Gun Control Debate #2

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I keep thinking that at least 90% or more of the school shooters were able to obtain firearms from a family member's home. Would a PSA about locking up your firearms be worthwhile? Maybe show trigger locks, and/or different safe types? I really think that it needs to start at home. If folks don't keep their firearms away from their kids, we are not going to stop seeing dead children. Toddlers are shooting their mothers, dead, while they are driving down the highway, or shopping in Walmart because of easy access to their purses. Siblings are shooting siblings because they find a firearm in the home. Teens are taking parents firearms to school, or the ones parents bought for them, and killing other children. I think we're leaving out a big piece of the puzzle.

But if shooters are over age 18 and obtained the gun legally, or accessed them legally (even from a parent’s home), there’s not much to keep them from using them.

Gun safety will always be an issue, like you said. Especially when there’s little liability for adults who don’t properly secure firearms from curious young children. Maybe requiring liability insurance would help? It might make them more accountable.
 
I don't see where he "cowered in a corner"? I do see where the sheriff acknowledged that he/a guard could have killed the shooter.

And I'm not sure why no school with armed guards is a viable option because one school's guard failed.

Sheriff Scott Israel during a press conference Thursday said video showed Peterson arriving at the west side of the building where the shooting took place. Peterson, Israel said, took up a position but "never went in."

Peterson was armed and in uniform during the shooting, but never entered the building despite "clearly" knowing a shooting was happening, Israel said.

The sheriff said he believes Peterson remained outside of the building for four minutes, while the shooting in total lasted six minutes. Israel said the officer never fired his weapon.

Israel said he's "devastated. Sick to my stomach. There are no words."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...never-went-in-amid-shooting-sheriff-says.html

I'd say the above actions of Scot Peterson qualify as "cowering in a corner" - especially since he was well aware that an active shooter was on the scene and he took no action to protect the students he was charged with protecting.

As far as I'm concerned, Peterson is a disgusting coward.
 
Sheriff Scott Israel during a press conference Thursday said video showed Peterson arriving at the west side of the building where the shooting took place. Peterson, Israel said, took up a position but "never went in."

Peterson was armed and in uniform during the shooting, but never entered the building despite "clearly" knowing a shooting was happening, Israel said.

The sheriff said he believes Peterson remained outside of the building for four minutes, while the shooting in total lasted six minutes. Israel said the officer never fired his weapon.

Israel said he's "devastated. Sick to my stomach. There are no words."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...never-went-in-amid-shooting-sheriff-says.html

I'd say the above actions of Scot Peterson qualify as "cowering in a corner" - especially since he was well aware that an active shooter was on the scene and he took no action to protect the students he was charged with protecting.

As far as I'm concerned, Peterson is a disgusting coward.

They sign up for this stuff

I get a citizen with some gun not running into a what sounds like Iraq!!

Ladies and Gentlemen

May I present the real NRA Dana lady

good lord

what a hypocrite

Caution: May result in nausea and vomiting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtGOQFf9VCE
 
If it becomes illegal, then the govt can come knock on his door. I don’t see them doing that. JMO. And FYI I’m not mocking anyone.

Why wouldn't they if it's illegal and they know he has it? We would expect them to knock on the door of a drug dealer if they knew he was slinging crack.
 
I keep thinking that at least 90% or more of the school shooters were able to obtain firearms from a family member's home. Would a PSA about locking up your firearms be worthwhile? Maybe show trigger locks, and/or different safe types? I really think that it needs to start at home. If folks don't keep their firearms away from their kids, we are not going to stop seeing dead children. Toddlers are shooting their mothers, dead, while they are driving down the highway, or shopping in Walmart because of easy access to their purses. Siblings are shooting siblings because they find a firearm in the home. Teens are taking parents firearms to school, or the ones parents bought for them, and killing other children. I think we're leaving out a big piece of the puzzle.

Most of the kids who do this, their parents would never in a million years believe their kid capable. They trust their children. As you said, they buy firearms for them. PSAs and suggesting they lock up their firearms do nothing if the parent can't even fathom their child doing something like this.

Dylan Klebold's mother has a TED talk. I recommend it.
 
So, what do we do? Build fortresses? Ban gun types? Assume that just because a school or community hires an armed guard, he or she is likely to cause more harm than good? A school shooting is the liability of all liabilities.


And in the case of Columbine, the guard didn't create a situation where panicked kids screamed and ran around. He and his back-up successfully evacuated students before SWAT even arrived.

