Gun Control Debate #1

[kittythehare]

Care to give any clue what is at the link? Headline or quick summary?

tia

I would not do it justice by attempting to abbreviate it, it is short, though..

 

[Inthedetails]

I would not do it justice by attempting to abbreviate it, it is short, though..

Fine, but I don't click on links just because someone posted it without any indication to what it is. I want to know what it's about before bothering to look at it. Copying the headline is enough.

But, you don't have to. Someone else did.

 

[kittythehare]

Isn't Adam Gopnik far-Left?

I have no idea what his politics are, or what anybody's politics are and I could not care less.
I shared it for the content .

 

[kittythehare]

What the actual.... Umm... Where to start.... So those two men wouldn't have victimized that young lady if she'd been armed? This 18 year old young victim, who you seem to be blaming and saying she "allowed" that horror?!?! What, by not having a gun? So there is nothing between allowing oneself to be brutalized and always being armed? This post is just bizarre. This kind of extreme statement and sentiment helps no argument.

Good point. I'm not familiar with the case but there's a very good chance her gun would have been used against her if she was smaller than the attacker..

 

[Inthedetails]

Good point. I'm not familiar with the case but there's a very good chance her gun would have been used against her if she was smaller than the attacker..

It's a case with ugliness and violence used for its shock value.

It is shocking. It doesn't makes a case against gun regulations, though. It has nothing to do with regulations, imo.

jmo

 

[watergirl62]

it does, thanks..
BUT- they're locked in a safe, there'
s a burglar who is a known assassin in the garden and you forgot to lock the back door, how the hell do you get to the cupboard , find the keys, take the thing out, load it and whatever else you need to do and then aim it and then blow him away.. that's quite a few minutes, is it not?

Those were the things I had to deal with when I was advised to get a shotgun to protect my sanctuary, I just knew it would be useless because I am awkward and slow..

Just one other q, if you don't mind- the concealed permit- does that mean little old ladies carry them in their handbags and go to the shops with them and it is not a good idea to annoy them for that reason?

I remember meeting cops when I was in the states, many years ago and asking them about their guns...like 'is that real, can I hold it?' And I visited a mafia owned club in Burlington and they all had guns so I knew not to misbehave too much...
A hobby... I can see that.
Thanks a lot.

Honestly, I lose way sleep more worrying about the teen than possible intruder scenarios. Think of a cross section of people you know... I am sure there are a couple that for whatever reason you would not want to have easy access to a gun. It is like that.

Personally, it all comes down to case-by-case risk assessment, priorities and responsible gun ownership.

 

[rosemadderlake]

It is fear based propaganda. Every time there is a mass killing and gun control is mentioned the NRA and some politicians start with the fear mongering driving gun sales up. IMO

Yep. This response outline from my newfound NRA link shows a well oiled protocol. It then fans out all over social media, with supporting politicians to counter the backlash after these tragedies. And gun sales go through the roof.

IMO- Part of the task of change is to tear the roof off the sucker and expose the rats in the room. It's not the gun owners either, many of whom do not and would not join or support the NRA.

It is mind numbing propaganda that seeks to protect a billion dollar industry with its kept politicians ensuring its success.



The modern-day NRA has a well-established response formula after mass shootings

This is the NRA we know today, the one to whom lawmakers and the media turn after a firearm massacre such as in Las Vegas.

When this happens, the NRA has a well-established protocol for its response.

First ... the organization remains silent for a period of days, offering only a message of sympathy for the victims and a request that the tragedy "not be politicized."

Then ... the organization begins to engage, usually through a few officers and spokespersons who have been through this multiple times, such as the chief lobbyist, Chris W. Cox, and its executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre.

LaPierre made the rounds of TV talk shows and cable channels this weekend, reciting a well-practiced catechism defending his faith in guns, their use in self-protection and the NRA view of the Constitution.

That is, as follows:

1. That the Second Amendment guarantees the right to "keep and bear arms," and the Supreme Court has recently reaffirmed that this right applies to private individuals and not just to organized militias (as referenced in the Constitution), but also to private individual citizens.

2. The organization lays the blame for gun violence on criminals and the producers of Hollywood movies and video games and the failures of the mental health system.

