Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #2

[Elley Mae]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/26/world/bulgaria-nikolaevo-roma/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"My mum was pregnant at that time and gave birth, but she did not have the money to bring her baby home. She did not sell Maria but left her there and came back to Bulgaria to try and arrange the documents," she said.

Investigators on both sides of the border, however, doubt that version of events. Christos Salis and Eleftheria Dimopoulo, the Greek Roma couple who raised Maria from a few months old, are still in custody charged with kidnapping.

And on Friday afternoon, Bulgarian police said they had launched a criminal investigation on suspicion the Rusevs had sold Maria for illegal adoption.

Bulgaria's Child Protection Services went to Nikolaevo on Friday to carry out what they said was an assessment of Saska Ruseva's "suitability as a parent" and the family's living conditions.

By nightfall, the same state officials were back with police to take Angel and Minka into protective care.

 

[pukasonqo2]

Some Spanish Gypsies:

I'm not seeing 50% European blood.

(BTW, one of them pictured is an uncle of mine!)

off topic but i had to ask:
which one gitana? :seeya:and where is camaron de la isla?

 

[Elley Mae]

'Maria' Case Leads Greek Police to Child Trafficking Ring

http://www.novinite.com/articles/154953/'Maria'+Case+Leads+Greek+Police+to+Child+Trafficking+Ring

Over 100 Bulgarian children have been adopted from the hospital in Greece, where Bulgarian Roma girl Maria was born.

The family is very poor and all live in one room. TV footage showed Maria's siblings walking around the filthy home and neighborhood half naked. They seldom have anything to eat, but flour gruel.

bTV also reported that the "blond" gene of the five children was inherited from the mother Sasha who has albinos in her kin.

Greek psychologists established that Maria has been abused. They say she is very aggressive and describe her reactions as those of "a beast."

It was reported meanwhile that the child will be brought to her native country and placed in a crisis center of the family type and later in a foster home.

bbm

 

[Cappuccino]

I love the way she was a little blonde angel when people thought she'd been kidnapped. Now we know she's a Roma child and suddenly she's an aggressive beast. Lovely.

 

[Inana]

How many gypsies did Hitler murder?
I know it was a lot!

Godwin's Law:
The longer an argument drags one, the more likely someone will throw out the Hitler or Nazi analogy.


lol!

 

[modesty blaise]

she's acting like a beast?? what horrible slander of an innocent child.
before reports stated she was doing quite well, I guess those offers for adoption dried up.
the unwanted explanation of how she came by her blonde hair is rather creepy,is this btv the equivalent of tmz live??

 

[Elley Mae]

she's acting like a beast?? what horrible slander of an innocent child.
before reports stated she was doing quite well, I guess those offers for adoption dried up.
the unwanted explanation of how she came by her blonde hair is rather creepy,is this btv the equivalent of tmz live??

Central European Media Enterprises - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The company is listed on NASDAQ and Prague Stock Exchange under the ticker symbol CETV.

bTV (Bulgaria) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

bTV The News are the most watched newscast in Bulgaria.

It doesn't appear to be a tabloid, I could be wrong.

 

[Linda7NJ]

'Maria' Case Leads Greek Police to Child Trafficking Ring

http://www.novinite.com/articles/154953/'Maria'+Case+Leads+Greek+Police+to+Child+Trafficking+Ring

Over 100 Bulgarian children have been adopted from the hospital in Greece, where Bulgarian Roma girl Maria was born.

The family is very poor and all live in one room. TV footage showed Maria's siblings walking around the filthy home and neighborhood half naked. They seldom have anything to eat, but flour gruel.

bTV also reported that the "blond" gene of the five children was inherited from the mother Sasha who has albinos in her kin.

Greek psychologists established that Maria has been abused. They say she is very aggressive and describe her reactions as those of "a beast."

It was reported meanwhile that the child will be brought to her native country and placed in a crisis center of the family type and later in a foster home.

bbm

Ah, that that sweet adorable pleading face is "animal like" in her behaviors.

She IMO has been kidnapped, inprisoned, and stripped of her identify.


Sarcasm to come...

Shouldn't she be grateful ? And happy about it?





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Brightbird]

'Maria' Case Leads Greek Police to Child Trafficking Ring

http://www.novinite.com/articles/154953/'Maria'+Case+Leads+Greek+Police+to+Child+Trafficking+Ring

Over 100 Bulgarian children have been adopted from the hospital in Greece, where Bulgarian Roma girl Maria was born.

