Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[gitana1]

She doesn't look like Maddy McCann at all. Her eyes are light blue. While Maddie had very unusual eyes (certainly not light blue).

The age is wrong, face shape is totally different, hair color, eyes, nothing similar. I haven't seen a picture of one missing kid posted so far that could be her. To me, it would be pretty easy to recognize her or any other missing/located child, when presented with a true match.

I just read that article and the story about the father (well, and all the different stories!) seems like an unfortunate parallel to the staged bedroom pictures. I'm wondering if anyone in their community will tell the truth about Maria and her origins. On the other hand, maybe some are just retelling the story they have been told.

This all worries me because before it was said that 10 out their other 14 children are undetermined as to who they belong to and now another 10 (at least that is how I am reading it)?


I guess the bright side is that maybe 20 or more children have been rescued and their origins will eventually be known.

The only thing you are likely to hear about the other kids registered to he couple is that they weren't all their children. They likely either don't ER. Have them in car anymore or will release them soon. Those kids are Gypsy kids. I know it makes for a intense, sensational story that hordes of swarthy Gyspy bands are running around stealing white babies from cradles, but it just isn't true. It's a myth that they kidnap kids, one that this horrible couple just did more to perpetuate than anyone.

Again, if Maria was abducted, this is the only documentable case I have found and I've researched thoroughly, back through records spanning hundreds of years.

Yes, some bad groups traffick thousands of kids- Gypsy kids. But the ones who allow their kids to be trafficked are no different than people who send their kids of to be enslaved in India or Thailand or in the past, who sent their kids off to work in factories or mines, 10 hours per day. It is horrible, but to these people with their incredibly short lifespans and little ability to assimilate, kids become working age at 8 or 9 and they feel they need what these kids get, in order to survive.

It's wrong, ignorant, backwards and tragic. It is child exploitation. But it occurs among themselves and ultimately, the authorities will wring their hands, complain, but do little to help the other kids or any trafficked Gypsy kids. None of those kids will be "rescued", because they are not white, blonde, European kids.

The couple

Hilarious. And they thought they could pass this kid off as one of theirs! Yeah, right.

What creeps me out about this picture - why was it taken? It's not like they appear to be a happy family taking a keepsake photo. Are they advertising Maria?

This picture was taken after the arrest. The kid looks exactly like she did in the post-raid photos. Same hair and clothes.

Maria is lucky. When older, they would sell her to the highest bidder. They sell female children to husbands also. My hairdresses had last year a trainee, very beautiful Roma girl. After a few months she told me that her family sold her for 30k to the husband in Italy, so he is her master now... So sad...

Well, it's a bit different than how you have characterized. Marriages are arranged in some bands. And dowries are paid. Just like in India, where Gyspies come from. The tradition persists in some groups.

What determines who marries who is not just the person with the largest dowry. It is more complex. It has to do with intricate familial histories, mostly. And if two kids like each other, they may be married off to each other if possible. Also, little girls aren't married to old men. There is usually no more than a five year difference and sometimes the boy is younger.

Finally, anyone who has seen a Gypsy woman in action knows she has no master. The culture has serious matrilineal aspects and women oftèn have The power because they can earn more.

I am 100% against child brides, period. But it is not exactly as you have stated.

 

[MissMarple]

http://greece.greekreporter.com/201...-abducting-little-blond-girl-found-in-greece/
bbm.
"According to sources, the 39-year-old Salis stated in his apology, that when the Bulgarian Roma, and the biological mother of the little girl came to meet his family, he was away, when he came back two weeks later he found the child at the house.

In addition, he argued that he didn’t want to keep the child due to his criminal record, but his partner retorted that she already loved the girl so the child remained in the family.

The 39-year-old also asked to be released in order to meet the Bulgarian couple who, according to what he said, live in Greece. He even asked for the telephone restriction to be lifted for him and his partner, in order to identify the real parents of the child.

The pair from Farsala have different lawyers and two witnesses that say that the real parents of the child are Roma’s from Bulgaria, who live in Greece.

Today, a magistrate ordered both Christos Salis and Eleftheria Dimopoulou to be remanded in custody pending trial on charges of abducting a minor and forgery."

No way Roma are fair skin and blonde, especially of the greek, albanian, montenegrin, serbian, bulgarian, romanian and hungarian origin...

