if low self-esteem and they do something for their partner they don't like ...and shy person doesn't share with them - is that abusive?
it wouldn't take much to know that being called
objection . . . verbal
how quick can escalate from first time people meet
usually there is period of time that doesn't happen . . . don't get into those type of relationships . . .it is differenet . . .once see it there is an escalation . .. over time
prior to JA . . do you know who TA girlfriend was?
a woman named Deanna
believed they together on/off 7 years - she went on a mission she was gone 2 years = TA didn't want her to go - they wrote letters to each other - continued to have a relationship of some sort he thought he took the best 7 yearsr of her life and she deserved a partner . . . loaned him money for a business he started - doesn't know if she got $ back but asked for it
testimony has been based on what JA told you - she lied multiple times - how do you know you are not basing it on lie . . . everything she is saying is truthful
I based it on . . .
objection - how can she
I didn't just base it on what ja told me. . everything I read all materials I read from numerous sourves = I don't know everything she told me was true - I have enough back up from collateral to believe she told me the truth about most things . . the fact she lied about the truth about death of TA doesn't make her a liar - she is human being . . . don't get prior to this event that says JA is a liar
any proof TA abused JA
she had a broken finger
possible ja didn't write those things in her journal because they never happened
it is possible TA didn't write in his either
if JA kicked and hit her mom why not she be plaed in high group for violence on the conflict tactic scale -
only for adudlts not kids
patients killed their partner
yes
JA abused TA?
no evidence of it . . . .nothing in her history in other men in her life or exchanges between 2 of them she had . . there is possible anything but no evidence that supports that
classify their relationship as a love/hate?
classify it as abusive relationship
love/hate relationship - on my continuum - high conflict -people stay together . . don't solve conflict well . . . erodes their relationship stopped caring about each other see as friends but there is an inbalance of power but it goes back and forth
victim of abuse would do this . ..
my experiences with females who are victims when they are afraid of their lives they would not know when to stop . . . people who are trained in combat like police officers or military . . . they often go over the top - excessive force . . hard for anyone o know when to stop - when they would be safe
other than JA word - evidence JA received spiderman underwear and tee shirt with TA
has journal continued to write in her journal after JUNE
don"t know
spent forty four hours with her
first visit was oct
victim and perpetrator? . . generally dv doesn't stay at that level . . .research says men and women violent with each other most cases men get more violent
no evidence of verbal confrontations you don't see JA trying to increase escalation . . she tries to calm escalation - element of fear in that relationship - I don't see fear or behaviors trying to adjust to the relationship - TA appears to be . .
in her prior two relationships . . . not violent aggressive or jealous
kick mother in past could she been seen as perpetrator?
she could be seen . . . when I look @ perps I hm looking @ power differences
people in a relationship
possible ja exaggerating abuse events? . . .anything is possible
look @ escalation seen with TA
listen to what Hughes have said it is difficult to believe that
high conflict and abuse columns but exaggerating they lean more toward battering and terrorism . .
actually not - it is kind of names and put down and that kind of thing - don't fit in high conflict . . . goes way beyond that said in IM's and texts . . . to ALV abhorrent . . . psychological verbal abuse in a battering kind of range not just abusive kind of range - past that
if don't have whole story on both individuals . . . when working on a murder case you don't have . . . for the most part an expert witness doesn't have access to other side of the equation . . . you gather data and all provided to you . . . I try to get as much of the other person that I can I have a big box of material over the last year and half . . my goal is to get as much info as I can I don't want to be biased . . don't want to see one person point of view . . . in your opinion could ja be a Perp of Travis?
don't see evidence of that
JA guilty of psychological abuse of travis - given we are not privy to their private conversations
I have no evidence of that - in prior relationships I didn't get that from Brewer for 4 years nor MM with her for 2 years indicating she was not jealous, manipulative when they broke up . . . they remained friend
defensive instead of abusive?
any of us can get angry, abusive or defensive . . .tear someone carachter apart . . . that is way . . .bit of extreme @ lower levels and when he escalates it is pretty darn extreme
can 2 individuals grow up in violence later become
sure . . you and your siblings can see things differently . . . friends parent, AUNT, uncle, someone there on regular basis - blame self or blame parent or stay clear of situation . . .scouting troop - part of soft ball or baseball team . . some impact .. . brain development is exponential between 0-6 . . .
disposition, how you come out how you takes things in . . make difference - in family of origin - if neglected, without food, parents violent with each other - generally speaking you will need some help in relationships - if you don't hear or see normal relationships
I wish I could get a complete story from TA . . I can't - only get info from women he involved with, his own writing, I don't think I got a complete story I got as a complete story I could get . .
if low self-esteem and they do something for their partner they don't like ...and shy person doesn't share with them - is that abusive?
it wouldn't take much to know that being called
objection . . . verbal
how quick can escalate from first time people meet
usually there is period of time that doesn't happen . . . don't get into those type of relationships . . .it is differenet . . .once see it there is an escalation . .. over time
prior to JA . . do you know who TA girlfriend was?
