Gun Control Debate #6

[Karinna]

Post #163

Oh wow, how unconscionable.

 

[ohreally]

CBS news is reporting the crowd size at the March in DC has been vastly overestimated. They are estimating it was closer to 200,000 at the March. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/march-...e-estimated-200000-people-attended-d-c-march/
The March organizers are the ones that estimated over 800,000. They must be very disappointed the professional crowd estimate numbers are coming in. Vastly overestimating the crowd size may fool some, but Congress is not going to be fooled and change laws based on inaccurate numbers.
IMO this movement has been misdirected. Going after gun control as thier major platform weekend thier message. If they had included in thier message mental health, and getting illegal guns off the streets I believe they would have a lot more support.

Putting in more laws to restrict gun ownership by those that own them legally does not do anything to get rid of the illegal guns and those that own them illegally.
A movement I can get behind is one that first does something about getting the illegal guns off the street, and better mental health. All just my opinion.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Violence anywhere in the world is the problem. To get to the root of the problem requires looking within ourselves to see why we are violent at all. The war within people, (violence) is projected externally onto other human beings, and the world.
We are the world. And yes, Americans do participate in the slaughter called war elsewhere as well as on their own turf. It is no different. As i said why are we violent at all? Why do we even entertain the notion. If people were peaceful we would have a peaceful society, but we don't have that at all.

Do you think the only solution to stop gun violence in the USA is to end war abroad? Absolutely no no no other solution? And do you think that if there were no more wars abroad the gun violence in the USA would end?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Rick Santorum..Instead of calling for gun laws,kids should take CPR classes.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/25/politics/rick-santorum-guns-cnntv/index.html

"How about kids instead of looking to someone else to solve their problem, do something about maybe taking CPR classes or trying to deal with situations that when there is a violent shooter that you can actually respond to that," Santorum said on CNN's "State of the Union."

TRUTH:

‘Mr. Santorum. CPR doesn’t work if all the blood is on the ground’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-learning-cpr-wont-save-mass-shooting-victims

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Oh wow, how unconscionable.

Unconscionable how? Please explain.

 

[Karinna]

Do you think the only solution to stop gun violence in the USA is to end war abroad? Absolutely no no no other solution? And do you think that if there were no more wars abroad the gun violence in the USA would end?

It is all one & the same. It is all violence. It is the responsibility of each and every adult to look inside themselves and see what it is they stand for exactly. Is it love or is it hate? The two don't go together. War is organized mass slaughter, and gun violence can also be organized mass slaughter as you can see with the school shootings etc. They are not really that different, only the number of people that die varies.
The problem is really violence and why people choose it over love & understanding? Why have we as a collective never solved these problems, in America and abroad?

 

[Karinna]

Unconscionable how? Please explain.

My reply was to a previous poster that posted up the article upthread about kids learning CPR.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

It is all one & the same. It is all violence. It is the responsibility of each and every adult to look inside themselves and see what it is they stand for exactly. Is it love or is it hate? The two don't go together. War is organized mass slaughter, and gun violence can also be organized mass slaughter as you can see with the school shootings etc. They are not really that different, only the number of people that die varies.
The problem is really violence and why people choose it over love & understanding? Why have we as a collective never solved these problems, in America and abroad?

BBM

Most countries have a significantly smaller gun problem and yet live in the same world. Why is that? What is the difference between the US and UK or Australia?

 

[Karinna]

BBM

Most countries have a significantly smaller gun problem and yet live in the same world. Why is that? What is the difference between the US and UK or Australia?

Well here is an article from Australia from 2016
(quote)
Data from the Australian Institute of Criminology shows the rate of homicide victims dying from a gunshot wound has dropped since the reforms came into force, but not consistently in every year.

ABS data indicates the rate of assault by firearm causing death has also declined since the reforms, but not in every year.

Data from the ABS also indicates the rate of suicide by firearm fell by 67 per cent from 2.1 deaths per 100,000 of the population in 1996 to 0.7 deaths in 2014.

However, experts consulted by Fact Check said the impact of Mr Howard's reforms on those declines is debatable.

Some research argues the reforms did not significantly influence firearm homicide rates or already falling rates of firearm suicide.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-...-and-suicides-john-howard-port-arthur/7254880

I will have to see what i can find about it in the U.K.

 

[Karinna]

Here is an article on England & Wales
(quote)

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

Rise in knife and gun crime brings decade of downward trend in murder rates to an end
The number of homicides in England and Wales rose by 71 to 574 in the 12 months to September 2015 - an increase of 14% fuelled by rises in knife and gun crime, official statistics show.

The rise in the number of homicides brings to an end a decade in which the murder rate in England and Wales has been falling despite the continued growth in the population.

The quarterly crime figures published by the Office for National Statistics show a 6% increase in overall crime to 4.3 million offences as recorded by the police in the 12 months to September alongside an apparent 6% fall as measured by the separate crime survey of England and Wales. The ONS said the 6% fall was not statistically significant compared with the previous year’s estimate.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/21/england-wales-homicides-rise-knife-gun-crime

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Well here is an article from Australia from 2016
(quote)
Data from the Australian Institute of Criminology shows the rate of homicide victims dying from a gunshot wound has dropped since the reforms came into force, but not consistently in every year.

ABS data indicates the rate of assault by firearm causing death has also declined since the reforms, but not in every year.

Data from the ABS also indicates the rate of suicide by firearm fell by 67 per cent from 2.1 deaths per 100,000 of the population in 1996 to 0.7 deaths in 2014.

However, experts consulted by Fact Check said the impact of Mr Howard's reforms on those declines is debatable.

Some research argues the reforms did not significantly influence firearm homicide rates or already falling rates of firearm suicide.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-...-and-suicides-john-howard-port-arthur/7254880

I will have to see what i can find about it in the U.K.

This should help you:
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

Gun homicide rates are 25.2 higher in the US than in other high-income countries

What is the difference between the US and similar countries?

 

[Woodland]

Linking an overview on how the march came about on the 24th - who helped, who did what, why it grew etc -

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/us/march-for-our-lives/index.html

Imo, the students are speaking on guns at the moment and the problems associated with the US attitude towards them. That's what they are addressing - they are not trying to fix all the social ills of the US and other parts of the world.

The pictures of the various marches, regardless of how many one thinks are participating, show current and future voters. Voters that want better regulations for guns in the US. That's it - the guns for the moment.

This does not stop others from actively seeking ways to fix the many social ills of the world. Maybe the future voters will get to that in due course, but for now they want the guns under control so they can reach voting age and/or have the education/experience required to take on other matters.

Bringing others matters into the current issue will not change the focus for students and others on gun control.

All jmo.

 

[Karinna]

This should help you:
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html



What is the difference between the US and similar countries?

For starters the U.K. has some 58 million people, and Australia around 30 million. The U.S. has around 320 million people. Do you think that could be part of the difference?
Because from what i posted up the other day in an article i found interesting, even though there are millions of guns around in the U.S., there are really not that many gun owners as i would have thought, and found that quite surprising.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Here is an article on England & Wales
(quote)

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

Rise in knife and gun crime brings decade of downward trend in murder rates to an end
The number of homicides in England and Wales rose by 71 to 574 in the 12 months to September 2015 - an increase of 14% fuelled by rises in knife and gun crime, official statistics show.

The rise in the number of homicides brings to an end a decade in which the murder rate in England and Wales has been falling despite the continued growth in the population.

The quarterly crime figures published by the Office for National Statistics show a 6% increase in overall crime to 4.3 million offences as recorded by the police in the 12 months to September alongside an apparent 6% fall as measured by the separate crime survey of England and Wales. The ONS said the 6% fall was not statistically significant compared with the previous year’s estimate.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/21/england-wales-homicides-rise-knife-gun-crime

Again:

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/a...ics/index.html

Gun homicide rates are 25.2 higher in the US than in other high-income countries

What is the difference between the US and similar countries?

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

For starters the U.K. has some 58 million people, and Australia around 30 million. The U.S. has around 320 million people. Do you think that could be part of the difference?
Because from what i posted up the other day in an article i found interesting, even though there are millions of guns around in the U.S., there are really not that many gun owners as i would have thought, and found that quite surprising.

In case you're serious, the statistics are per million people, not per country.

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns
Despite steep declines in violent crimes, an estimated 70 million firearms were added to American arsenals the past two decades, according to a new landmark study on gun ownership.

Overall, Americans own an estimated 265 million guns – more than one gun for every American adult, according to the study by researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities. Half of those guns – 133 million – were in the hands of just 3% of American adults, so-called “super owners” who possessed an average of 17 guns each, it showed.

The survey, the most authoritative since a 1994 study posed similar questions to gun owners, is under peer-review for publication in a trade journal. Summaries of the study were released this week to the Guardian and The Trace news outlets.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/09/22/study-guns-owners-violence/90858752/

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

(quote)
3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns
Despite steep declines in violent crimes, an estimated 70 million firearms were added to American arsenals the past two decades, according to a new landmark study on gun ownership.

Overall, Americans own an estimated 265 million guns – more than one gun for every American adult, according to the study by researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities. Half of those guns – 133 million – were in the hands of just 3% of American adults, so-called “super owners” who possessed an average of 17 guns each, it showed.

The survey, the most authoritative since a 1994 study posed similar questions to gun owners, is under peer-review for publication in a trade journal. Summaries of the study were released this week to the Guardian and The Trace news outlets.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/09/22/study-guns-owners-violence/90858752/

.... and:

Gun homicide rates are 25.2 higher in the US than in other high-income countries

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

 

[Woodland]

(quote)
3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns
Despite steep declines in violent crimes, an estimated 70 million firearms were added to American arsenals the past two decades, according to a new landmark study on gun ownership.

Overall, Americans own an estimated 265 million guns – more than one gun for every American adult, according to the study by researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities. Half of those guns – 133 million – were in the hands of just 3% of American adults, so-called “super owners” who possessed an average of 17 guns each, it showed.

The survey, the most authoritative since a 1994 study posed similar questions to gun owners, is under peer-review for publication in a trade journal. Summaries of the study were released this week to the Guardian and The Trace news outlets.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/09/22/study-guns-owners-violence/90858752/

Have been skeptical of the numbers being quoted in this link and other places since I first saw mention of a study a short while ago. The study is under review and not available at the moment, so unable to take the snippets released at face value. Jmo.

 

[Karinna]

.... and:



https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

And also from your article you posted
(quote)
Globally, the US sees fewer gun-related murders than many of its southern neighbors.
According to the Small Arms Survey, El Salvador is currently home to the most gun-related murders in the world (excluding active war-zones) with guns killing more than 90 people for every 100,000 of population.
From 2010-2015, Honduras saw the highest averages of gun-related homicides, with guns killing 67 out of every 100,000 people there.
Venezuela and El Salvador are close behind over the same five-year period, with 52 and 49 gun-related deaths, respectively, for every 100,000 of population.
The US rate over that period is 4.5 gun-related homicides per 100,000 people.

 

[Karinna]

Have been skeptical of the numbers being quoted in this link and other places since I first saw mention of a study a short while ago. The study is under review and not available at the moment, so unable to take the snippets released at face value. Jmo.

Have you found any other information that you think is more accurate? There are variables in the different stats. that are posted online that i have found.