Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #2

[Piaget]

Same problem with tissue under fingernails - very small quantity to begin with, exposed to the environment, foreign tissue decomposing simultaneously with victim tissue.

My opinion...best chance for foreign DNA would be from semen. Sperm cells are some of the toughest cells in the body - difficult to break down, long-lasting. If the body was still wearing the pants, the pants would have protected a portion of her body from animal activity. This would allow for the possible collection of vaginal/cervical swabs. If she was wearing pants, she may have been wearing underpants which could have semen on them from recent sexual contact. This semen could persist despite the conditions.

Not the same thing I know, but I'm still hoping there's a beer bottle from his car with his prints, her DNA, and a trace of a date rape drug that led to the first charge.

 

[Kaylas]

Dental records would have been sent to Longo's office within ten days of Hannah missing. With parental permission, the dentist can easily send electronic X-rays of the most recent radiofilms.

I assume that the forensic team has been able to compare the records to the teeth.

 

[margarita25]

I think the ID would be obvious from just the remains. A 6' tall female is very unusual and
the bones would make it clear, IMO
^i^

The description of 6ft tall also leads me to believe there was possibly no dismemberment. Yes, height could still be estimated from partial remains (legs, etc), but the quick assessment of this information leads me to believe these remains were fairly intact. jmo

 

[Ixchel13]

Perhaps they are considering everything between there and where the remains were found as potential crime scenes, meaning they might be looking for additional items discarded/clues along the way, so they want to preserve all areas within a certain radius so as to not compromise any evidence. These might include tire tracks, phone, cigarette butts, weapon, clothing, etc etc.

oops i posted something like that before reading your post!

 

[klily444]

On Fox just now, reporter in C'Ville says he was told by police source that they are "looking for clothing and a cell phone"

So maybe could mean there was no shirt found at scene or at JM's house...

Or his crocs and other clothing of his.

 

[Doghairrules]

I keep thinking about how worried JM is about being unclean and his clothes. I don't think he would ride around in soiled clothes and I think his slackness in not burying Hannah may be because of his desire to get clean. When I think of all he's alleged to have done, after he's arrested all he wants to ask the judge about is his clothes? It's almost phobic sounding, hope this makes any sense.

Makes complete sense to me. That's partly why I've wondered in the MH case and now this one whether he raped and killed them elsewhere. I can't see him making himself uncomfortable. Of course I have no idea where the somewhere else would be.

 

[cluciano63]

Do they really take tips in order called in?
When I worked a tip line we sorted them daily and they were evaluated by LE and moved up accordingly.
Jmo but a site like the one where the remains were found sounds much like Morgan, and seems like it would have warranted a search sooner.

Jmo

 

[Justice101]

The description of 6ft tall leads me to believe there was possibly no dismemberment. Yes, height could still be estimated from partial remains (legs, etc), but the quick of this information leads me to believe these remains were fairly intact.

I would think it would be very hard to tell how tall the person is based on just a skeleton laying down. Male or female, of course..but height?

 

[Justice101]

No. There is someone in charge of prioritizing what they get each day.... if they get a serious tip that counts one way, if they get multiple tips on the same sort of thing in the same location, that is ranked high up to.

Eventually, they address ALL TIPS.

 

[cluciano63]

Not that it does confirm its her, but Coy put out in his latest article that the body had long black tight pants on. And we've all seen pictures of what Hannah was wearing that night.

It's not confirmation, like I said, but it sure goes a long way to suggest it's her.

Personally, there is no doubt in my mind it's her.

MOO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have the link where he says pants were on body?

 

[perfectingpink]

I know, it seems retrospectively (assuming JM is guilty) so obvious doesn't it? It's hard to understand how all of these little things didn't add up to LE. But then I remember that hindsight is 20/20.

Also, I do think JM was on LE's radar to some extent. Maybe not specifically for the murder of MH, but he was "known to police" was what I believe Longo stated in one of his earlier pressers. Known for what exactly I can't be sure. "Just" the car issues, the altercation with the man he took to the hospital, the argument at the car shop, etc. etc? Don't know. But they did not seem surprised IMO to lock in on this guy in HG's case.

JMO of course.

I never would have guessed my cousin was a killer, however once he was implicated I was not surprised at all. I believe this is what happened with LE. I wish I could better put into words what I mean here.

 

[ILOKAL]

I had not heard that - I had a feeling there was someone else other than LH who had noticed and called the tip in. Could you supply a link to that information? Thanks!

Other than the fact that the Sargent who found the remains, in his interview, says he was compelled to keep searching, I had read earlier that a tip is was brought them to that road to begin with. Sergeant Terry was about to complete his team's efforts there until he persisted in checking more properties IIRC.

There's a link to the original article (by Coy Barefoot) within this article:
http://lynnrmitchell.wordpress.com/

 

[zer0pointe]

I'm still waiting for something that confirms Coy Barefoot's location near the Ammonettt Branch Creek.

https://twitter.com/coybarefoot: here ya go - feel free to ask him yourself. Hope this helps.