 

[vlpate]

With full respect to your culture and origine, as someone who lives with Roma population in vicinity, i would say that your family is part of assimilated and more advanced Roma population. Here in Montenegro, Roma are known as criminals, thieves, children are their tools to get money without work, they drug new born babies to be calm on the street while mother is begging, they are agressive. Same is in Serbia, Romania and Hungary especially, in some parts of town police can not even enter. I live near them, they are population in my town so i know that they are ready to do only criminal things.

Interesting BBC documentary re Romanian Gyspy children. A blonde child would stand out like a sore thumb in the midst of these children....attract more attention during "expeditions" into stores, etc.

 

[dotr]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/5191514.stm
bbm
"I was told I'd earn up to 45 euros a day if I took the job in Greece. What do you think I should have done? I decided to leave my children with my neighbour and go and earn some money. But I was lied to. "

Newsnight decided to try to track down Slavka and put these allegations to her. We had heard she came from the Roma community in a nearby town called Kameno.

Initially everyone we approached there denied knowing her. But eventually one man gave us an address telling us to look out for a house that stood out from the rest. In the midst of a grimy, non-descript street the large, brash building was unmistakable.


Slavka denies she is involved in trafficking
We found there an ordinary looking middle-aged woman surrounded by her daughters, who answered by the name of Slavka. Reluctantly she spoke to us at the front gate.

She vehemently denied the allegations that she was the recruiter for a baby-trafficking gang saying she'd never heard of Yanna."

 

[gitana1]

No offense, but I believe a link to journal articles would be appropriate if you are claiming this expertise. It's not that I don't believe you, but anyone else would be asked for a link. I don't think anyone or most here have said much about gypsies engaging in prostitution anyway so not sure why it is a point.

Well, you were attempting to refute my statement that Gypsy women do not prostitute themselves. So yeah, we have been discussing it in several posts.

As to linking to my journal articles, I debated it, but that would reveal my name which would then make me easily locateable, including my work address. I don't like giving that info out in a non-professional Internet setting.

However, I am a verified insider for other reasons and the admins know who I am. So I would be happy to provide proof to them that I have been published three times (two articles, three publications), regarding Roma.

 

[MissMarple]

Interesting BBC documentary re Romanian Gyspy children. A blonde child would stand out like a sore thumb in the midst of these children....attract more attention during "expeditions" into stores, etc.

In almost 99% of cases, a blonde poor child will have more simpathy than poor Roma child. As i sai for Maria, she was so lucky to be saved. Definitely she had a purpose and benefit gor them.

 

[MissMarple]

Well, you were attempting to refute my statement that Gypsy women do not prostitute themselves. So yeah, we have been discussing it in several posts.

As to linking to my journal articles, I debated it, but that would reveal my name which would then make me easily locateable, including my work address. I don't like giving that info out in a non-professional Internet setting.

However, I am a verified insider for other reasons and the admins know who I am. So I would be happy to provide proof to them that I have been published three times (two articles, three publications), regarding Roma.

My aunt was national coordinator for Roma inclusions for several countries in Eastern Europe so I know a lot. As I said , you are most definite from the very advanced Roma .

 

[gitana1]

No way Roma are fair skin and blonde, especially of the greek, albanian, montenegrin, serbian, bulgarian, romanian and hungarian origin...

There are some. I have a cousin whose 100% Gypsy boy is fair and blonde. However, I have never seen a combination of featured like hers among any Gypsies. My cousin's kid has brown eyes and is not as fair. I've never seen a kud with white eyelashes or eyebrows. Lots of green eyed or blue eyes Gupsies ànd some with blonde hair and light eyes, but thèy tend to tan (like one of my cousins).

The combo of fair skin, light eyes and white blonde hair is unheard of.

 

[time]

Interesting BBC documentary re Romanian Gyspy children. A blonde child would stand out like a sore thumb in the midst of these children....attract more attention during "expeditions" into stores, etc.

Very informative. The story with the girl at about 47:00 begging is heartbreaking. She is groomed with both some affection and with being hit if she doesn't come back with money. Working 10 hours and even in bars.

 

[Curious Me]

There's a picture of the couple.

Roma couple say mother gave up mystery girl to them in Greece
http://news.yahoo.com/roma-couple-mother-gave-mystery-girl-them-greece-140955277.html

 

[TopTop]

I used to go to Bulgaria very often. One thing you can say that they are not fairy skin or blonde, more like the Greeks. She looks like a Russian girl.

My parents are both Greek. My mother's colouring is exactly like this little girls. She was extremely blond and has blue eyes. Yes, it's not the norm but in theory, she could be of any ethnic background, even Greek (although I do not think so).

