Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #6

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

More re Baldwin & Firearm Safety Training (Lack of) on Rust Set
from the Probable Cause Statement.
Adding to my post made about 15 min ago.

From last paragraph on page 4:
"Evidence shows BALDWIN failed to appear for mandatory firearms training and firearms safety training prior to filming."

Hang on, how can mandatory safety training be conducted by someone who is apparently *allegedly* incompetent, inexperienced, and unqualified?

Maybe AB made that same point himself one wonders?

 

[Marantz4250b]

Not really... it's a movie set with blanks.

And dummy rounds!

It's a movie set with real firearms.

If it's that safe then why even bother checking ever?

There won't ever be any live ammo about. Right?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That's it exactly! Where did those live rounds come from and why were live rounds loaded into a gun that most people likely knew AB would not be checking because they'd be familiar with his past habits on set. Just days before, many actors walked off due to having issues with the production. Disgruntled people do disgruntled things sometimes. The root of the matter needs an explanation, not just the outcome. It's like putting a bandage on a cut without considering what caused the cut. MOO.

This is why I think it really could be a murder! And not one that AB planned or knew about.

 

[zucchinibread]

And dummy rounds!

It's a movie set with real firearms.

If it's that safe then why even bother checking ever?

There won't ever be any live ammo about. Right?

No one said blanks are safe. They're not. That's why there's an armorer.

 

[housewife]

The texts she sent (and that the propmistress sent) show that they were kept from doing their job by higher ups. That's the reason most of the camera crew walked off that day. It's in the long police document.

At least, that's what the two women were complaining/texting about. Hannah was hired as a full time armorer, then reduced to half time. Payroll records support that as well. Whose actual decision it was isn't clear, but the person processing that payroll change was yet another crew member (whose name is in the police documents). As with many independent films, it's not clear from payroll documents who was actually in charge or "managing" the situation.

George Clooney agrees with you, FWIW:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/entertainment/george-clooney-rust-shooting/index.html

IMO.

All good actors listen and heed the armorer.
Good job, George. You get a cookie.
(For clarification, George described following the armorer's rules on set for ensuring safety. George himself is not a firearm expert, which is why he listens to the expert. George was taught how to check his prop WITH the armorer present.)

Even being reduced to "half-time", the armorer role is goal-oriented. You still have to accomplish a safe set no matter what. If it's not possible, you don't take the job.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Hang on, how can mandatory safety training be conducted by someone who is apparently *allegedly* incompetent, inexperienced, and unqualified?

Maybe AB made that same point himself one wonders?

If she was incompetent and unqualified then she shouldn't have been there.

I am not of the opinion that she particularly incompetent from her police and podcast interviews. Inexperienced, most certainly, but anyone in any profession was inexperienced once.

From her talking on the podcast she comes over as actually rather safety conscious in the sense that she was nervous about certain aspects of the job. That's not necessarily a bad thing - fear is what keeps you alive. I'd be more concerned if she come over as knowing it all, tbh, which she never has done.

To me she doesn't come over as incompetent or blasé about her job. I do think it was perhaps too much for her, though.

 

[RANCH]

A killing which occurs under any of the following circumstances is involuntary manslaughter:

While acting in a reckless manner which may cause the death or another person.

reckless​

marked by lack of proper caution : careless of consequences

I feel that both HGR and AB acted in a reckless manner which resulted in Halyna Hutchins death.

New Mexico Involuntary Manslaughter Law - FindLaw.com

In New Mexico, manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. In contrast, murder is the killing of another human being through a willful, deliberate, and premeditated act. The crime of manslaughter is divided between voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.

www.findlaw.com

Definition of RECKLESS

marked by lack of proper caution : careless of consequences; irresponsible… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[PrairieWind]

I'm sure that's correct. If they thought it happened then they would have asked her and from her interview videos I don't think they ever did.

The thing that points against it is that live rounds were found in a variety of places, some were in gun belts, some on carts and suchlike. I'd wonder how they because so well distributed over quite a short time period of maybe a few days.

Interesting reading on the background of HGR! Methinks she was a disaster waiting to happen.

She may well be, but I can't imagine how her ex-bf's death would be relevant in this case. I wonder if the prosecutor had made some indication about intending to raise it at trial? This just seems odd.

 

[fridaybaker]

The prosecutor is hoping to make the case that she exhibited a pattern of carelessness. Something about giving her boyfriend keys to the bike while he was drunk. Also, there was an incident where she brought a weapon into a bar, which is always prohibited, for obvious reasons. There may be others. I also remember something about there being target practice on the set -after work or something. Anyway, I'm not sure, but that's what I think to be the prosecutors' MO.