3. It reminds that it is not possible to legislate away the evil in the world.

Finally, and repeatedly, the NRA repeats its mantra: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Or, as LaPierre put it Sunday, "It comes down to ... if your glass breaks in the middle of the night, there is not a government authority on the planet that substitutes for your right to own a firearm."

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/10/556578593/the-nra-wasnt-always-against-gun-restrictions

 

[Inthedetails]

IMO- Part of the task of change is to tear the roof off the sucker and expose the rats in the room. It's not the gun owners either, many of whom do not and would not join or support the NRA.

Snipped by me.

Yes. Just like what is (finally) happening about sexual harassment. Shine a light on it.

jmo

 

[Gardenista]

I'm a law-abiding citizen and a gun owner who strongly believes in my right to protect my family. I'm also a parent to a high school freshman who gets withdrawn after every single one of these shootings and doesn't want to go to school. She asks me how this keeps happening and why nobody is doing anything about it. What do I tell her? There is absolutely no reason in the world that an 18-year-old with known mental health issues should be able to legally buy a weapon that has no other purpose than to obliterate as many people as possible. How could that possibly have had a good outcome? But under our current gun laws it was perfectly legal. The last time I bought a rifle, I just had to give them my name and DOB and social and check a box to indicate if I was mentally ill or not. Really???? We have GOT to do better to keep our kids safe.

Pretty sure if he would have been charged/convicted of his crimes, he wouldn't have been able to purchase.

 

[Ambitioned]

It's a case with ugliness and violence used for its shock value.

It is shocking. It doesn't makes a case against gun regulations, though. It has nothing to do with regulations, imo.

jmo

Sure it does. I see people on here telling others what guns they want them to have or not have. Isn't that really people control? Who will go around rounding them all up? Once you pass laws confiscating this gun or that gun, the law abiding civilians will turn theirs in while the criminals and gangs will still keep theirs.

Yes it is shocking like many, many cases.

I would like to use my Second Amendment rights to protect myself rather than letting anti gun people use our kids to protect their anti Second Amendment agenda.

:moo:

 

[Ambitioned]

Pretty sure if he would have been charged/convicted of his crimes, he wouldn't have been able to purchase.

Exactly. The ball was dropped in several places!!

 

[Gardenista]

If You Want Gun Control, Stop Calling The NRA A ‘Terrorist Organization’
If gun control advocates ever want gun owners to come to the table, they need to stop mindless name-calling or risk further dividing the country and neutering their cause.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/19/want-gun-control-stop-calling-nra-terrorist-organization/

 

[Inthedetails]

Sure it does. I see people on here telling others what guns they want them to have or not have. Isn't that really people control? Who will go around rounding them all up? Once you pass laws confiscating this gun or that gun, the law abiding civilians will turn theirs in while the criminals and gangs will still keep theirs.

Yes it is shocking like many, many cases.

I would like to use my Second Amendment rights to protect myself rather than letting anti gun people use our kids to protect their anti Second Amendment agenda.

:moo:

I haven't seen anything about confiscating guns. Gun regulations, yes. Confiscating? Haven't seen that.

That would be scary to think of someone coming into your house to take your legally-obtained possessions. But, I haven't seen any call for that.

I've seen a call for regulations and safe guards regarding purchases.

jmo

 

[kittythehare]

Sure it does. I see people on here telling others what guns they want them to have or not have. Isn't that really people control? Who will go around rounding them all up? Once you pass laws confiscating this gun or that gun, the law abiding civilians will turn theirs in while the criminals and gangs will still keep theirs.

Yes it is shocking like many, many cases.

I would like to use my Second Amendment rights to protect myself rather than letting anti gun people use our kids to protect their anti Second Amendment agenda.

:moo:

I'll say it, if you like?
I would like to see all guns banned and confiscated.
I have no agenda apart from keeping people safe.
Thats straight up.

 

[kittythehare]

Here is an article about the Baltimore kids
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-0218-rector-violence-20180216-story.html

Nearly 90 percent of the 342 people killed here last year were killed with a firearm, and most of those — nearly 300 – were killed with a handgun.

These kids, like those in Florida, know firsthand the toll of gun violence in their communities. At the moment, they stand to inherit a nation of regular massacres. We owe it to them to listen.