The family is very poor and all live in one room. TV footage showed Maria's siblings walking around the filthy home and neighborhood half naked. They seldom have anything to eat, but flour gruel.

bTV also reported that the "blond" gene of the five children was inherited from the mother Sasha who has albinos in her kin.

Greek psychologists established that Maria has been abused. They say she is very aggressive and describe her reactions as those of "a beast."

It was reported meanwhile that the child will be brought to her native country and placed in a crisis center of the family type and later in a foster home.

bbm

I think that article is a bit misleading. It says Bulgarian women went to Greece to give up their children for adoption. It doesn't say they were Roma women, except for one reference further down the article where it says Bulgarian Roma were "recruited" to Greece, but it gives no indication of the number of Roma women. So what, it could be mostly non-Roma women and just a couple of Roma? The other thing that really stands out is that police are investigating hospital workers and municipal officials for organising illegal adoptions. So Bulgarian women go to Greece, give birth at a hospital, and give up their children for adoption. It's hardly some back alley operation. I suspect it looks legitimate to the Mother's and they're being lied to and exploited by the hospital workers and municipal officials.

 

[Wendy101]

I'm well aware that Roma are ostracised, which is why I'm sceptical about some of the allegations against these communities in Bulgaria and Greece.

One of these allegations is the selling of Bulgarian Roma babies to non-Roma in Greece. There are many reasons why this allegation should be viewed sceptically. There are myths about Roma engaging in immoral practices and this is looking like an example of that. Gitana has explained that it's taboo to send Roma children outside the culture. It's pretty clear it's not lucrative so it can't be to get rich. And as you point out, it goes against parental instinct. So either it's a complete fabrication, it's informal adoption among Roma, or it's true. If it's true I'm very interested in what would lead these women to sell their babies, against cultural rules and human instinct, for not much money. Something is very wrong if it's true.

BBM: All have sinned, including the Roma Gyspys, they are not pure, in the eyes of God, no one is! Quite frankly, I am getting a tad bit frustrated when people are stating "they don't do that, it's not their culture". I am sorry, but there are bad apples in every clan, family, culture,whatever you choose to call HUMANS. IMO there ARE people there using and abusing the system, there ARE pedophiles there, there ARE the same sickos there just as there is here in US and Canada. There IS child exploitation there, just as well as there is in US and Canada.

To sit in this forum and try to portray that no Gypsy would ever sell a child, prostitute herself for money, prostitute her kids for money, sleep with a man that is not from culture is just rediculas, IMO.

There is no telling me if some man offered a pretty Gyspy some cash for some sex, she wouldn't do it (because that is her culture) , her babies are starving at home - she will have sex for money..for her family. This happens everywhere in our world, including Us and Canada. There are HUMANS in every culture that would do anything it takes to feed their offspring, IMO a Gyspy woman would do the same regardless this culture I keep hearing about from a few posters.

I am not saying that ALL Gypsy sell their kids or prostitute themselves for their family, but there is deffinaltey SOME that do.. So let's stop pretending that they ALL adhere to their culture..

I would do anything for my child, if he is starving to death, I would lie, steal have, and yes, even prostitute myself.... Anything...except murder.... I would do for my child. It is not in my culture to do any of the things I just admitted I would do.

We have child schemes in US, Canada and guess what.. Roma as well... There are SICK people everywhere in the world using and abusing children in one way or another, and I don't think the Gypsy should be given a "free pass" from this criminal activity or abusing children because we have a Gyspy culture expert on this board telling us "they don't do that, it's not their culture" .

We ALL know this is happening around the world, yet, we are now going to become upset that the LE is looking into it? We are upset because they are being pro-active? We are upset that LE wanted to verify that a lil blonde haired, blue eyed girl was truly the child of a family that did not resemble her? I for one am happy they are out watching and protecting the children...

 

[Brightbird]

BBM: All have sinned, including the Roma Gyspys, they are not pure, in the eyes of God, no one is! Quite frankly, I am getting a tad bit frustrated when people are stating "they don't do that, it's not their culture". I am sorry, but there are bad apples in every clan, family, culture,whatever you choose to call HUMANS. IMO there ARE people there using and abusing the system, there ARE pedophiles there, there ARE the same sickos there just as there is here in US and Canada. There IS child exploitation there, just as well as there is in US and Canada.

