Gun Control Debate #5

[EuTuCroquet?]

EuTuCroquet, I think I love you!

:blowkiss:

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Thanks, and back atcha!

 

[bluesneakers]

What are they demonstrating against then? Are they hoping the future would-be shooters find some sympathy and decide against shooting up a school?

I'm at work so haven't seen much news as to what these walk outs were all about, but a few photos I've seen the students were holding signs that mostly seemed to blame guns and not the actual persons who have decided to kill innocent kids for no reason.

These students have a voice, and a right to their opinion, and they know what it's like to live in a world where a gunman could enter your school and start shooting. They don't need to be patronized.

Did you see the photos of the shoes?

For too long we have been sacrificing our children in the name of guns.

Who can blame them for wanting to remind us their lives are worth more than a magazine-fed, gas-operated semi-automatic rifle?

 

[kaen]

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the problem that I see is these kids are all being told what to think, and what to say. All students participating in the walk out today probably do not agree with the gun control message that's being put out there. I feel like these kids are being used by the anti-gun people. Elementary age children certainly shouldn't be allowed to participate. They're not old enough to have formed their own political opinions yet, and I'm sure they don't have a complete understanding of our Constitutional rights and why they're so important. It's not fair, in my opinion, to ask these young children to go out and try to help have their rights taken away. High school kids, I don't have as much of a problem with, as they're old enough to think on their own. But still, I see no reason why these protests can't be done AFTER school.

As a school professional, the walk-outs at my building were formulated and orchestrated by students and not the teachers. We have middle schoolers who did walk out today.. In my area the local police were out in force with crossing guards to ensure students walking out were safe. I work in an area with a lot of violence and our school is probably one of the most dependable and safest place for the students, even more so than their neighborhood and home.

I did hear that in Bridgeport CT today at one high school walkout a student leader asked the crowd how many knew someone who had been shot and killed. Apparently, the number was quite high. We can assume that these kids have experienced gun violence earlier than high school and can extrapolate that there is a segment of the elementary school population who would know exactly what this walk out for safety and in memory of the Parkland students/teachers means based on first hand experiences.

Another side note, a group of students in Chicago did a balloon release (bad for the environment, JS) and one balloon was blue for the Chicago officer killed recently. NPR had clips of student speakers from around the country. Pretty moving. I could certainly understand why these kids are feeling called to action.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

It seems students can still be disciplined in the same manner as skipping class. I don't imagine many schools will discipline the kids as long as they do their protest quietly. What they are not allowed to do is disrupt the kids that remain in class.

http://www.katc.com/story/37679452/lpss-issues-statement-on-cancellation-of-voluntary-walkout

Plans for coordinated student walkouts have been making national news and have already engendered disciplinary threats from some school administrators. Since the law in virtually all jurisdictions requires students to go to school, schools can typically discipline students for missing class, even if they’re doing so to participate in a protest or otherwise express themselves. But what the school can’t do is discipline students more harshly because they are walking out to express a political view or because school administrators don’t support the views behind the protest. In other words, any disciplinary action for walking out cannot be a response to the content of the protest.

Right. No arguments here!

They aren’t breaking the law; they are exercising their first amendment right to free speech, and doing so peaceably.

 

[bluesneakers]

Nickelodeon went off the air for 17 minutes at the time of the national walkout

From 10 a.m. until 10:17 a.m. Nickelodeon broadcasted one simple message. The screen read:

"In support of kids leading the way today, Nickelodeon will be off the air until 17 minutes past the hour."

 

[flourish]

As a school professional, the walk-outs at my building were formulated and orchestrated by students and not the teachers. We have middle schoolers who did walk out today.. In my area the local police were out in force with crossing guards to ensure students walking out were safe. I work in an area with a lot of violence and our school is probably one of the most dependable and safest place for the students, even more so than their neighborhood and home.

I did hear that in Bridgeport CT today at one high school walkout a student leader asked the crowd how many knew someone who had been shot and killed. Apparently, the number was quite high. We can assume that these kids have experienced gun violence earlier than high school and can extrapolate that there is a segment of the elementary school population who would know exactly what this walk out for safety and in memory of the Parkland students/teachers means based on first hand experiences.

Another side note, a group of students in Chicago did a balloon release (bad for the environment, JS) and one balloon was blue for the Chicago officer killed recently. NPR had clips of student speakers from around the country. Pretty moving. I could certainly understand why these kids are feeling called to action.

I'm glad you posted--I was hoping you would! It's great to hear from someone who was in a school today.