a woman named Deanna
believed they together on/off 7 years - she went on a mission she was gone 2 years = TA didn't want her to go - they wrote letters to each other - continued to have a relationship of some sort he thought he took the best 7 yearsr of her life and she deserved a partner . . . loaned him money for a business he started - doesn't know if she got $ back but asked for it
testimony has been based on what JA told you - she lied multiple times - how do you know you are not basing it on lie . . . everything she is saying is truthful
I based it on . . .
objection - how can she
I didn't just base it on what ja told me. . everything I read all materials I read from numerous sourves = I don't know everything she told me was true - I have enough back up from collateral to believe she told me the truth about most things . . the fact she lied about the truth about death of TA doesn't make her a liar - she is human being . . . don't get prior to this event that says JA is a liar
any proof TA abused JA
she had a broken finger
possible ja didn't write those things in her journal because they never happened
it is possible TA didn't write in his either
if JA kicked and hit her mom why not she be plaed in high group for violence on the conflict tactic scale -
only for adudlts not kids
patients killed their partner
yes
JA abused TA?
no evidence of it . . . .nothing in her history in other men in her life or exchanges between 2 of them she had . . there is possible anything but no evidence that supports that
classify their relationship as a love/hate?
classify it as abusive relationship
love/hate relationship - on my continuum - high conflict -people stay together . . don't solve conflict well . . . erodes their relationship stopped caring about each other see as friends but there is an inbalance of power but it goes back and forth
victim of abuse would do this . ..
my experiences with females who are victims when they are afraid of their lives they would not know when to stop . . . people who are trained in combat like police officers or military . . . they often go over the top - excessive force . . hard for anyone o know when to stop - when they would be safe
other than JA word - evidence JA received spiderman underwear and tee shirt with TA
has journal continued to write in her journal after JUNE
don"t know
spent forty four hours with her
first visit was oct
wenwe4
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 9,499
- Reaction score
- 7,359
JA slapped across face _ her words?
no on the jaw _ important to me about the slap
did ja lie to you?
I don"t have reason to believe it> > no evidence _ it is possible but when I am looking @ issue of abuse >>>
ISSUES
DV
COMPELLING EVIDENCE OF DV or I would not be here
describe
most signivicant factor in adult abusive relationsjihp is growing up with abusive relationshijp . . . most significant factor is grow up with
very violent episodes - his father kicked his door down, thrown across room by his mom, no food, sleeping off a meth high for days dad was gone . . find piece of moldy bread to eat and he aate it . . he awakened
connection is when you are submitted and exposed to that kind of violence . . . combat ready . . hypervigilent survival mode the world as it affects me . . .look out for self . . direct link what yo are exposed to and how you handle it and especially if there is no intervention by people who handle it correctly
are you saying JA would lay there and possibly die will not fight back
I don't know what she was thinking . . said she didn't want to hurt him and knew she would have to hurt him
controlling mean physically abusive?
no . . . can have manipulate and psychological control
TA ex-girlfriends besisdes JA said TA was physically abusive to them?
no
May 10 2008 running joke between 2 of the
may 26 IM's and text - if JA was that upset with TA talking to her that way why not stop talking to him
I don't know
other than JA did you interview anyone else face to face
no I did not
aware JA's grandparents house broken into 2 days after they had the fight on the text messages
yes
different females TA talked to . . .wasn't it known fact he was looking for someone to marry . .
it was a known fact - the conversations would not lead you to believe trying to woo or court someone for marriage - they were very flirtatious and sexual from the beginning
you said one person had more power - is that because one gives it not the other commands it?
yes - you don't have to be abusive because someone gives you power . . . doesn't mean abusive
any women w/TA relationsnhip other than JA . . alleged TA psychological, emotional, physical. . . Lisa Andrews . . suck if she wanted to be a teacher but a good teacher . . there is another woman Nicole who said that . .
objection - overruled
who said TA . . no one would want to date her because she was like her boyfriend - like the man she ended up being with . . these are not long relationships
all interviews . . . anyone suspicious of abuse on TA or JA?
MM said ja confided in him . . verbal abuse by talking to JA but suspected phsyial abuse.
used to use term victim of DV but people have been using term survivor - it is more powerful word tham victim
could a survivor be a perpetrator
yes . . violent resistance . . .victim of dv lashes out . . term coined in calif. - dominant aggressor . . primary offender - person with most power in this relationship . .
nothing in JA journals saying she was jealous - law of attraction
it could but she listed some negative things came out in her journal . . . aoub Ta being cruel
could a female abuse, batter or terrorize a man to point of killing him
yes women can be perpetrators - percentage - continuum high end . . surveys . . . overwhelmingly in violent crimes
we keep hearing him and perpetrator
perp can be a she
how many times you meet with jody and what dates
first date oct 2011 . . there was a time in Aug when my daughter got married . . . not certain of all the dates - need my calendar
during testimony many things actually happened - photos of young boys . . . basing on just what JA told you -
yes on what JA told ALV and sex tape when he talks about corking the pod . . .