Not sure regarding the guard evacuating students. As I recall LE didn't enter the building for several hours and that was one of the issues that stood out about Columbine. IMO
 
2, 182 mph (not a typo ) speed of bullets from his machine gun

oh good lord Trump is talking about JOhn Kelly -- if he was in a school armed that would be good

what the heck is he even talking about

How does he get John Kelly connected to a math teacher

he is now babbling about reitred coast guard guys go into teaching when they retire from the coast guard ?

what on earth is he even talking about??

we are in deep

they are all losing contact with realltiy

" a little bit of a bonus: for risking your life

1000 buck little bonus would cost 700 million based on his 20% figure

MSNBC

MSNBC
 
I think the Parkland shooting is pretty much a case study on all the ways adults and people in authority are failing our children, from the top on down. We can and must do better. IMO. [emoji174]

Sheriff Scott Israel during a press conference Thursday said video showed Peterson arriving at the west side of the building where the shooting took place. Peterson, Israel said, took up a position but "never went in."

Peterson was armed and in uniform during the shooting, but never entered the building despite "clearly" knowing a shooting was happening, Israel said.

The sheriff said he believes Peterson remained outside of the building for four minutes, while the shooting in total lasted six minutes. Israel said the officer never fired his weapon.

Israel said he's "devastated. Sick to my stomach. There are no words."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...never-went-in-amid-shooting-sheriff-says.html

I'd say the above actions of Scot Peterson qualify as "cowering in a corner" - especially since he was well aware that an active shooter was on the scene and he took no action to protect the students he was charged with protecting.

As far as I'm concerned, Peterson is a disgusting coward.
 
Why wouldn't they if it's illegal and they know he has it? We would expect them to knock on the door of a drug dealer if they knew he was slinging crack.

In a perfect world.
 
Most of the kids who do this, their parents would never in a million years believe their kid capable. They trust their children. As you said, they buy firearms for them. PSAs and suggesting they lock up their firearms do nothing if the parent can't even fathom their child doing something like this.

Dylan Klebold's mother has a TED talk. I recommend it.

I remember the Cascade Mall killer his parents tired and tried to get mental health

I truly believe the militia teachers idea just popped into his head random right in the moment

One kids spinal cord was cut in half


at that speed entry wounds are size of oranges
 
rsbm for focus



The crosstalk is not transcribed, and is labeled “crosstalk.” That’s why the full video (in the link) is included.

Crosstalk, as a general rule, isn’t transcribed. No conspiracy, imo. No ill intent, imo. No bias, imo.

It’s a transcript, not biased reporting.

Welp, now that’s been cleared up.

Thanks for adding more detail.

I know exactly what crosstalk is.

The funny thing is CNN didn't denote any (CROSSTALK) in the part I quoted from the transcript. Yep like I said, biased!
 
But if shooters are over age 18 and obtained the gun legally, or accessed them legally (even from a parent’s home), there’s not much to keep them from using them.

Gun safety will always be an issue, like you said. Especially when there’s little liability for adults who don’t properly secure firearms from curious young children. Maybe requiring liability insurance would help? It might make them more accountable.

I think education might help though. A PSA with statistics. Hard statistics. No, some folks won't listen, and will scoff it off, but spell it out; X number of children died last year because they found access to their loved one's firearm. Most of the school shooter's are under 18. It may also save some lives of siblings being accidentally killed by other siblings.

I'm also okay with raising the min age to 21. Ya can't buy alcohol til 21 and they're thinking of raising the age of buying cigs to 21. I used to buy alcohol, easily, at 17, and cigarettes, no one looked twice at me at age 14. It was determined, years later, that neither were good ideas for folks to make decisions about at such ages, so the laws tightened. I still remember when cops would call someone to come get you when you were driving intoxicated, but after the Carollton bus crash, in '88, that all changed.

I'm not anti 2nd Amendment, I think everyone knows that at this point, but we have over 350 million people in the U.S. and probably 700 million+ firearms. We are not Australia. Australia may be about our size, but not even close in our population size, we can't have cops just knocking on everyone's door and doing searches. That'd be against the 4th Amendment I'd think, and I'm not real kosher with that.
 
Most of the kids who do this, their parents would never in a million years believe their kid capable. They trust their children. As you said, they buy firearms for them. PSAs and suggesting they lock up their firearms do nothing if the parent can't even fathom their child doing something like this.

Dylan Klebold's mother has a TED talk. I recommend it.

Would it cost that much to try though? I know they don't think their child will be a school shooter, but something urging parents who have firearms, to put locks on them, or put them in safes.
 