(This post reminded me of a time about 20 years ago when I almost was kicked out of an Applebee's for freaking out when, at closing, the hostess took a couple dozen balloons and just let them go outside! Then the manager tried to tell me that was the corporate balloon disposal protocol (as if), which corporate was very interested in learning about the next day!)

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

More guns is not the answer, imho.

Locked doors, wasp spray and fear: Teachers describe their classrooms in Parkland's aftermath

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...s-describe-their-classrooms-parklands-n855196

"I grew up a hunter and I'm very comfortable around firearms. No amount of range training and proficiency will prepare me for my high school turning into a war zone." —Penn.

"We practice fire drills once a month, but a lockdown drill once a year. When was the last time you saw a school on fire in the news?" —Fort Worth, Texas

“I think about what I could do to protect my students, while also understanding any number of them could be the shooter." —League City, Texas

"Teachers have stopped asking 'if' it will be their school next, and instead are asking 'when' will their school be next." —Cottage Grove, Minn.

"We conducted a lock down drill which reminded me very much of the old duck and cover nuclear war drills. The look of fear on these kids' faces was heartbreaking." —Los Angeles

 

[kaen]

What are they demonstrating against then? Are they hoping the future would-be shooters find some sympathy and decide against shooting up a school?

I'm at work so haven't seen much news as to what these walk outs were all about, but a few photos I've seen the students were holding signs that mostly seemed to blame guns and not the actual persons who have decided to kill innocent kids for no reason.

I think that differing communities had varied responses and goals for the walk out today. First and foremost, most walkouts included a moment of silence/remembrance of the Parkland slain. Second, I think the focus of the walkouts were region/school specific. I think the focus, as far as I have read in articles and heard on the radio, ranged from concerns about age limit for purchase, need for mental illness supports/treatment, need for money for school security and workable plans for active shooters and, general wish that the "adults" in this country get serious about creating safe environments and get beyond the politics. I would imagine that weight of each item or the focus was more geographically suited to the social/political climate of the region.

If the photos you saw were focused on the guns and not the people, well, it is their right to express their views. I am sure there were places where the rhetoric was more about the people and not on the guns. I am just happy that they are taking this conversation national and seeing that we adults need to act in some form or fashion because hey deserve to feel safe, which I get.

 

[Karinna]

No, you must have missed another post in which I said it doesn't matter what their political message is, it shouldn't be done on school time.

BBM, I would agree with that because when kids are meant to be at school and are present for the day, if anything should happen to any of the students while they are meant to be at school, the school can be held legally accountable for that.
As long as a child is in school it is the school's responsibility for what happens there. All IMO.

 

[kaen]

What they need to be protesting is that the Parkland school shooting should not have even happened, if law enforcement officials had properly done their job. No new laws were needed to prevent that tragedy. Instead they want to place the blame on guns, and the NRA. However, even if I agreed with the message, I still wouldn't agree with it happening while school is in session. Do your protest after school, or on the weekend.

While I agree that there were various failures in the LE agencies that served this community, including federal. That said, I feel compelled to point two things.

We can not expect that shrinking budgets and overloading our LEO with more duties and complex response situations will not hamper the training level and/or ability to assess threats and ensure safety. Very often when we talk about LEO we are talking about the heightened level of awareness/skills/processing speed that caused an officer involved shooting. I will say that I think these professionals are doing a high risk/low pay job that takes it toll on the bodies, minds and souls. Yes, we had failures in this case and others. The answer is more funds for training, thinning out those who are unable to perform the tasks, and provide opportunities to lessen the stress levels (fewer on the street working hours, etc). I feel the same about the military and teachers. In these areas, the job description expands, workload increases, and the situations encountered require critical thinking, alert minds and a skill base that must be expanded.

(For goodness sakes, we have soldiers who have been forever altered by the carnage and stress they experienced who then come home and need to rehabilitate their bodies and minds. One of the first ideas floated by the current administration was taking vets and placing them in this situation---could be a good idea. But, is it fair to say now retrain and serve again in a low paying job with a requirement to be the first one in to an unknown battle situation? Can't do safety on the cheap. Before the president was in office, do you know what he spent on security for his wife, his son and himself, more than 50k a day. LEO and their agencies need to make sustainable wages --so they don't work overtime and they are refreshed and mentally healthy to do the job.)