 

[MissMarple]

There are some. I have a cousin whose 100% Gypsy boy is fair and blonde. However, I have never seen a combination of featured like hers among any Gypsies. My cousin's kid has brown eyes and is not as fair. I've never seen a kud with white eyelashes or eyebrows. Lots of green eyed or blue eyes Gupsies ànd some with blonde hair and light eyes, but thèy tend to tan (like one of my cousins).

The combo of fair skin, light eyes and white blonde hair is unheard of.

Agree. I was blonder than her but since sic hair is almost black as well as eyelashes and eyebrows...

 

[MissMarple]

Very informative. The story with the girl at about 47:00 begging is heartbreaking. She is groomed with both some affection and with being hit if she doesn't come back with money. Working 10 hours and even in bars.

They are beggers for organized crime and have a daily limit to bring to them or they will be beaten.

 

[time]

Well, you were attempting to refute my statement that Gypsy women do not prostitute themselves. So yeah, we have been discussing it in several posts.

As to linking to my journal articles, I debated it, but that would reveal my name which would then make me easily locateable, including my work address. I don't like giving that info out in a non-professional Internet setting.

However, I am a verified insider for other reasons and the admins know who I am. So I would be happy to provide proof to them that I have been published three times (two articles, three publications), regarding Roma.

I understand. I think they could have just been linked without comment that you were the author or linking related studies so we have an opportunity to see the date published, the type of journal, other publications where they are cited as well as differing opinions and so forth. It's not proving you are the author and I am certainly not contesting you are a verified attorney (I think you mistakenly said insider), it's about other posters being able to read and evaluate the information for themselves.

I think the main point here is the exploitation of children and how many and how extensive is it. Exploiting their own children as well as the many criminal charges against them that do not have to do with Maria is as important as finding this child in my opinion. I know that there may, in fact, not be all the children they were claiming. It would be great if more missing children are found and there is still a possibility of that.

 

[gitana1]

My aunt was national coordinator for Roma inclusions for several countries in Eastern Europe so I know a lot. As I said , you are most definite from the very advanced Roma .

I understand. But again, I am not basing my opinions solely on my personal, familial experiences, but also on years of research. But hon, you can ignore my Posts. I'm seriously not offended if you don't agree with my perspective. I understand. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. All I can do is offer the info I know. And mine suggests that you can't broad brush any group as totally bad or totally good or highlight the sins of the visible few as the practices of the many, and that There has never been one, documentable case of an actual non-Gypsy kid kidnapping by Roma, that I have found in years of research, so if this is one, it is unique, that Roma do not sell themselves for sex or trade children for sex, that yes, child trafficking is a major problem among some bands, but that the trafficking occurs with Gypsy kids and that the authorities won't do much to stop it.

It's okay if you reject the information I have given. Some will, some might find it interesting or pertinent to the discussion. So hopefully it will be okay if I keep posting what I know.

 

[vlpate]

This picture was taken after the arrest. The kid looks exactly like she did in the post-raid photos. Same hair and clothes.

Thanks, I wasn't aware. I tend to think they're telling the truth about the girl being left with them. Seems it is common for them to take care of children who have been abused/neglected/left behind. I've only heard of one kidnapping in the states by gypsies and IIRC, the child was a relative they snatched from a foster family.

Interesting info gitana, thanks.

 

[~n/t~]

Is there still the assumption that her dad is Canadian? If so how do they know?

 

[SweetT]

It looks like the color on the little girls hands is from the ink that they use to Finger print people. Hope they find her bio parents, but I fear that the parents/parent may have given her up to these folks at some point in time and that she wasn't kidnapped. JMO

 

[vlpate]

In almost 99% of cases, a blonde poor child will have more simpathy than poor Roma child. As i sai for Maria, she was so lucky to be saved. Definitely she had a purpose and benefit gor them.

I've read stories of the gypsies maiming children to garner sympathy, IOW, more earning potential. I wonder how true this is.

 

[hollye]

It looks like the color on the little girls hands is from the ink that they use to Finger print people. Hope they find her bio parents, but I fear that the parents/parent may have given her up to these folks at some point in time and that she wasn't kidnapped. JMO

Do they still use ink to fingerprint people? The last several times that I have gotten fingerprinted, it has been done with a scanner, though admittedly, it has all been in the US.

I was thinking it looks similar to the dye in her hair, which may have been dip dyed more recently.