Gun Control Debate #1

[rsd1200]

I meant to post this here but posted it in the other thread by accident...

Interesting read.

The shooter is almost always male. Of the past 129 mass shootings in the United States, all but three have been men. The shooter is socially alienated, and he can’t get laid. Every time you scratch the surface of the latest mass killing, in a movie theatre, a school, the streets of Paris or an abortion clinic, you find the weaponised loser. From Jihadi John of ISIS to Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris at Columbine, these men are invariably stuck in the emotional life of an adolescent. They always struggle with self-esteem – especially regarding women – and sometimes they give up entirely on the possibility of amorous fulfilment. There are different levels of tactical coordination, different ostensible grievances and different access to firearms, but the psyche beneath is invariably the same.

https://aeon.co/essays/humiliation-and-rage-how-toxic-masculinity-fuels-mass-shootings

 

[rsd1200]

Also, with this kid's background, I strongly feel that, at least until he was 21, and re-evaluated, that he should have been flagged and unable to legally purchase firearms, nor should he have been able to participate in marksmanship in JROTC.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...55346f6de81_story.html?utm_term=.c0c14770dc4d

Shooter was on NRA sponsored rifle team.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hooting-suspect-nra-grant-20180216-story.html

 

[Gardenista]

which laws do you mean?

All laws.

 

[kittythehare]

Also, with this kid's background, I strongly feel that, at least until he was 21, and re-evaluated, that he should have been flagged and unable to legally purchase firearms, nor should he have been able to participate in marksmanship in JROTC.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...55346f6de81_story.html?utm_term=.c0c14770dc4d

Shooter was on NRA sponsored rifle team.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hooting-suspect-nra-grant-20180216-story.html

He was good at shooting.. I have a feeling it was his only skill..
Possibly the reason nobody took it away from him.. he always behaved well at training.. enjoyed it enormously..
think it went belly-up for him when he failed to maintain the very dysfunctional relationship he shared with the girl who replaced him with somebody else..
It was after that he started cutting up on himself... felt so impotent he had to do one big thing to reinstate his ego, maybe?/ dunno, speculating wildly..
such a tragedy.. such a loss..

 

[kittythehare]

All laws.

- gun debate
-trying to sort a framework
-sanctuary cities
-all laws

Where is the connection?
We were heading somewhere..

 

[Gardenista]

The kids were not arrested so they can buy a gun

Authorities Investigate Twitter Threats to Shoot Up Driftwood Middle School in Hollywood

Police said the students who are responsible for the threats won't face criminal charges but will be reprimanded by the school.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...oot-Up-Driftwood-Middle-School-412904593.html

 

[Spellbound]

Ben Domenech‏Verified account
@bdomenech
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In the space of 3 weeks, major networks said:
-North Korea is really a beautiful place
-Kim Jong Un's sister is a diplomatic genius
-"Anglo-American" is a racist dogwhistle
-Christians are mentally ill
-NRA members are mentally ill
What's next?

https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/965127005313224704

What major networks? I would like to see these comments. sounds like FOX News?

 

[kimlynn]

The kids were not arrested so they can buy a gun

Authorities Investigate Twitter Threats to Shoot Up Driftwood Middle School in Hollywood

Police said the students who are responsible for the threats won't face criminal charges but will be reprimanded by the school.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...oot-Up-Driftwood-Middle-School-412904593.html

Failure to act is part of the reason for Columbine. I watched a few vids last night to refresh my memory on Columbine and sadly the only thing that has changed since then is police response time in entering the buildings. IMO

 

[rsd1200]

He was good at shooting.. I have a feeling it was his only skill..
Possibly the reason nobody took it away from him.. he always behaved well at training.. enjoyed it enormously..
think it went belly-up for him when he failed to maintain the very dysfunctional relationship he shared with the girl who replaced him with somebody else..
It was after that he started cutting up on himself... felt so impotent he had to do one big thing to reinstate his ego, maybe?/ dunno, speculating wildly..
such a tragedy.. such a loss..