To sit in this forum and try to portray that no Gypsy would ever sell a child, prostitute herself for money, prostitute her kids for money, sleep with a man that is not from culture is just rediculas, IMO.

There is no telling me if some man offered a pretty Gyspy some cash for some sex, she wouldn't do it (because that is her culture) , her babies are starving at home - she will have sex for money..for her family. This happens everywhere in our world, including Us and Canada. There are HUMANS in every culture that would do anything it takes to feed their offspring, IMO a Gyspy woman would do the same regardless this culture I keep hearing about from a few posters.

I am not saying that ALL Gypsy sell their kids or prostitute themselves for their family, but here is deffinaltey SOME that do.. So let's stop pretending that they ALL adhere to their culture..

We have child schemes in US, Canada and guess what.. Roma as well... There are SICK people everywhere in the world using and abusing children in one way or another, and I don't think the Gypsy should be given a "free pass" from this criminal activity or abusing children because we have a Gyspy culture expert on this board telling us "they don't do that, it's not their culture" .

Nobody has said there aren't bad apples among the Roma, at least I haven't read it that way. I believe Gitana was trying to show that the bad apples are an exception to the rule, to counter the misperception that Roma are just inherently bad by nature. I think some of us are questioning how this whole thing has been handled and reported, and whether entrenched negative stereotypes against Roma have distorted the truth.

 

[gitana1]

about one million. hard to establish numbers as the roma don't talk about what they call the "porraimos" (the devouring).

That's actually not true. Gypsies indeed talk about it. There are conferences, protests and other battles for recognition and reparations, folk songs handed down, articles, etc.

The problem with calculating the exact number is that a lot of Roma did (and do) lived outside social norms or regulations, and were nomadic. With the Jews, there were birth certificates, marriage certificates and property records that could be matched up with arrest records and other Nazi data or letters from friends and relatives explaining what happened to the person. That's wasn't the case with many Gypsies, who didn't own real estate, or have birth/marriage certificates or were that literate. And many were not registered by the Nazi's who simply shot then where they found them.

I just want to caution everyone that reading some things on the Internet may not give totally accurate info. I'm seeing some misinformation relayed as fact (no disclaimers at all). For example, the only large scale genetic testing of Gypsies have linked them to one another, traced their migration patterns and linked them to specific regions in India. No genetic testing gives actual percentages of ethnicity. Articles on the Internet can also often skew academic research data.

 

[Trident]

That's actually not true. Gypsies indeed talk about it. There are conferences, protests and other battles for recognition and reparations, folk songs handed down, articles, etc.

The problem with calculating the exact number is that a lot of Roma did (and do) lived outside social norms or regulations, and were nomadic. With the Jews, there were birth certificates, marriage certificates and property records that could be matched up with arrest records and other Nazi data or letters from friends and relatives explaining what happened to the person. That's wasn't the case with many Gypsies, who didn't own real estate, or have birth/marriage certificates or were that literate. And many were not registered by the Nazi's who simply shot then where they found them.

I just want to caution everyone that reading some things on the Internet may not give totally accurate info. I'm seeing some misinformation relayed as fact (no disclaimers at all). For example, the only large scale genetic testing of Gypsies have linked them to one another, traced their migration patterns and linked them to specific regions in India. No genetic testing gives actual percentages of ethnicity. Articles on the Internet can also often skew academic research data.

So, are you saying in the bolded part, that maybe we all didn't come out of African from a black mother?

 

[Harmony 2]

I removed 12

posts this morning... please stay on the topic of the thread...

 

[gitana1]

off topic but i had to ask:
which one gitana? :seeya:and where is camaron de la isla?

I would love to say - proud of my family!- but I'm reluctant to reveal things that could identify myself on line! Camaron dela Isla is a person, not a place. My family have worked with him.

BBM: All have sinned, including the Roma Gyspys, they are not pure, in the eyes of God, no one is! Quite frankly, I am getting a tad bit frustrated when people are stating "they don't do that, it's not their culture". I am sorry, but there are bad apples in every clan, family, culture,whatever you choose to call HUMANS. IMO there ARE people there using and abusing the system, there ARE pedophiles there, there ARE the same sickos there just as there is here in US and Canada. There IS child exploitation there, just as well as there is in US and Canada.