 

[al66pine]

Industry Standards: Safety w Firearms? State Regulations.

I work in entertainment (theatre, tv, film) and I think...

snipped for focus @zucchinibread
Your experience may be of particular relevance.

Are you familiar w this ---
"Industry Wide Labor-Management Safety Committee’s “Safety Bulletin #1, Recommendations for Safety with Firearms and Use of Blank Ammunition.”
In this NM REGULATORY ACTION, those are the applicable firearms safety principles. In this post, I'm not speaking ATM to safety standards applicable in the criminal cases or civil cases.

In your "entertainment (theatre, tv, film)" employment, were your employers subject to ^those specific firearms safety recommendations^? Or not?
From your descriptions of experience, IIUC, it seems they did not comply w them. So I'm curious about what the specific firearm guidelines are. Are they available online?

Sometimes employment experience varies widely from industry policy & state administrative agency regulations.

imo ime

 

[PrairieWind]

The prosecutor is hoping to make the case that she exhibited a pattern of carelessness. Something about giving her boyfriend keys to the bike while he was drunk. Also, there was an incident where she brought a weapon into a bar, which is always prohibited, for obvious reasons. There may be others. I also remember something about there being target practice on the set -after work or something. Anyway, I'm not sure, but that's what I think to be the prosecutors' MO.

Neither the prior bf death nor the bar incident are going to be admissible in this trial. The allegations of shooting live rounds in off hours could be, if it can be substantiated to have actually happened.

 

[al66pine]

Actors & Firearms?

But you do know they're using props and not shooting guns right?

A post by @Marantz4250b said:
"This IS REAL LIFE!!!
Using a gun on a movie set is still using a gun in real life. The safety rules all still apply."

Not really... it's a movie set with blanks.

@Observe_dont_Absorb
Respectfully IIUC during filming,(many, most, or virtually all or) all the firearms on the set are real, honest to God, operating, operable guns which CAN shoot live ammo injure or KILL human beings.
Thing is - the firearms are not supposed to be loaded w LIVE ammo.
But they can be.
And if they are, w just the twitch of a finger, it can cause injury or death.

On the Rust set, tragically it was both.<--- Not jmo.

 

[al66pine]

dbm

 

[mickey2942]

Hang on, how can mandatory safety training be conducted by someone who is apparently *allegedly* incompetent, inexperienced, and unqualified?

Maybe AB made that same point himself one wonders?

Which goes back to the issue about my opinion that DH and AB had absolutely no respect for the armorer. Because she was a young woman. I doubt that they would have been able to ignore training from an experienced male armorer. Or tell him to put a gun on a table, unsecured, so DH wouldn't have to find her to get it for rehearsal.

It is too bad HG was so star struck by her first armorer job, that she let DH and AB run the the entire show, ignoring her position entirely. And the safety double checks.

What is interesting to me, is that if DH and AB had absolutely followed the safety processes, and Halyna Hutchins had still been shot, 100% of the liability would have been squarely on HG.

 

[Betty P]

The prosecutor is hoping to make the case that she exhibited a pattern of carelessness. Something about giving her boyfriend keys to the bike while he was drunk. Also, there was an incident where she brought a weapon into a bar, which is always prohibited, for obvious reasons. There may be others. I also remember something about there being target practice on the set -after work or something. Anyway, I'm not sure, but that's what I think to be the prosecutors' MO.

That's a little unusual, JMO. The prosecutor is the one trying their case in the news media. Usually its the defense.

 

[Cool Cats]

D

 

[Cool Cats]

Alec Baldwin Looking For ‘Speedy’ ‘Rust’ Trial To ‘Minimize Public Vilification’

Actor Alec Baldwin is facing criminal charges for involuntary manslaughter in connection with the death of “Rust” cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, who was shot and killed on October 21, 2021, while rehearsing a scene for the Western film. A gun that the “30 Rock” actor was holding went off...

www.yahoo.com

Alec Baldwin's Legal Team Asserts His Right To A Speedy Trial​

On Wednesday, attorneys Luke Nikas and Alex Spiro of Quinn Emanuel filed a legal motion asserting Alec Baldwin’s right to a speedy trial, as guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment of the United States Constitution.

The court documents state that the “30 Rock” actor is “entitled to a fair and speedy disposition of the charges to minimize public vilification and suspicion and to avoid the hazards of proving his innocence that often arise after lengthy delays in prosecution.”

They are also asking that the District Attorney “preserve all evidence related to” the “Rust” trial and produce a considerable number of legal documents after he is arraigned or waives arraignment, including statements, books, photographs, papers, documents, physical or mental examinations, scientific tests or experiments, polygraph tests, and a list of witnesses.

The legal filing goes on to state that “Mr. Baldwin reserves the right to call any and all witnesses disclosed by the prosecution of a witness list for trial or hearing in this matter.”

 

[al66pine]

Armorer HG-R. Other Past Negligence?

The prosecutor is hoping to make the case that she exhibited a pattern of carelessness.... Also, there was an incident where she brought a weapon into a bar, which is always prohibited, for obvious reasons....

snipped for focus @fridaybaker
IIRC HG-R was arrested for possessing firearm in a bar in NM.
Likely Santa Fe County.
Sorry I can't find link ATM.

As @PrairieWind posted, evd of her possessing-gun-in-bar, not admissible in criminal trial re Rust case.

If at time of Rust trial, she has been been convicted on possessing-gun-in-bar offense, perhaps a chance of that conviction being admissible in Rust trial, but only for either for impeachment purposes or in sentencing phase, AFAIK. Perhaps, IDK.

@PrairieWind ?

 

[al66pine]

The 8 Firearm Safety Violations NM OSHB Found on Rust...
.... based on the movie/tv "Industry Wide Labor-Management Safety Committee’s “Safety Bulletin #1, Recommendations for Safety with Firearms and Use of Blank Ammunition.”

In this NM REGULATORY ACTION, those are the applicable firearms safety principles. In this post, I'm NOT speaking to safety standards applicable in the criminal cases or civil cases.
The NM OSHB report quoted certain provisions of it and listed eight violations, starting on page 6, ¶ 21.

Industry firearms safety standards do not boil down to --- actors should leave firearm safety up to armorers, so no need to have mutual or monitored handoff of firearms.

Final penalty against the Rust production co. was $136,793.

"a. Bulletin #1: Page 1, The Property Master or Armorer will “work in conjunction with the production’s designated Safety Representative to assure that the following standards are adhered to.”

"b. Bulletin #1: Page 1, “Live ammunition is never to be used nor brought onto any studio lot or stage.”

"c. Bulletin #1: Page 1, “Before any use of a firearm in a rehearsal and/or on-camera sequence or off-camera use, all persons involved must be thoroughly briefed at an on-site SAFETY MEETING where the firearms will be used. This meeting shall include an “on-site walk through” and/or “dry-run” with the Property Master (or …), designated production representative, and anyone that will be using and/or handling a firearm.”

"d. Bulletin #1: Page 1, “No one shall be issued a firearm until he or she is trained in safe handling, safe use, the safety lock, and proper firing procedures. If there are any questions as to the competency of the person who will use the firearm, the Property Master (or…) shall determine if additional training is required;” and Page 3, “9. Ensuring that a sufficient amount of time has been allotted for training and rehearsal.”

"e. Bulletin #1: Page 1, “Additionally, this Bulletin should be attached to the call-sheet- each day firearms will be used.”

"f. Bulletin #1: Page 2, “7. Never lay down a firearm or leave it unattended. Unless actively filming or rehearsing, all firearms should be safely secured.”

"g. Bulletin #1: Page 2, “1. Refrain from pointing a firearm at anyone… If it is absolutely necessary to do so on camera, consult the Property Master / or Armorer or other safety representative, such as the First A.D. / Stage Manager. Remember that any object at which you point a firearm could be destroyed.

"h. Bulletin #1: Page 2, “11…firearms are to be loaded just before they are used in a scene.”

The NM OSHB " Summary of Investigation" recommended a "Willful-Serious citation with penalties be issued" to "Rust Movie Productions, LLC" for "plain indifference to the recognized hazards associated with the use of firearms on set, to which their employees were exposed."

___________________________________
* NM Occupational Health and Safety Bureau "SUMMARY OF INVESTIGATION." https://www.env.nm.gov/occupational...-19-NM-OSHA-Rust-Summary-of-Investigation.pdf

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Which goes back to the issue about my opinion that DH and AB had absolutely no respect for the armorer. Because she was a young woman. I doubt that they would have been able to ignore training from an experienced male armorer. Or tell him to put a gun on a table, unsecured, so DH wouldn't have to find her to get it for rehearsal.

It is too bad HG was so star struck by her first armorer job, that she let DH and AB run the the entire show, ignoring her position entirely. And the safety double checks.

What is interesting to me, is that if DH and AB had absolutely followed the safety processes, and Halyna Hutchins had still been shot, 100% of the liability would have been squarely on HG.

I'd say if they had no respect for the armourer it was for more glaringly obvious reasons and not that she was a woman.

They were probably in a state of 'are you actually effing kidding me'? and one could hardly blame them.

JMO MOO