you claim not getting med attention for her finger - consistent with other battered women . . . what prevent them from seek attention but lie about the cause
many do lie about the cause . . . people go to dr and make report and lie . . .in this particular incident
claim TA name call turned into character assassination . . . if name call only between ta and ja would this not be just name calling if not in presence of others . . .
tearing apart if spending time together . .. you don't have another mirror . . .most does not happen in front of others
in complete couples assessment - confirm and validate your concerns - you only talked to one person - how base your decision is accurate?
collaborative information . . . . TA was asked what he liked and he said I don't like *advertiser censored*.
voicemail box was full - ta ordered her to empty it out . . . . there is an implied You empty it . .
TA was not able to leave voice mail for week -
sure he can be irrirated it is matter of what you do and how far you go when you are irrirted - pattern used to handle it . . it is so far over the top - that is alv - concern
relationship - abusive . . .why not look further into TA text that he feared JA . .
I actually read and continued to read texts occurring at that time - didn't see anything else led her to believe he was feeling afraid . . read other texts he had writing to other people and to JA . . .
stalkers do not . . .
10 min recess
no on the jaw _ important to me about the slap
did ja lie to you?
I don"t have reason to believe it> > no evidence _ it is possible but when I am looking @ issue of abuse >>>
ISSUES
DV
COMPELLING EVIDENCE OF DV or I would not be here
describe
most signivicant factor in adult abusive relationsjihp is growing up with abusive relationshijp . . . most significant factor is grow up with
very violent episodes - his father kicked his door down, thrown across room by his mom, no food, sleeping off a meth high for days dad was gone . . find piece of moldy bread to eat and he aate it . . he awakened
connection is when you are submitted and exposed to that kind of violence . . . combat ready . . hypervigilent survival mode the world as it affects me . . .look out for self . . direct link what yo are exposed to and how you handle it and especially if there is no intervention by people who handle it correctly
are you saying JA would lay there and possibly die will not fight back
I don't know what she was thinking . . said she didn't want to hurt him and knew she would have to hurt him
controlling mean physically abusive?
no . . . can have manipulate and psychological control
TA ex-girlfriends besisdes JA said TA was physically abusive to them?
no
May 10 2008 running joke between 2 of the
may 26 IM's and text - if JA was that upset with TA talking to her that way why not stop talking to him
I don't know
other than JA did you interview anyone else face to face
no I did not
aware JA's grandparents house broken into 2 days after they had the fight on the text messages
yes
different females TA talked to . . .wasn't it known fact he was looking for someone to marry . .
it was a known fact - the conversations would not lead you to believe trying to woo or court someone for marriage - they were very flirtatious and sexual from the beginning
you said one person had more power - is that because one gives it not the other commands it?
yes - you don't have to be abusive because someone gives you power . . . doesn't mean abusive
any women w/TA relationsnhip other than JA . . alleged TA psychological, emotional, physical. . . Lisa Andrews . . suck if she wanted to be a teacher but a good teacher . . there is another woman Nicole who said that . .
objection - overruled
who said TA . . no one would want to date her because she was like her boyfriend - like the man she ended up being with . . these are not long relationships
all interviews . . . anyone suspicious of abuse on TA or JA?
MM said ja confided in him . . verbal abuse by talking to JA but suspected phsyial abuse.
used to use term victim of DV but people have been using term survivor - it is more powerful word tham victim
could a survivor be a perpetrator
yes . . violent resistance . . .victim of dv lashes out . . term coined in calif. - dominant aggressor . . primary offender - person with most power in this relationship . .
nothing in JA journals saying she was jealous - law of attraction
it could but she listed some negative things came out in her journal . . . aoub Ta being cruel
could a female abuse, batter or terrorize a man to point of killing him
yes women can be perpetrators - percentage - continuum high end . . surveys . . . overwhelmingly in violent crimes
we keep hearing him and perpetrator
perp can be a she
how many times you meet with jody and what dates
first date oct 2011 . . there was a time in Aug when my daughter got married . . . not certain of all the dates - need my calendar
during testimony many things actually happened - photos of young boys . . . basing on just what JA told you -
yes on what JA told ALV and sex tape when he talks about corking the pod . . .
you claim not getting med attention for her finger - consistent with other battered women . . . what prevent them from seek attention but lie about the cause
many do lie about the cause . . . people go to dr and make report and lie . . .in this particular incident
claim TA name call turned into character assassination . . . if name call only between ta and ja would this not be just name calling if not in presence of others . . .
tearing apart if spending time together . .. you don't have another mirror . . .most does not happen in front of others
in complete couples assessment - confirm and validate your concerns - you only talked to one person - how base your decision is accurate?
collaborative information . . . . TA was asked what he liked and he said I don't like *advertiser censored*.
voicemail box was full - ta ordered her to empty it out . . . . there is an implied You empty it . .
TA was not able to leave voice mail for week -
sure he can be irrirated it is matter of what you do and how far you go when you are irrirted - pattern used to handle it . . it is so far over the top - that is alv - concern
relationship - abusive . . .why not look further into TA text that he feared JA . .
I actually read and continued to read texts occurring at that time - didn't see anything else led her to believe he was feeling afraid . . read other texts he had writing to other people and to JA . . .
stalkers do not . . .
10 min recess
wenwe4
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 9,499
- Reaction score
- 7,359
JA slapped across face _ her words?
no on the jaw _ important to me about the slap
did ja lie to you?
I don"t have reason to believe it> > no evidence _ it is possible but when I am looking @ issue of abuse >>>
ISSUES
DV
COMPELLING EVIDENCE OF DV or I would not be here
describe
most signivicant factor in adult abusive relationsjihp is growing up with abusive relationshijp . . . most significant factor is grow up with
very violent episodes - his father kicked his door down, thrown across room by his mom, no food, sleeping off a meth high for days dad was gone . . find piece of moldy bread to eat and he aate it . . he awakened
connection is when you are submitted and exposed to that kind of violence . . . combat ready . . hypervigilent survival mode the world as it affects me . . .look out for self . . direct link what yo are exposed to and how you handle it and especially if there is no intervention by people who handle it correctly
are you saying JA would lay there and possibly die will not fight back
I don't know what she was thinking . . said she didn't want to hurt him and knew she would have to hurt him
controlling mean physically abusive?
no . . . can have manipulate and psychological control
TA ex-girlfriends besisdes JA said TA was physically abusive to them?
no
May 10 2008 running joke between 2 of the
may 26 IM's and text - if JA was that upset with TA talking to her that way why not stop talking to him
I don't know
other than JA did you interview anyone else face to face
no I did not
aware JA's grandparents house broken into 2 days after they had the fight on the text messages
yes
different females TA talked to . . .wasn't it known fact he was looking for someone to marry . .
it was a known fact - the conversations would not lead you to believe trying to woo or court someone for marriage - they were very flirtatious and sexual from the beginning
you said one person had more power - is that because one gives it not the other commands it?
yes - you don't have to be abusive because someone gives you power . . . doesn't mean abusive
any women w/TA relationsnhip other than JA . . alleged TA psychological, emotional, physical. . . Lisa Andrews . . suck if she wanted to be a teacher but a good teacher . . there is another woman Nicole who said that . .
objection - overruled
who said TA . . no one would want to date her because she was like her boyfriend - like the man she ended up being with . . these are not long relationships
all interviews . . . anyone suspicious of abuse on TA or JA?
MM said ja confided in him . . verbal abuse by talking to JA but suspected phsyial abuse.
used to use term victim of DV but people have been using term survivor - it is more powerful word tham victim
could a survivor be a perpetrator
yes . . violent resistance . . .victim of dv lashes out . . term coined in calif. - dominant aggressor . . primary offender - person with most power in this relationship . .
nothing in JA journals saying she was jealous - law of attraction
it could but she listed some negative things came out in her journal . . . aoub Ta being cruel
could a female abuse, batter or terrorize a man to point of killing him
yes women can be perpetrators - percentage - continuum high end . . surveys . . . overwhelmingly in violent crimes
we keep hearing him and perpetrator
perp can be a she
how many times you meet with jody and what dates
first date oct 2011 . . there was a time in Aug when my daughter got married . . . not certain of all the dates - need my calendar
during testimony many things actually happened - photos of young boys . . . basing on just what JA told you -
yes on what JA told ALV and sex tape when he talks about corking the pod . . .
you claim not getting med attention for her finger - consistent with other battered women . . . what prevent them from seek attention but lie about the cause
many do lie about the cause . . . people go to dr and make report and lie . . .in this particular incident
claim TA name call turned into character assassination . . . if name call only between ta and ja would this not be just name calling if not in presence of others . . .
tearing apart if spending time together . .. you don't have another mirror . . .most does not happen in front of others
in complete couples assessment - confirm and validate your concerns - you only talked to one person - how base your decision is accurate?
collaborative information . . . . TA was asked what he liked and he said I don't like *advertiser censored*.
voicemail box was full - ta ordered her to empty it out . . . . there is an implied You empty it . .
TA was not able to leave voice mail for week -
sure he can be irrirated it is matter of what you do and how far you go when you are irrirted - pattern used to handle it . . it is so far over the top - that is alv - concern
relationship - abusive . . .why not look further into TA text that he feared JA . .
I actually read and continued to read texts occurring at that time - didn't see anything else led her to believe he was feeling afraid . . read other texts he had writing to other people and to JA . . .
stalkers do not . . .
10 min recess
no on the jaw _ important to me about the slap
did ja lie to you?