Me too on the bank yanking the NRA credit card. It's a start. IMO

What does the yellow thing mean !! Input cursor on it and nothing happened

Translation requested !

Hopefully more corporations that are not foind of kids being diced up withhold supports for NRA ha then maybe they wont have money to blackmail our leaders

best idea I have heard this week!!

boycotts !!
 
For the record, here is the exchange. CNN inserts applause, booing and crosstalk when it fits their agenda in my opinion.

LOESCH: Well first off Emma, I want to applaud you for standing up and speaking out. And for anyone who has ever criticized you or any of these students up here, including people who have been on my side of this issue, I don't think that anyone should deny you your voice or deny you your position because you are young.

GONZALEZ: I want to thank you for that.

LOESCH: I was a very politically active teenager and I'm on this stage as a result of that. Think of how far you all could go, as a result of voicing your beliefs.
Now, I want to answer your question. And, I want to be allowed the opportunity, which is why I am here. To talk and have this discussion with you all and answer these questions. This is why I came down here.
I don't believe that this insane monster should have ever been able to obtain a firearm, ever. I do not think that he should have gotten his hands on any kind of weapon. That's number one.
This individual was nuts and I, nor the millions of people that I represent as a part of this organization, that I'm here speaking for, none of us support people who are crazy, who are a danger to themselves, who are a danger to others, getting their hands on a firearm.
And, we have been, for over 20 years, and I have been screaming about this, which is why I'm here, because I have kids and I'm not just fighting for my kids, I'm fighting for you, I'm fighting for you, I'm fighting for all of you.
Because I don't want anyone to ever be in this position again. I want everyone to think about this for one second, this goes right into your question. Do you know that it is not federally required for states to actually report people who are prohibited possessors, crazy people, people who are murderers?
No, we've been actually talking about that for a long time. Let me answer the question. Let me answer the question. You can shout me down when I'm finished, but let me answer Emma's question.
It is not federal law for states to report convictions to the NICS system. It's not federally mandated. That's the big question and I wish that this network had also covered this more, as other media networks would have covered it.
That's a huge - - wait a second, wait a second . . .

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You guys, if I can't hear her statement, I can't come up with a rebuttal. Please.

LOESCH: Do you guys want to stop mentally insane individuals from getting firearms. Yes? They have to be in this system. If they are convicted. You can convict them, you can adjudicate the mentally unfit, if a state does not report it to the National Crime Information Center, when you run that form, this individual - - this madman passed a background check.
How was he able to pass a background check? He was able to pass a background check because we have a system that's flawed. The Southerland Springs murderer was able to pass a background check because the Air Force did not report that record.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I'm gonna interrupt you real quick and remind you that the question is actually, do you believe it should be harder to obtain these semi-automatic weapons and modifications to make them fully automatic, such as bump stocks?
(APPLAUSE)
 
Shooters:

How long did it take you guys in practice to feel proficient in shooting
 
Plan was to take Lunesta earlier than typical

Afraid I might have a nightmare of Mr Whalen becoming quick draw mccaw!!

Freeze --

 
Incorrect, from my experience. This isn’t a conspiracy, imo. These transcripts are often done via computer app/program.

Getting back on topic.

Thank you for adding to the transcription. It’s informative, imo. It’s appreciated.

I never used the word conspiracy. I said CNN was biased.

I'm glad the video is at the link for all to see. You would think with all that crosstalk the computer/app would have picked it up. Not to mention booing at the mention of a rape victim that wished they had a gun. :rolleyes:
 
Three huge car rental agency have just cancelled any contact with NRA

this might be a really good idea

Here are others

LifeLine Screening

The preventative health company based in Austin, Texas says on a NRA-specific website that members can “take advantage of affordable discounts.” A representative did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
Symantec

Norton anti-malware software, developed and distributed by Symantec Corporation, offers NRA members discounts on various subscription rates. Members can get $37 off a standard membership, $52 off a deluxe membership, and $62 off a premium membership. A representative for Symantec did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
Allied Van Lines

The moving company offers unspecified discounts to NRA members through a special website. A representative did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
NorthAmerican Van Lines

The moving company, owned by the same parent company as Allied Van Lines, also offers discounts to NRA members. “It’s a great program,” a customer service representative told ThinkProgress. “We’ve been doing this for many many years for NRA members.”
SimpliSafe

NRA members receive two months free of SimpliSafe’s monitoring with the purchase of any new home security system. A representative did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
Starkey Hearing Technologies