I'm really wary/against firearms for kids like this one. He had far too many red flags before he went to JROTC. Even if he was well behaved there, he still should have been flagged from being able to legally purchasing a firearm. This is a kid who had LE called to his home 10s of times over an eight year period. I'm not saying flag folks forever b/c of troubles in school, but at least til after they have matured and they are not having these issues. Then again, it may not have helped at all. Ban the ARs and he could've easily built something from YouTube, and Home Depot.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

What major networks? I would like to see these comments. sounds like FOX News?

Sounds more like CNN or MSNBC.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Agree. Add to that the abolition of sanctuary cities.

It goes to following our laws

Well there was agreement that we follow laws.

All laws.

Respectfully, I am finding this confusing. Afaik the mass shooting happened in a small Florida town and here it has spurred a meaningful discussion about gun control. Unless I am missing something, how does sanctuary cities relate to the discussion? Every city has gun violence. And, regardless of one's politics, whether a city provides sanctuary, or immigration reform is not the topic of this thread.

Furthermore, I have really appreciated hearing all sides of this very important issue without it devolving off the subject or into a politically contenscious arena.

I also appreciate those viewpoints from WSers from other countries providing illuminating insight.

Can't solve all the problems at once... Unfortunately.

 

[kittythehare]

I'm really wary/against firearms for kids like this one. He had far too many red flags before he went to JROTC. Even if he was well behaved there, he still should have been flagged from being able to legally purchasing a firearm. This is a kid who had LE called to his home 10s of times over an eight year period. I'm not saying flag folks forever b/c of troubles in school, but at least til after they have matured and they are not having these issues. Then again, it may not have helped at all. Ban the ARs and he could've easily built something from YouTube, and Home Depot.

I hear you, I just do not understand gun culture.. particularly teenage gun culture.. In Ireland they are sports mad.. I don't understand that either.. have aversion to it and see it as pointless..
But, it's very difficult to get a gun licence here, for hunting or farming..

I'm not sure how much progress he made over the years developmentally..if any..

My knowledge is pretty much limited to what I read here and in the nYT article
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...las-cruz-cutting-snapchat-20180216-story.html

But, I digress.. shall we continue to discuss the points/framework Inthedetail so kindly worked?

Or shall we discuss the gun culture that permits kids to have guns to begin with?

I think her's is a good and reasonable framework ??

 

[rsd1200]

I hear you, I just do not understand gun culture.. particularly teenage gun culture.. In Ireland they are sports mad.. I don't understand that either.. have aversion to it and see it as pointless..
But, it's very difficult to get a gun licence here, for hunting or farming..

I'm not sure how much progress he made over the years developmentally..if any..

My knowledge is pretty much limited to what I read here and in the nYT article
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...las-cruz-cutting-snapchat-20180216-story.html

But, I digress.. shall we continue to discuss the points/framework Inthedetail so kindly worked?

Or shall we discuss the gun culture that permits kids to have guns to begin with?

I think her's is a good and reasonable framework ??

That's kind of my point for #3. He was one of the ones who should not have been allowed to purchase. A change in law should happen for kids like the shooter. Age 21, before purchase of anything more than a hunting rifle. If there were mental health concerns, then a release by their physician. (Folks can move beyond childhood depression.) We have bear and bobcat here, and many young folks hunt deer, too, starting young. It's a way of life. While ARs can be used to hunt, they are not necessary for hunting.

 

[kaen]

Ben Domenech‏Verified account
@bdomenech
Follow Follow @bdomenech
More
In the space of 3 weeks, major networks said:
-North Korea is really a beautiful place
-Kim Jong Un's sister is a diplomatic genius
-"Anglo-American" is a racist dogwhistle
-Christians are mentally ill
-NRA members are mentally ill
What's next?

https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/965127005313224704

I thought Twitter postings in this usage was against TOS. There are so many opinionists out there who are trying to rally the edges.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Well, I guess the headline is technically accurate, although I will point out that it's the 18th "leading" cause of death.