I don"t have reason to believe it> > no evidence _ it is possible but when I am looking @ issue of abuse >>>
ISSUES
DV
COMPELLING EVIDENCE OF DV or I would not be here
describe
most signivicant factor in adult abusive relationsjihp is growing up with abusive relationshijp . . . most significant factor is grow up with
very violent episodes - his father kicked his door down, thrown across room by his mom, no food, sleeping off a meth high for days dad was gone . . find piece of moldy bread to eat and he aate it . . he awakened
connection is when you are submitted and exposed to that kind of violence . . . combat ready . . hypervigilent survival mode the world as it affects me . . .look out for self . . direct link what yo are exposed to and how you handle it and especially if there is no intervention by people who handle it correctly
are you saying JA would lay there and possibly die will not fight back
I don't know what she was thinking . . said she didn't want to hurt him and knew she would have to hurt him
controlling mean physically abusive?
no . . . can have manipulate and psychological control
TA ex-girlfriends besisdes JA said TA was physically abusive to them?
no
May 10 2008 running joke between 2 of the
may 26 IM's and text - if JA was that upset with TA talking to her that way why not stop talking to him
I don't know
other than JA did you interview anyone else face to face
no I did not
aware JA's grandparents house broken into 2 days after they had the fight on the text messages
yes
different females TA talked to . . .wasn't it known fact he was looking for someone to marry . .
it was a known fact - the conversations would not lead you to believe trying to woo or court someone for marriage - they were very flirtatious and sexual from the beginning
you said one person had more power - is that because one gives it not the other commands it?
yes - you don't have to be abusive because someone gives you power . . . doesn't mean abusive
any women w/TA relationsnhip other than JA . . alleged TA psychological, emotional, physical. . . Lisa Andrews . . suck if she wanted to be a teacher but a good teacher . . there is another woman Nicole who said that . .
objection - overruled
who said TA . . no one would want to date her because she was like her boyfriend - like the man she ended up being with . . these are not long relationships
all interviews . . . anyone suspicious of abuse on TA or JA?
MM said ja confided in him . . verbal abuse by talking to JA but suspected phsyial abuse.
used to use term victim of DV but people have been using term survivor - it is more powerful word tham victim
could a survivor be a perpetrator
yes . . violent resistance . . .victim of dv lashes out . . term coined in calif. - dominant aggressor . . primary offender - person with most power in this relationship . .
nothing in JA journals saying she was jealous - law of attraction
it could but she listed some negative things came out in her journal . . . aoub Ta being cruel
could a female abuse, batter or terrorize a man to point of killing him
yes women can be perpetrators - percentage - continuum high end . . surveys . . . overwhelmingly in violent crimes
we keep hearing him and perpetrator
perp can be a she
how many times you meet with jody and what dates
first date oct 2011 . . there was a time in Aug when my daughter got married . . . not certain of all the dates - need my calendar
during testimony many things actually happened - photos of young boys . . . basing on just what JA told you -
yes on what JA told ALV and sex tape when he talks about corking the pod . . .
you claim not getting med attention for her finger - consistent with other battered women . . . what prevent them from seek attention but lie about the cause
many do lie about the cause . . . people go to dr and make report and lie . . .in this particular incident
claim TA name call turned into character assassination . . . if name call only between ta and ja would this not be just name calling if not in presence of others . . .
tearing apart if spending time together . .. you don't have another mirror . . .most does not happen in front of others
in complete couples assessment - confirm and validate your concerns - you only talked to one person - how base your decision is accurate?
collaborative information . . . . TA was asked what he liked and he said I don't like *advertiser censored*.
voicemail box was full - ta ordered her to empty it out . . . . there is an implied You empty it . .
TA was not able to leave voice mail for week -
sure he can be irrirated it is matter of what you do and how far you go when you are irrirted - pattern used to handle it . . it is so far over the top - that is alv - concern
relationship - abusive . . .why not look further into TA text that he feared JA . .
I actually read and continued to read texts occurring at that time - didn't see anything else led her to believe he was feeling afraid . . read other texts he had writing to other people and to JA . . .
stalkers do not . . .
10 min recess
wenwe4
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experience with dealing with abusive men . . . most men you work with be abusive?
I have lots friends who are male, co-facilitator X2, my son, . . . range of men - some of them are anger management . . some of them in my private practice - broad based practice work with many individuals
bias skews . . no don't thinks so - great Dad, son, brothers, people I have worked with in probation, criminal justice, training . . .lots male friends . .. probably would not be able to work with people who are violent including women if I didn't hve positive role models and mentors in my own life
did you read all of JA's journals and Ta's or only all provided to you?
what I was provided to me
negative things TA said to JA was because she was stalking him and he wanted distance from her - no
negative talk in TA jouranls?
no
negative talk about JA in journals
no
magazine subscriptions sent to JA in jail . . she wrote hidden messages in the - were they for you?
I didn't know that I haven't received any
high iq - outsmart
didn't appear in reading what either report wrote - if she did try she wasn't successful . . didn't appear to me she tried to outsmart me .
JA old friend said she was manipulative and played victim - even though high school traits stayed with her . . is it possible?