About 44 percent of identified homicide suspects and 46 percent of victims in Baltimore in 2017 had previously been arrested for gun crimes, according to police data.

 

[Tillicum]

Here is an article about the Baltimore kids
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-0218-rector-violence-20180216-story.html

Nearly 90 percent of the 342 people killed here last year were killed with a firearm, and most of those — nearly 300 – were killed with a handgun.

These kids, like those in Florida, know firsthand the toll of gun violence in their communities. At the moment, they stand to inherit a nation of regular massacres. We owe it to them to listen.

About 44 percent of identified homicide suspects and 46 percent of victims in Baltimore in 2017 had previously been arrested for gun crimes, according to police data.

Of the 343 people killed in Baltimore in 2017, 88 percent were killed with a firearm, including 295 with a handgun and six with a shotgun or rifle, according to Baltimore Police data released Wednesday

About 86 percent of the victims and 85 percent of the 118 suspects identified by police had prior criminal records. And about 46 percent of victims and 44 percent of suspects had previously been arrested for gun crimes, the data show.

Of the guns used, the “overwhelming majority of them are going to be illegally possessed,” said T.J. Smith, a police spokesman.

BBM http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...7-homicide-data-breakdown-20180103-story.html

 

[Elley Mae]

Of the guns used, the “overwhelming majority of them are going to be illegally possessed,” said T.J. Smith, a police spokesman.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...7-homicide-data-breakdown-20180103-story.html

The average homicide victim in Baltimore in 2017 had 11 previous arrests on his record. About 73 percent had drug arrests, and nearly 50 percent had been arrested for a violent crime. About 30 percent were on parole or probation at the time they were killed, and more than 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime.

Twenty percent of the victims were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

The average homicide suspect, meanwhile, had 9 previous arrests on his record. About 70 percent had drug arrests, and nearly half had been arrested for a violent crime. Nearly 36 percent were on parole or probation, and 6 percent were on parole or probation for a gun crime, the data show.

Eighteen percent of the suspects were known members of a gang or drug crew, according to the data.

Police did not know the motive behind nearly half of the killings, but at least 20 were related to retaliation, according to the data.


Snip

Thirteen were children.

 

[kittythehare]

Of the 343 people killed in Baltimore in 2017, 88 percent were killed with a firearm, including 295 with a handgun and six with a shotgun or rifle, according to Baltimore Police data released Wednesday

About 86 percent of the victims and 85 percent of the 118 suspects identified by police had prior criminal records. And about 46 percent of victims and 44 percent of suspects had previously been arrested for gun crimes, the data show.

Of the guns used, the “overwhelming majority of them are going to be illegally possessed,” said T.J. Smith, a police spokesman.

BBM http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...7-homicide-data-breakdown-20180103-story.html

[FONT=&amp]87 Baltimore kids (under 18) killed since 2012. (11 in 2012, 10 in 2013, 16 in 2014, 22 in 2015, 15 in 2016, 12 in 2017, and one so far in 2018
[/FONT] https://homicides.news.baltimoresun.com/index.php

[FONT=&amp]The point of my original post was about the type of gun used, not whether or not it was legally held.

Guns are killing people.
If there were no guns, people would kill less because it would be more difficult.
Guns kill and guns kill quickly and easily.
These are children.
[/FONT]

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

The 2A is never going away, especially after SM has exposed the deep hatred the MSM & many Americans have for fellow citizens who do not agree with them. They are certainly vicious.

That’s an abysmally depressing take on the state of America, imo. I’m sorry you fee that way about our country.

Personally, I take all social media with a grain (pile) of salt, because it’s largely anonymous opinion and often campaigning by unknown groups, especially on Twitter.

Overall, I enjoy a hearty discourse. That’s how reasonable decisions are made, imo. ... Thoughtful people listening to each other. I hope we all can seek that out and embrace it, and then hopefully things might not seem so bleak.

And I believe the fourth estate is possibly more important now than it’s been in decades. Speaking truth to power will always create some blowback, but such is the nature of the beast. The first amendment is non-negotiable.

Peace be to you, Gardenista.

t/p

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Agree and I've seen some kicking themselves and warning likeminded hateful, bigots, to cool it. It is too late though. We'd be stupid to give anything up to a group who genuinely loathes us.

Which group are you speaking of?