We can disagree about the laws needed and the personal beliefs about the NRA. That said, our students are asking to feel safe so they can learn at school. What the mechanisms are that will create that optimal learning environment will clearly vary by community. The thing I find most ludicrous about some of the conversations I have read and participated in is the idea that there is not a need for an increased LE presence at schools to provide the optics and the systems to create safety. I am so freaking surprised that there is talk of teachers, etc but what is needed is the same kind of security that is present at airports, court buildings, state buildings and almost any high rise in large cities. It is mind boggling to me that the most straightforward (albeit, costly) solution is one that just can't be implemented. These kids are our future.

 

[kaen]

I'm glad you posted--I was hoping you would! It's great to hear from someone who was in a school today.

(This post reminded me of a time about 20 years ago when I almost was kicked out of an Applebee's for freaking out when, at closing, the hostess took a couple dozen balloons and just let them go outside! Then the manager tried to tell me that was the corporate balloon disposal protocol (as if), which corporate was very interested in learning about the next day!)

Thanks! I get all "pissy" about the balloon releases for any occasion.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

BBM, I would agree with that because when kids are meant to be at school and are present for the day, if anything should happen to any of the students while they are meant to be at school, the school can be held legally accountable for that.
As long as a child is in school it is the school's responsibility for what happens there. All IMO.

Not quite so if parents sign permission slips.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...CBgoQFggNMAA&usg=AOvVaw14onOqxA3Ozt8Nhv0-1L7m

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...BgoQqQIIFTAC&usg=AOvVaw1KR0a0KQUASPkgE7EgH6yu

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...CBgoQFggcMAU&usg=AOvVaw3AGak2lgN7nD7xFXYFm4rv

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...CBgoQFggfMAY&usg=AOvVaw1VAkvN5TrJbnmC5QqS57wm

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...CBgoQFgglMAg&usg=AOvVaw1NBDO9xSI0E6NDlhHccVx9

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...CBgoQFgguMAs&usg=AOvVaw1v1X8p_SnfE-lsZdav15O-

 

[Jennifer17]

BBM, I would agree with that because when kids are meant to be at school and are present for the day, if anything should happen to any of the students while they are meant to be at school, the school can be held legally accountable for that.
As long as a child is in school it is the school's responsibility for what happens there. All IMO.

Seeing these kids are protesting about things that did happen to kids in schools, I think that that point is moot.

 

[MaryG12]

I’m just thankful that my kids’ school district is not participating in this ridiculous walk out. Schools are for learning. I don’t want my kids wasting their time trying to make a political statement. It’s unbelievable me that any school would allow students to leave class for any kind of protest, no matter what it is. If my kids’ school was going to participate in this, I would have taken the day off work and had my kids stay home. Kids can do all the protesting they want ON THEIR OWN TIME.

I cannot believe my tax dollars are being wasted on this walkout.

 

[bluesneakers]

I cannot believe my tax dollars are being wasted on this walkout.

How much is it costing you?

 

[flourish]

And, really, in the schools where this was an event at the school, it wasn't even a protest, but...a school event! Part of child-centered and directed emergent curriculum!

 

[kaen]

The walk outs were 45 minutes in most schools. Teachers and/or administrators could continue to teach for those who choose not to participate. For many students, this whole situation has been a great opportunity for learning civics and engaging students in understanding the power of their collective and individual voice. Quite frankly, at most schools lunch times (45 min) the waste of time on phones, sneaking phones, sneaking cigarettes, sneaking off campus or walking to local fast food places is way greater than determining your views and speaking out. JMHO.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I cannot believe my tax dollars are being wasted on this walkout.

I do agree our tax dollars can be spent more wisely, but not for the same reason.

I cannot believe my tax dollars are being wasted in cleaning up after yet another mass slaughter caused by yet more preventable gun violence.

❤️

 

[Karinna]

Not quite so if parents sign permission slips.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...CBgoQFggNMAA&usg=AOvVaw14onOqxA3Ozt8Nhv0-1L7m

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...BgoQqQIIFTAC&usg=AOvVaw1KR0a0KQUASPkgE7EgH6yu

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...CBgoQFggcMAU&usg=AOvVaw3AGak2lgN7nD7xFXYFm4rv

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...CBgoQFggfMAY&usg=AOvVaw1VAkvN5TrJbnmC5QqS57wm

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...CBgoQFgglMAg&usg=AOvVaw1NBDO9xSI0E6NDlhHccVx9

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...CBgoQFgguMAs&usg=AOvVaw1v1X8p_SnfE-lsZdav15O-

Yes no problem if parents signed a permission slip for their kids to do so.

 

[flourish]

How much is it costing you?

I can't believe my tax dollars go for kids to play sports. I don't even like football!