The NRA partners with this prominent hearing aid technology company to offer discounted hearing aids and “free consultations” for its members. A representative did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
ManageUrID

Members are encouraged to protect their “privacy and financial security” through a subscription to this privacy protection service, though no discount is specified. A representative did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
Life Insurance Central

The NRA-endorsed term life company is listed as providing “higher coverage amounts” for members on life insurance policies. A representative did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
Medical Concierge Network

Unspecified “specialized exclusive benefits” are offered for members who want to join this “personal health advisory service.” The company’s founder, Greg Nassief, told ThinkProgress that he has no comment on the company’s relationship with the NRA, noting that it is not political and that his company has similar relationships “with several entities across all sorts of categories.”
eHealth

Members are invited to purchase health insurance plans through eHealth’s exchange, though no specific discount is specified. A representative did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
Teladoc

NRA members are offered a $14.95 “discounted monthly rate” for this telemedicine service. In an email, the company’s communications director Courtney McLeod told ThinkProgress that “Teladoc is not an NRA partner” and that “they offer our services (access to healthcare), just as they could offer access to any number of consumer products or services.” When ThinkProgress pointed out that the NRA site claims “a specially-discounted group rate for NRA members,” McLeod said the company “does not have a direct relationship with the NRA” and that any group rate was negotiated with a third party.

NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION MEMBERS VISIT EXHIBITOR BOOTHS AT THE 146TH NRA ANNUAL MEETINGS & EXHIBITS ON APRIL 29, 2017 IN ATLANTA, GEORGIA. CREDIT: SCOTT OLSON/GETTY IMAGESMembers of the NRA’s Business Alliance, a separate program for businesses, receive additional benefits and discounts. These include:
FedEx

The shipping giant provides up to a 26 percent discount for NRA Business Alliance members via its FedEx Advantage program. A representative did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
LifeLock

Access to LifeLock Business Solutions, the identity-theft prevention company’s business arm, is listed as a benefit, though no specific discount is specified. A representative for its parent company, Symantec, did not immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday.
Wild Apricot

NRA Business Alliance members are offered a 30-day free trial of the member management company’s website and membership software. A representative told ThinkProgress that the company offers anyone a 30-day free trial and “has absolutely no affiliation or partnership with the NRA,” but did not explain why the NRA is advertising the trial to members. In 2013, Wild Apricot told ThinkProgress that the company permits any lawful group to receive a commission if they sign up as affiliate partners and they “do not pay any fee to the NRA, and their affiliates do not receive any discount on our software.”

First National Bank of Omaha

The Nebraska-based bank issues the “official credit card of the NRA.” One version of the Visa card offers five percent back on gas and sporting goods store purchases, while another offers a low intro APR. Both cards offer a $40 bonus, “enough to reimburse your one-year NRA membership!” The site also boasts that the card ensures “legislative action in support of your Second Amendment Rights,” “public education and awareness about the facts of gun ownership,” and “training and safety programs for individuals, families, and the military.”
On Wednesday, less than 24 hours after ThinkProgress first reported the bank’s connection to the NRA, the website advertising the card disappeared. A representative for the bank did not respond to requests for comment.
On Thursday, the bank tweeted that after massive customer feedback, it had decided not to renew its contract with the NRA to issue the card.



First National Bank dumps NRA, will no longer issue NRA Visa card



Enterprise, Alamo and National

The major car rental conglomerate which operates three prominent national brands said Thursday it’s ending its corporate relationship with the NRA.
Enterprise Holdings, which operates Enterprise, Alamo and National, had a partnership with the NRA to provide discounts to members once they paid their $40 annual fee annual fee. On February 22, however, all three brands announced that they would be ending the program on March 26.



Three major car rental companies dump the NRA




The NRA also manages a directory of smaller companies that offer discounts and incentives, allowing members to search by state.
In early 2013, weeks after the Sandy Hook shooting, ThinkProgress published a similar list. Since that time, several companies have discontinued their relationships with the pro-gun group. Following a grassroots pressure campaign led by the global advocacy group Avaaz.org, both Best Western and Wyndham hotels stopped offering an NRA discount.
“We did end our discount with the NRA at the end of last year,” Maire Griffin, Wyndham’s vice president of global communications, told ThinkProgress. “We no longer will offer this discount, period.”
A similar pressure campaign by a coalition of LGBTQ rights groups and gun violence prevention organizations began pressuring FedEx to do the same in 2016, but has not yet had success.
https://thinkprogress.org/corporations-nra-f0d8074f2ca7/

will do some twittering (!) tomm !!


 
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