2 things - it was from elementary school - anything is possible - I don't have evidence
any physical abuse evidence other tha she says ta broke her finger
no
any reason to think JA has not manipulated you as she has others?
I am not aware she has manipulated anyone
object -approach
I have lots friends who are male, co-facilitator X2, my son, . . . range of men - some of them are anger management . . some of them in my private practice - broad based practice work with many individuals
bias skews . . no don't thinks so - great Dad, son, brothers, people I have worked with in probation, criminal justice, training . . .lots male friends . .. probably would not be able to work with people who are violent including women if I didn't hve positive role models and mentors in my own life
did you read all of JA's journals and Ta's or only all provided to you?
what I was provided to me
negative things TA said to JA was because she was stalking him and he wanted distance from her - no
negative talk in TA jouranls?
no
negative talk about JA in journals
no
magazine subscriptions sent to JA in jail . . she wrote hidden messages in the - were they for you?
I didn't know that I haven't received any
high iq - outsmart
didn't appear in reading what either report wrote - if she did try she wasn't successful . . didn't appear to me she tried to outsmart me .
JA old friend said she was manipulative and played victim - even though high school traits stayed with her . . is it possible?
2 things - it was from elementary school - anything is possible - I don't have evidence
any physical abuse evidence other tha she says ta broke her finger
no
any reason to think JA has not manipulated you as she has others?
I am not aware she has manipulated anyone
object -approach
wenwe4
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 9,499
- Reaction score
- 7,359
experience with dealing with abusive men . . . most men you work with be abusive?
I have lots friends who are male, co-facilitator X2, my son, . . . range of men - some of them are anger management . . some of them in my private practice - broad based practice work with many individuals
bias skews . . no don't thinks so - great Dad, son, brothers, people I have worked with in probation, criminal justice, training . . .lots male friends . .. probably would not be able to work with people who are violent including women if I didn't hve positive role models and mentors in my own life
did you read all of JA's journals and Ta's or only all provided to you?
what I was provided to me
negative things TA said to JA was because she was stalking him and he wanted distance from her - no
negative talk in TA jouranls?
no
negative talk about JA in journals
no
magazine subscriptions sent to JA in jail . . she wrote hidden messages in the - were they for you?
I didn't know that I haven't received any
high iq - outsmart
didn't appear in reading what either report wrote - if she did try she wasn't successful . . didn't appear to me she tried to outsmart me .
JA old friend said she was manipulative and played victim - even though high school traits stayed with her . . is it possible?
2 things - it was from elementary school - anything is possible - I don't have evidence
any physical abuse evidence other tha she says ta broke her finger
no
any reason to think JA has not manipulated you as she has others?
I am not aware she has manipulated anyone
object -approach
I have lots friends who are male, co-facilitator X2, my son, . . . range of men - some of them are anger management . . some of them in my private practice - broad based practice work with many individuals
bias skews . . no don't thinks so - great Dad, son, brothers, people I have worked with in probation, criminal justice, training . . .lots male friends . .. probably would not be able to work with people who are violent including women if I didn't hve positive role models and mentors in my own life
did you read all of JA's journals and Ta's or only all provided to you?
what I was provided to me
negative things TA said to JA was because she was stalking him and he wanted distance from her - no
negative talk in TA jouranls?
no
negative talk about JA in journals
no
magazine subscriptions sent to JA in jail . . she wrote hidden messages in the - were they for you?
I didn't know that I haven't received any
high iq - outsmart
didn't appear in reading what either report wrote - if she did try she wasn't successful . . didn't appear to me she tried to outsmart me .
JA old friend said she was manipulative and played victim - even though high school traits stayed with her . . is it possible?
2 things - it was from elementary school - anything is possible - I don't have evidence
any physical abuse evidence other tha she says ta broke her finger
no
any reason to think JA has not manipulated you as she has others?
I am not aware she has manipulated anyone
object -approach
wenwe4
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 9,499
- Reaction score
- 7,359
any reason JA hasn't manipulated you like she manipulated others
I didn't use JA as the only evidence - I don't believe she manipulated me - what she said was corroborated by others . . not sure who she manipulated I have no information on that
give JA a small warm smile?
done that on occasion - just to acknowledge her . . no other reason - I have maybe given warm . . have friends of mine from elementary school . . .doesn't mean I have looked @ Ms. arias - I have looked @ my friends in front row . . I have avoided looking @ her
personal feeling s for JA or feel sorry for her?
I have liked JA and having a corporative relationship . . other than the 44 hrs - we don't have a friendship or relationship . . .I have had similar relationships with others as well . . I am pretty clear on my boundaries . . if something effected my . . I would step away from it
@ purple plum . . .when prosecutor was entering exhibit you looked @ JA gave a half smile and shrugged your shoulders? . . why
I didn't know I was doing that
believe her?
believe those things because of corroborative data . . I don't have data wasn't there during any physical incidents - because much of what was said was corroborated by other sources - I belive them and they paint a picture
if you found out JA had exaggerated the physical abuse do you think you should revise your assessment in the degree and severity
I would certainly re-look @ things - that would be important but I am really looking @ rage and what happens with TA in this relationship . . .. other things that are very much less intimiate with other women. . .degree of abuse in his childhood . . he writes I don't like *advertiser censored* . . .not just what JA says - looking @ what ta says . . .his own behavior - I don't think someone has to be perfect to be a battered woman . . we dont' have to like everyone . . not mean they were not victims of abuse . . not personal feelings but do I believe this was what was happened
voice, tone, intonation, verbal discussion - often facial and body signals can been seen. . .clarifying questions and statements can be made . . which do you give more weight written or verbal?
I had more written . . . gave written more . .
verbal interaction with JA was behind a screen and sometimes couldn't even see JA . . .very uncomfy to spend that many hours with someone - because I had more written information I relied on it../
no interview with TA . . . not fair to determine their relationship
wish I could interview him .. got that from his friends, his interaction with JA and others I feel I got an idea of TA
text, im's emails you viewed
I am aware there were phone ccalls . . . not sure if they were recorded . . I know phone sex was recorded . . .
did you ask JA if phone calls were part of those exhanges
yes I think there were follow up phone calls made . . .don't have dates
of the 18 cases forensic how many were males victim and not perp?
give us numbers . . .
at least 2 but I am not sure . . one where the father killed his son in law and father who did killing was also victim
couples therapy . . family of origin in assessing TA why not assess JA family of origin for possible abuse . . her level was much lower than tA often we see women and sometimes men do same sex role play . . .
I thought JA had fairly dysfunctional family but tTA's was far more violent and far reaching ways of abuse.
end of day - please be back tomorrow morning start @ 9:30
I didn't use JA as the only evidence - I don't believe she manipulated me - what she said was corroborated by others . . not sure who she manipulated I have no information on that
give JA a small warm smile?
done that on occasion - just to acknowledge her . . no other reason - I have maybe given warm . . have friends of mine from elementary school . . .doesn't mean I have looked @ Ms. arias - I have looked @ my friends in front row . . I have avoided looking @ her
personal feeling s for JA or feel sorry for her?
I have liked JA and having a corporative relationship . . other than the 44 hrs - we don't have a friendship or relationship . . .I have had similar relationships with others as well . . I am pretty clear on my boundaries . . if something effected my . . I would step away from it
@ purple plum . . .when prosecutor was entering exhibit you looked @ JA gave a half smile and shrugged your shoulders? . . why
I didn't know I was doing that
believe her?
believe those things because of corroborative data . . I don't have data wasn't there during any physical incidents - because much of what was said was corroborated by other sources - I belive them and they paint a picture
if you found out JA had exaggerated the physical abuse do you think you should revise your assessment in the degree and severity
I would certainly re-look @ things - that would be important but I am really looking @ rage and what happens with TA in this relationship . . .. other things that are very much less intimiate with other women. . .degree of abuse in his childhood . . he writes I don't like *advertiser censored* . . .not just what JA says - looking @ what ta says . . .his own behavior - I don't think someone has to be perfect to be a battered woman . . we dont' have to like everyone . . not mean they were not victims of abuse . . not personal feelings but do I believe this was what was happened
voice, tone, intonation, verbal discussion - often facial and body signals can been seen. . .clarifying questions and statements can be made . . which do you give more weight written or verbal?
I had more written . . . gave written more . .
verbal interaction with JA was behind a screen and sometimes couldn't even see JA . . .very uncomfy to spend that many hours with someone - because I had more written information I relied on it../
no interview with TA . . . not fair to determine their relationship
wish I could interview him .. got that from his friends, his interaction with JA and others I feel I got an idea of TA
text, im's emails you viewed
I am aware there were phone ccalls . . . not sure if they were recorded . . I know phone sex was recorded . . .
did you ask JA if phone calls were part of those exhanges
yes I think there were follow up phone calls made . . .don't have dates
of the 18 cases forensic how many were males victim and not perp?
give us numbers . . .
at least 2 but I am not sure . . one where the father killed his son in law and father who did killing was also victim
couples therapy . . family of origin in assessing TA why not assess JA family of origin for possible abuse . . her level was much lower than tA often we see women and sometimes men do same sex role play . . .
I thought JA had fairly dysfunctional family but tTA's was far more violent and far reaching ways of abuse.
end of day - please be back tomorrow morning start @ 9:30
wenwe4
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 9,499
- Reaction score
- 7,359
any reason JA hasn't manipulated you like she manipulated others
I didn't use JA as the only evidence - I don't believe she manipulated me - what she said was corroborated by others . . not sure who she manipulated I have no information on that
give JA a small warm smile?
done that on occasion - just to acknowledge her . . no other reason - I have maybe given warm . . have friends of mine from elementary school . . .doesn't mean I have looked @ Ms. arias - I have looked @ my friends in front row . . I have avoided looking @ her
personal feeling s for JA or feel sorry for her?
I have liked JA and having a corporative relationship . . other than the 44 hrs - we don't have a friendship or relationship . . .I have had similar relationships with others as well . . I am pretty clear on my boundaries . . if something effected my . . I would step away from it
@ purple plum . . .when prosecutor was entering exhibit you looked @ JA gave a half smile and shrugged your shoulders? . . why
I didn't know I was doing that
believe her?
believe those things because of corroborative data . . I don't have data wasn't there during any physical incidents - because much of what was said was corroborated by other sources - I belive them and they paint a picture
if you found out JA had exaggerated the physical abuse do you think you should revise your assessment in the degree and severity
I would certainly re-look @ things - that would be important but I am really looking @ rage and what happens with TA in this relationship . . .. other things that are very much less intimiate with other women. . .degree of abuse in his childhood . . he writes I don't like *advertiser censored* . . .not just what JA says - looking @ what ta says . . .his own behavior - I don't think someone has to be perfect to be a battered woman . . we dont' have to like everyone . . not mean they were not victims of abuse . . not personal feelings but do I believe this was what was happened
voice, tone, intonation, verbal discussion - often facial and body signals can been seen. . .clarifying questions and statements can be made . . which do you give more weight written or verbal?
I had more written . . . gave written more . .
verbal interaction with JA was behind a screen and sometimes couldn't even see JA . . .very uncomfy to spend that many hours with someone - because I had more written information I relied on it../
no interview with TA . . . not fair to determine their relationship
wish I could interview him .. got that from his friends, his interaction with JA and others I feel I got an idea of TA
text, im's emails you viewed
I am aware there were phone ccalls . . . not sure if they were recorded . . I know phone sex was recorded . . .
did you ask JA if phone calls were part of those exhanges
yes I think there were follow up phone calls made . . .don't have dates
of the 18 cases forensic how many were males victim and not perp?
give us numbers . . .
at least 2 but I am not sure . . one where the father killed his son in law and father who did killing was also victim
couples therapy . . family of origin in assessing TA why not assess JA family of origin for possible abuse . . her level was much lower than tA often we see women and sometimes men do same sex role play . . .
I thought JA had fairly dysfunctional family but tTA's was far more violent and far reaching ways of abuse.
end of day - please be back tomorrow morning start @ 9:30
I didn't use JA as the only evidence - I don't believe she manipulated me - what she said was corroborated by others . . not sure who she manipulated I have no information on that
give JA a small warm smile?
done that on occasion - just to acknowledge her . . no other reason - I have maybe given warm . . have friends of mine from elementary school . . .doesn't mean I have looked @ Ms. arias - I have looked @ my friends in front row . . I have avoided looking @ her
personal feeling s for JA or feel sorry for her?
I have liked JA and having a corporative relationship . . other than the 44 hrs - we don't have a friendship or relationship . . .I have had similar relationships with others as well . . I am pretty clear on my boundaries . . if something effected my . . I would step away from it
@ purple plum . . .when prosecutor was entering exhibit you looked @ JA gave a half smile and shrugged your shoulders? . . why
I didn't know I was doing that
believe her?
believe those things because of corroborative data . . I don't have data wasn't there during any physical incidents - because much of what was said was corroborated by other sources - I belive them and they paint a picture
if you found out JA had exaggerated the physical abuse do you think you should revise your assessment in the degree and severity
I would certainly re-look @ things - that would be important but I am really looking @ rage and what happens with TA in this relationship . . .. other things that are very much less intimiate with other women. . .degree of abuse in his childhood . . he writes I don't like *advertiser censored* . . .not just what JA says - looking @ what ta says . . .his own behavior - I don't think someone has to be perfect to be a battered woman . . we dont' have to like everyone . . not mean they were not victims of abuse . . not personal feelings but do I believe this was what was happened
voice, tone, intonation, verbal discussion - often facial and body signals can been seen. . .clarifying questions and statements can be made . . which do you give more weight written or verbal?
I had more written . . . gave written more . .
verbal interaction with JA was behind a screen and sometimes couldn't even see JA . . .very uncomfy to spend that many hours with someone - because I had more written information I relied on it../
no interview with TA . . . not fair to determine their relationship
wish I could interview him .. got that from his friends, his interaction with JA and others I feel I got an idea of TA
text, im's emails you viewed
I am aware there were phone ccalls . . . not sure if they were recorded . . I know phone sex was recorded . . .
did you ask JA if phone calls were part of those exhanges
yes I think there were follow up phone calls made . . .don't have dates
of the 18 cases forensic how many were males victim and not perp?
give us numbers . . .
at least 2 but I am not sure . . one where the father killed his son in law and father who did killing was also victim
couples therapy . . family of origin in assessing TA why not assess JA family of origin for possible abuse . . her level was much lower than tA often we see women and sometimes men do same sex role play . . .
I thought JA had fairly dysfunctional family but tTA's was far more violent and far reaching ways of abuse.
end of day - please be back tomorrow morning start @ 9:30