Importantly, though: Where you live in the US makes a very big difference in those odds. If you live in a high crime, urban area, it's a lot higher then 1 in 315. If not, then it's much lower.

The headline is *technically* accurate? It’s a teaser headline; it doesn’t say anything. (It’s a terrible headline, in my opinion, regardless of its accuracy. LOL)

And the story is literally correct. It’s not misleading. It discusses the leading causes of death in America.

I bet diabetes rates are higher or lower in certain parts of the country, too. And heart disease. And pedestrian deaths. ... Ad infinitum.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Hey Everyone,

So far the thread has not melted down. This makes me very happy.

Please remember it is not up to members to tell other members how to post. You can scroll and roll or you can alert if you see something against our terms of service.

Thank you,
Tricia

(Bump)

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

So, last night when I posted that this thread was going along and not melting down, it started melting down.

You know who you are.

No sarcasm

No insulting

No baiting

No telling other posters how to post or what to post

Today no more warnings. Timeout or bans will take place.

Happy posting.

Tricia

(Bump)

 

[bears10]

The headline is *technically* accurate? It’s a teaser headline; it doesn’t say anything. (It’s a terrible headline, in my opinion, regardless of its accuracy. LOL)

And the story is literally correct. It’s not misleading. It discusses the leading causes of death in America.

I bet diabetes rates are higher or lower in certain parts of the country, too. And heart disease. And pedestrian deaths. ... Ad infinitum.

You are FAR more likely to be a victim of gun violence in Newark NJ or Camden NJ than say, Chatham NJ or Marlboro NJ. For many reasons. I think OP was just trying to say that the statistic varies greatly based on your town or city of residence. I don’t think the diabetes rates in Camden and Newark varies nearly as much from Chatham or Marlboro the way the firearm death rates do. JMO

 

[Vapor]

Imo.. guns and the 2nd amendment arent going anywhere in this day in age, nor should they. The real issue here which is much harder to address and takes alot longer, is cultural. Mental illness no doubt plays its part, but when you have a nation like the United States, which has literally lost its cultural identity over decades of being balkanized, these things happen. Rather than focus on the common tool being used to commit the crime, we, in general, need to step outside the box the presstitutes and politicians put us in and see the bigger picture.

Also.. The term, “Assault weapon” is a red herring.. its very misleading to those who dont know or care for guns. People genuinely need to understand that for the sake of the 2nd amendment. You either have semi-automatic or automatic.

 

[yurena]

This is how I really feel, without having the guts to say it.

Invariably in any discussion about guns, someone will say, "Nobody wants to take all your guns away". I get a little twitch in my index finger and think about raising my hand and saying in a squeaky little voice, "I do".

But I never raise my hand. I find it too scary to be an American and do/say something like that.

The second amendment is just not dear to my heart.

I figure that even taking all guns away, there would still be plenty around. Of course, it would be pointed out how "well" prohibition worked, and how undesirable a black market is. And how there is a need to defend hearth and home. Myself, I prefer to arm myself with an illegal lawn dart.

However, since I do have eyes and ears and a a bit of brain power, I accept that the second amendment is not going anywhere, ever, nor are guns. What (all) I can hope for is control.

I'm glad someone from another country spoke up and laid it out here as I would have, given more guts. I find it hard to say this stuff as an American living in the land of John Wayne.

The situation we have got going on now in the U.S., with bodies being decimated in groups as people do average, everyday things like go to school, go to a concert, club, church, or restaurant, is truly getting to be a bit much. Beside losing our precious people, we look like bozos to the world. It's time to make changes which to some people would look drastic but to me would be only a start.

(I have put on a slicker and am ready for the tomatoes lol.)

Wonderful post. With Americans like you there is hope :clap: