Gun Control Debate #6

[human]

Vets' History: Operation "Dewey Canyon III"

By VVAW

In April of 1971 the war was raging in Indochina. The vast majority of American were sick and tired of it and wanted the war to end. Thousands and thousands were actively demonstrating their opposition to the war as the US government was losing more and more support for its Vietnam policies.

Soldiers in Vietnam were refusing to go on combat missions. At home, veterans formed a national organization, Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). It was in April of 1971 that VVAW held its first national demonstration to protest the war in Vietnam. The demonstration was named "Operation Dewey Canyon III" (Dewey Canyon I and II were secret operations into Laos that were never reported to the American people). It was held in Washington DC from April 18th to April 23rd, and was the most powerful antiwar demonstration held up to that time; it sparked off a series of major demonstrations that made it clear that the American people wanted the US out of Indochina.

From Vietnam Veterans Against the War, http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=1656


---

BBM: Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) 1971. --A defining moment in a long, ten year battle of war abroad and major resistance at home.

Much has been written in reflection but if you look at the politics, at all the social change, this country elected the conservative Nixon overwhelmingly.

So, while our youth gathering by the millions in demonstration across America is surely not pointless (as some have said) because whether or not it emboldens a new electorate, emboldens change, remains to be seen, but a word of caution because it also emboldens everyone on two sides of an issue.

The advantage of youth is spirit, the advantage of age is patience. The complexity of addressing gun violence vs the second amendment in America is going to require both. And 'government moves like an ocean liner, not a speedboat', to quote a wise former president.

Are kids in it for the long haul? They appear very focused. And their loss is personal. What is spectacular is their movement, moved the Florida legislature, moved corporations, brought it to the national stage, and put politicians invested in one lobby on notice. They've done more in two months than at anytime since the assault weapon ban was quietly expired in 2004. -jmo

Kids understand body bags

 

[Karinna]

Rsff

Yes, many more die from gun violence than, say, stabbings.

Because people disagree. If we all agreed on everything, we wouldn’t be individuals with free will.

Having a lethal weapon handy just increases the odds that a disagreement will turn into violence.

MOO

What was NC's disagreement to plan out and execute the school shooting?

 

[human]

What was NC's disagreement to plan out and execute the school shooting?

No issues with anyone ? Happy days ? He plans on going target shooting but changes his mind to use students instead of paper targets? He did not see the school as causing issues for him?

 

[Karinna]

CPR won’t save a classmate that’s bled out. Or who has an exploded lung or liver caused by gunfire from a semiauto military-style rifle.

Entire trauma teams are needed. This isn’t a video game we’re talking about.

IMO

Well i think that would be obvious, and the person that made that comment about the kids being better off knowing CPR is ridiculous when it comes to school shootings.
But i agree, it is always good to know how to perform CPR in any other case where it is applicable.

 

[Karinna]

No issues with anyone ? Happy days ? He plans on going target shooting but changes his mind to use students instead of paper targets? He did not see the school as causing issues for him?

He had mass murder in mind but why? What was his real issue? The fact he was mentally ill or was something else the trigger for it? Will we ever really know? No one in their right thinking mind would do such a thing.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...tal-jesse-hughes-march-for-our-lives-bataclan

[FONT=&amp]Bataclan survivor Jesse Hughes calls March for Our Lives 'pathetic'

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The Eagles of Death Metal frontman also compared handing in guns to prevent gun violence to men dismembering themselves to end rape, and accused Parkland shooting survivor Emma González of treason[/FONT]

Pathetic indeed. Him.

[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]

 

[Blef]

Yes, i get what he & others are doing, but his delivery would be offensive to people of an older generation was the point i was making.

So? He was addressing his peers, not adults

 

[Woodland]

Retired Justice Stevens argues for repeal of Second Amendment

Retired Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens believes the students and demonstrators who protested this past weekend for gun control should seek a repeal of the Second Amendment.

"A concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment," Stevens wrote an op-ed published in The New York Times Tuesday, adding, "today that concern is a relic of the 18th century."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/politics/john-paul-stevens-second-amendment/index.html

 

[Karinna]

So? He was addressing his peers, not adults

I know that. Still disrespectful IMO. I don't expect anyone to agree, it's just my opinion, and how i was raised to respect my elders. But i guess some people don't get that.

 

[Blef]

I know that. Still disrespectful IMO. I don't expect anyone to agree, it's just my opinion, and how i was raised to respect my elders. But i guess some people don't get that.

Yet I find you calling him an opinionated **** much more disrespectful. YES he has an opinion because he survived a school shooting, and respecting people who have failed to act to protect you, why should he? I find your lack of respect for a school shooting survivor who is addressing his peers and in a way that they can further connect to his message just laughable. Elders don't just deserve respect, they need to earn it too, and there are a lot of kids in the US who obviously feel let down by their elders for not ensuring gun control and safety were paramount.​

 

[Karinna]

Yet I find you calling him an opinionated **** much more disrespectful. YES he has an opinion because he survived a school shooting, and respecting people who have failed to act to protect you, why should he? I find your lack of respect for a school shooting survivor who is addressing his peers and in a way that they can further connect to his message just laughable. Elders don't just deserve respect, they need to earn it too, and there are a lot of kids in the US who obviously feel let down by their elders for not ensuring gun control and safety were paramount.​

And you are entitled to your opinion as i am mine. I called him a disrespectful opinionated little s***. He also wasn't the only one at the school affected by what happened, but he is the only one i have heard speak that way.

 

[Blef]

And you are entitled to your opinion as i am mine. I called him a disrespectful opinionated little s***. He also wasn't the only one at the school affected by what happened, but he is the only one i have heard speak that way.

17 year old angry and swears about it! Shock horror, lets get the smelling salts out!

17 killed in a school shooting! "DON'T BLAME GUNS!"

Hmmmmm, I'd rather he wasn't needing to address his peers this way, but I'm much more outraged at dead children in school halls, than a 17 year old swearing tbh.

 

[Karinna]

It's a bit odd though that the anger is so directed at the adults when it was a 19 year old that did the shooting at the school.
Kids shooting other kids. What's wrong with this picture?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

These kids, IMO, are being horribly exploited and encouraged in a very predatory and misguided way as they process a horrific tragedy by one of their own former classmates.

This new found activism isn't "therapy", but profound denial and a sick exploitation of what the REAL problems are that produced the circumstances for their former classmate to conduct a mass shooting. The adults in their lives, IMO, have failed them miserably. They think they are acting with "laser focus" on what the real problems are, but can't see the forest for the trees.

The adults, the administrators, the governmental authorities, ALL FAILED THESE KIDS with their idiotic leniency and intentional shielding of Nick Cruz. The ADULTS and AUTHORITIES with their negligence and appalling deflection killed the 17 students and teachers at Stoneman Douglas. The gun was just the tool in the hands of an out of control psychopath, who no adult had the balls to confront, remove, and restrain, because of horrifically misguided lenient policies.

None of these deeply misguided teens and activists seem to realize that the weapons that needs to be controlled are the profoundly disturbed STUDENTS and ex-students (like NC) who conduct these awful rampages in schools.

There are no boogymen hiding in the bushes trying to break into schools to shoot kids-- in case after case after case, it is a STUDENT or a FORMER STUDENT that perpetrates these unspeakable atrocities. "Security theater" doesn't fix the problem. More metal detectors doesn't fix the problem. More armed security guards doesn't fix the problem. "Gun control" doesn't fix the problem.

Dealing properly and assertively with disturbed, dangerous students WILL improve the situation.

Stronger doors, more entry buzzers, and stronger glass at the office doors won't stop a determined student shooter.

We HAVE to start calling them STUDENT SHOOTERS to really begin to understand the warped psychology behind what is going on, and get to the root of the problem, to STOP the mayhem.

"Gun control" is just NOT the problem. It is nothing but a huge distraction.


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._stay_out_of_gun_debate_hes_an_extremist.html

BBM.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...g_children_into_moral_authorities_136584.html

It’s a sad state when our adults fail to be the moral authority our children need, making them the ones who show us the way.

I very strongly disagree with you.

 

[Karinna]

17 year old angry and swears about it! Shock horror, lets get the smelling salts out!

17 killed in a school shooting! "DON'T BLAME GUNS!"

Hmmmmm, I'd rather he wasn't needing to address his peers this way, but I'm much more outraged at dead children in school halls, than a 17 year old swearing tbh.

Yeah in a perfect world, we can only wish. The 19 yr. old that perpetrated the act was mentally deranged. Mental illness was part of the problem too. If someone is mentally deranged and hearing voices that tell them to go shoot up a school full of kids, and how to do it, then guess what? Where there is a will there will be a way to do it. If not guns, maybe next it will be home made bombs? Isn't that what happened in Boston? Pressure cooker bombs? Or some other home made weapons that will exact lots of damage?

 

[bluesneakers]

It's a bit odd though that the anger is so directed at the adults when it was a 19 year old that did the shooting at the school.
Kids shooting other kids. What's wrong with this picture?

Adults aren't doing enough to protect kids from gun violence.

That's what's wrong with this picture.

 

[Karinna]

Adults aren't doing enough to protect kids from gun violence.

That's what's wrong with this picture.

Yes in this case i agree. All the warning signs, red flags were there that NC was just an accident waiting to happen. Did anyone really take him seriously when the writing was on the wall beforehand?

 

[bluesneakers]

Yes in this case i agree. All the warning signs, red flags were there that NC was just an accident waiting to happen. Did anyone really take him seriously when the writing was on the wall beforehand?

Not just in case.

Of the 49 months since January 2014, only six have passed without at least one instance of gun violence in a US school.

Between 2014 and 2017, 56,755 Americans were killed by guns, including 2,710 children under the age of 12.

The 17 victims shot dead yesterday at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, brings the total number of fatalities in American schools in the first six weeks of 2018 to 23.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/91679/us-gun-violence-in-six-chilling-statistics

Nevermind how many of their parents are lost to gun violence every year. We are failing them.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

It's a bit odd though that the anger is so directed at the adults when it was a 19 year old that did the shooting at the school.
Kids shooting other kids. What's wrong with this picture?

BBM

Not only kids. Toddlers, kids, teens, young adults, adults, pensioners shoot and maim and kill. It happened last week in my country. It was a 25 yo terrorist. It happens every day in your country. What is the difference?

 

[Blef]

It's a bit odd though that the anger is so directed at the adults when it was a 19 year old that did the shooting at the school.
Kids shooting other kids. What's wrong with this picture?

You are missing their point entirely. They are angry at adults who have done nothing to act to make gun control tighter.