To sit in this forum and try to portray that no Gypsy would ever sell a child, prostitute herself for money, prostitute her kids for money, sleep with a man that is not from culture is just rediculas, IMO.

There is no telling me if some man offered a pretty Gyspy some cash for some sex, she wouldn't do it (because that is her culture) , her babies are starving at home - she will have sex for money..for her family. This happens everywhere in our world, including Us and Canada. There are HUMANS in every culture that would do anything it takes to feed their offspring, IMO a Gyspy woman would do the same regardless this culture I keep hearing about from a few posters.

I am not saying that ALL Gypsy sell their kids or prostitute themselves for their family, but there is deffinaltey SOME that do.. So let's stop pretending that they ALL adhere to their culture..

I would do anything for my child, if he is starving to death, I would lie, steal have, and yes, even prostitute myself.... Anything...except murder.... I would do for my child. It is not in my culture to do any of the things I just admitted I would do.

We have child schemes in US, Canada and guess what.. Roma as well... There are SICK people everywhere in the world using and abusing children in one way or another, and I don't think the Gypsy should be given a "free pass" from this criminal activity or abusing children because we have a Gyspy culture expert on this board telling us "they don't do that, it's not their culture" .

We ALL know this is happening around the world, yet, we are now going to become upset that the LE is looking into it? We are upset because they are being pro-active? We are upset that LE wanted to verify that a lil blonde haired, blue eyed girl was truly the child of a family that did not resemble her? I for one am happy they are out watching and protecting the children...

All I can do is transmit info that years of research and personal experience/heritage reveal about cultural norms. You will be hard pressed to find my use of the terms all or none. But years if researching thousands of criminal databases, among other data, back up my statements.

You'll find about as many traditional Gypsy women prostituting themselves or sleeping around as you would in a Arab Muslim family in Saudi Arabia. Virginity, chastity and keeping ones kids in the culture are cultural imperatives that act to sustain the way of life and keep the Roma people from disappearing. The Roma ate a closed group. They survive as a people that way. Those who veer from the cultural norms are usually cast out of the group.

Also, it's not so easy to say "we are all sinners". Crime stats vary from
Culture to culture and region to region. That's a fact. And that's what I studied in relation to the Roma.

 

[Wendy101]

I think some should take off the rose colored glasses and face reality for what it is. JMO.

 

[gitana1]

So, are you saying in the bolded part, that maybe we all didn't come out of African from a black mother?

Indeed I'm not. Africa remains the birthplace of modern man.

 

[gitana1]

Nobody has said there aren't bad apples among the Roma, at least I haven't read it that way. I believe Gitana was trying to show that the bad apples are an exception to the rule, to counter the misperception that Roma are just inherently bad by nature. I think some of us are questioning how this whole thing has been handled and reported, and whether entrenched negative stereotypes against Roma have distorted the truth.

Yes. And let me clarify. While the majority of Roma do not commit crimes, a significant minority in some groups, do, as in the case of many poor people's. But the types of crimes they commit are generally limited. Child abduction of non-Gypsies and prostitution of themselves are not among Roma crimes.

 

[MissMarple]

I would love to say - proud of my family!- but I'm reluctant to reveal things that could identify myself on line! Camaron dela Isla is a person, not a place. My family have worked with him.



All I can do is transmit info that years of research and personal experience/heritage reveal about cultural norms. You will be hard pressed to find my use of the terms all or none. But years if researching thousands of criminal databases, among other data, back up my statements.

You'll find about as many traditional Gypsy women prostituting themselves or sleeping around as you would in a Arab Muslim family in Saudi Arabia. Virginity, chastity and keeping ones kids in the culture are cultural imperatives that act to sustain the way of life and keep the Roma people from disappearing. The Roma ate a closed group. They survive as a people that way. Those who veer from the cultural norms are usually cast out of the group.

Also, it's not so easy to say "we are all sinners". Crime stats vary from
Culture to culture and region to region. That's a fact. And that's what I studied in relation to the Roma.

They do whatever every other nations do...I am linking an article on the murder of the girl this year by her father/later determined it is actually her husband, she was the second five and she was just a teen, many similar example...mother and stepfather sold her and she was registed as his daughter...
http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Hronika/381851/Podgorica-Otac-pretukao-cerku-na-smrt

 

[gitana1]

I think some should take off the rose colored glasses and face reality for what it is. JMO.

Metaphors do not replace crime statistics and fact.