Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

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Kitkat28 said:
How are these criminal gangs finding out about people having large amounts of money for building projects? Maybe the police should investigate bank staff and find out if someone is tipping the robbers off to large cash withdrawals.

MOO
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They definitely should. And cleaning, garden services or whatever kind of other employees they could have had with whom one of them could have been friendly enough to chat about their plans.
 
Dotta said:
You know - Im thinking about this "Silver Colt". Was it a fake one? Can you recognize a type of gun in seconds or with impaired vision? Well, if you are an expert, maybe yes.
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In regards to the question, I think the answer is an exacting and definitive "fuzzy maybe".

For example, model 1911 Colt .45s are large and by pistol standards, have distinctive looks. They have also seen a certain amount of movie and book time for both historical reasons and because they are powerful and recognizable.

"Colt .45s" thus make an ideal movie fire arm for both bad guys and good guys. Going into the video era, they might be featured in "shoot'em up" video games for the same reasons.

Then factor in the background of the witness. Is the witness somebody with a passing interest in fire arms? Is he a fire arms enthusiast? An action movie buff or a video gamer?

Any one of these possibilities could increase the possibility of somebody recognizing the historical pistol at a glance. But.... the weapon's movie fame could contribute to it being described in a "Bad guys always have bad a-- guns. So, yes, these sociopathic bad guys had a silver Colt .45" context.

Moving from movies and video games, I dont know how many of these pistols are in circulation in Greece. Even in America, though specialty manufacturers continue to produce them, there are just not that many being made anymore.
 
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heartyhound said:
Husband of British mother killed in burglary 'will come face to face with suspect' | Daily Mail Online
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"'Two members of the gang tied me up with string. They bound my wrists and feet and pulled me into a foetal position.

'They wrapped insulating tape around my neck very tightly. And around my mouth, leaving my nose exposed. They also covered my eyes. But there was a small crack through which I could see.

'I could hear them shouting and threatening Caroline, saying; 'We will kill your child if you do not tell us where the money is.' I could not see what was happening because I was facing the other way.'

Babis told how he fell unconscious for up 30 minutes because the tape around his neck was so tight.

However through the hole in his blind-fold he managed to identify the robbers as two six-foot-tall slim, athletic men, and a short, fat man, who appeared be the leader."



Why would they leave his nose exposed if they wanted to kill him? Also, why would they think he was dead if he could breathe thru his nose? So many questions.
 
Cryptic said:
In regards to the question, I think the answer is an exacting and definitive "fuzzy maybe".

For example, model 1911 Colt .45s are large and by pistol standards, have distinctive looks. They have also seen a certain amount of movie and book time for both historical reasons and because they are powerful and recognizable.

"Colt .45s" thus make an ideal movie fire arm for both bad guys and good guys. Going into the video era, they might be featured in "shoot'em up" video games for the same reasons.

Then factor in the background of the witness. Is the witness somebody with a passing interest in fire arms? Is he a fire arms enthusiast? An action movie buff or a video gamer?

Any one of these possibilities could increase the possibility of somebody recognizing the historical pistol at a glance. But.... the weapon's movie fame could contribute to it being described in a "Bad guys always have bad a-- guns. So, yes, these sociopathic bad guys had a silver Colt .45" context.

Moving from movies and video games, I dont know how many of these pistols are in circulation in Greece. Even in America, though specialty manufacturers continue to produce them, there are just not that many being made anymore.
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In this case, however, it appears to be a silver Colt revolver. I haven't seen any media reports mentioning a model 1911.

Here's from the Daily Mail:

"One carried a silver-coloured revolver, the other a black pistol."

Detectives probing if robbers who killed British mother in Greece believed €100,000 was in the home | Daily Mail Online

and again from the Daily Mail:

"He said the burglars were armed with a silver Colt and a black pistol."

Police investigating savage murder of British woman in Greece arrest a Georgian man near Bulgaria | Daily Mail Online
 
@jenn83 have you read through the rest of the thread for other people’s thoughts on the tape? ;)

Cryptic said:
For example, model 1911 Colt .45s are large and by pistol standards, have distinctive looks. They have also seen a certain amount of movie and book time for both historical reasons and because they are powerful and recognizable
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That, to me anyway, sounds like you know something about guns. Maybe a little bit, maybe lots. I know absolutely nothing about guns, so if I had to describe one I wouldn’t even know if it was “big” or “small” if you see what I mean.

If I witnessed a gun crime, the best I think I could do would be to differentiate between a pistol type and a shotgun or semi-automatic type; that is something small that would typically fit in a pocket or holster, and something with a longer barrel that you would use for say hunting or like the armed forces use.

This
Patrick Jane said:
and again from the Daily Mail:

"He said the burglars were armed with a silver Colt and a black pistol."
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would imply a knowledge of the actual guns to me, but like I said maybe that’s just because I know nothing at all about them.
 
Kitkat28 said:
This would imply a knowledge of the actual guns to me, but like I said maybe that’s just because I know nothing at all about them.
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Not in my opinion.

From the Daily Mail:

"Police said the weapons were unusual to find in Greece and believe tracing them could prove vital in identifying Miss Crouch’s killers"

In my opinion a silver colored revolver would be rare in Greece, and thus would stick out like a sore thumb.

Firearms are heavily regulated in Greece and civilians are generally prohibited from ownership, much like in the UK.

However, military conscription is mandatory for males in Greece, so it's likely that the husband has at least a basic understanding of firearms from his military service.
 
Georgian man was definitely involved in previous robbery/robberies as police have his DNA - well, that's what I understood reading various - constantly changing :) - reports in press. Sb led police to him (reward), I bet police knew exactly where to wait for him. But was he involved in this crime? I read C had defence wounds on her arms and DNA was obtained from under her fingernails. Will it match the Georgian man? Maybe there was another gang - copycats? Time and DNA will tell.
 
Patrick Jane said:
In this case, however, it appears to be a silver Colt revolver. I haven't seen any media reports mentioning a model 1911.
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I agree with your emphasis and the seemingly unusual statement.

I think it would be rare, perhaps even very rare, for somebody to be able to glance at a revolver and recognize it as being a "Colt'. Revolvers look pretty much the same from manufacturer to manufacturer (at least to me).

Maybe he used the term 'Colt' in the generic sense to mean any revolver ?
Kitkat28 said:
@jenn83
That, to me anyway, sounds like you know something about guns. Maybe a little bit, maybe lots. I know absolutely nothing about guns, so if I had to describe one I wouldn’t even know if it was “big” or “small” if you see what I mean.
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Yes, I understand.

For reference, from watching movies and from having a mild interest in guns, I could probably differentiate the famous ones: Colt .45s. Glocks, .357 Magnum type revolver, Walther PPKs (James Bond fame), Beretta 92 (was issued one in the Reserves) and maybe one or two more.

Other than that, it would be: "Modern looking semi automatic", "Looked like older military surplus" for me as well.

In the end, I can accept that a male could differentiate a Colt .45 by simply having a mild interest in guns, having seen movies etc. But.... he seems to have differentiated a revolver as being 'Colt' specifically. This seems far more difficult.
 
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my summary and translation:

The Georgian suspect denies any involvement. Forensics results are not yet in. The Georgian is being interrogated by both the homicide and robbery units of the police. There are many similarities in the modus operandi between this case and a prior case in the same region in March*.

*I've seen other Greek media reports that the police have DNA for this suspect in regards to the prior case, but he denies any involvement in that case, even though the police have the DNA evidence. Thus police are skeptical of his denials in this case and suspect he may be involved in this case, and even if he's not involved directly, that at a minimum he may know persons involved in this case.
 
I wonder when the suspects wrapped the husband’s face in tape. I guess this was after he told them where the money was hidden?

Then the suspects believed that there was more money somewhere.

So they wrap the husband’s face, making him unable to potentially tell them where more money is.
 
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