 

[Ralph]

Dental records would have been sent to Longo's office within ten days of Hannah missing. With parental permission, the dentist can easily send electronic X-rays of the most recent radiofilms.

I assume that the forensic team has been able to compare the records to the teeth.

The OCME is responsible for making the identification - law enforcement has nothing to do with it. OCME will have an odontologist they work with that will compare dental records to the remains. If for some reason, the teeth were not intact (many times the lower jaw is removed and scattered due to animal activity) or if there just isn't enough dental work to compare (remember this is possibly an 18 year old), they may try fingerprints but with decomposition, fingerprints aren't an easy way of identification and they also require that she has known prints on file.

DNA will be done regardless in order to get a known DNA profile from her to use to compare to other forensic evidence already collected and to be collected in the future. The easiest way, at this point, may be just to develop a DNA profile from a bone or piece of tissue, compare it to her parents (which hopefully are her biological parents) and then, the ME will have an ID. The DNA testing may take a day or two depending on the quality of the samples and whether or not results are obtained on the 1st try or if multiple attempts with different samples must be attempted.

 

[margarita25]

I would think it would be very hard to tell how tall the person is based on just a skeleton laying down. Male or female, of course..but height?

Why not? If the skeleton is intact, it would be a simple matter of a measuring tape, or even estimation. I can estimate the difference between 5 feet and 6 feet fairly easily. Now, with that being said, I've seen these types of descriptions be off in other cases, for example, in Apache Lake, the remains found in a tote box which were described by the person who found them as possibly belonging to a small child, yet they were those of an adult. In addition, I would think if anything, approx body length would appear minimized (folding, twisting, decomp, etc).

In addition, re: bone analysis, a lot can be determined including gender (width of hips), age (length of bones), etc etc. I don't think the height assessment was determined upon this type of analysis, though, as the autospy has not been completed/results released. jmo

 

[Whiteorchids]

The OCME is responsible for making the identification - law enforcement has nothing to do with it. OCME will have an odontologist they work with that will compare dental records to the remains. If for some reason, the teeth were not intact (many times the lower jaw is removed and scattered due to animal activity) or if there just isn't enough dental work to compare (remember this is possibly an 18 year old), they may try fingerprints but with decomposition, fingerprints aren't an easy way of identification and they also require that she has known prints on file.

DNA will be done regardless in order to get a known DNA profile from her to use to compare to other forensic evidence already collected and to be collected in the future. The easiest way, at this point, may be just to develop a DNA profile from a bone or piece of tissue, compare it to her parents (which hopefully are her biological parents) and then, the ME will have an ID. The DNA testing may take a day or two depending on the quality of the samples and whether or not results are obtained on the 1st try or if multiple attempts with different samples must be attempted.

How would they fingerprint? The LE officer said there was no tissue. Just skeletal remains.

 

[Emaa]

There have been several posts mentioning the possibility that recent rains have pushed these human remains from someplace else until they finally came to rest where they were found. While I understand this can and does happen, I don't think that will be the case here. What are the odds that they would come to settle in a dry creek bed DIRECTLY BEHIND an ABANDONED HOUSE that was formerly an ADULT ASSISTED LIVING CENTER, when he previously worked at an adult assisted living center less than a half hour away, and most SURELY would have been aware of this place, especially as he has family living very close by, and so most likely knew that it was empty at the time, as he surely had been up and down that road many times. JMO, but my guess is that house has his and Hannah's DNA all over it, and perhaps was in fact the crime scene. JMO

I hope you're right. I've thought too that perhaps the rains or even animals may have moved her to where she was found. I am sure that is something that can be determined by the investigators.

 

[otto]

The human remains were found Saturday on an abandoned farm located in Albemarle County close to where the suspect Jesse Matthew went to elementary school, according to authorities. link:

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/2014/10/19/hannah-graham-death-investigation/17550899/

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Interesting this article is calling it an abandoned "farm" not "property". I don't think 3193 looks like a farm, but don't know why they used the word "farm" either...

The property is 2.5 acres, which is not a farm.

Below is a farm with an entrance off the Walnut Creek Park road. That property belongs to the County Finance Dept. There is a dry creek behind the building.

I think that this is the location according to the photos and maps that are available. We can clearly see the median on Walnut Creek Park Road in the police photo.

 

[teeandcee]

I also believe JM is lazy. Its a lot of work to dig a hole, even for a big guy. He feels he is going to get away with it anyway, so why go through all that effort.

Totally agree about the lazy part and was gonna post it earlier but then changed my mind. Aside from my thinking they only matter to him when they're "usable" so when he's finished they're just garbage to be left out, I also think it's good old fashioned laziness.

 

[perfectingpink]

BBM:



It is my opinion that he was also able to get a hold of some drugs via his work with roofie type effects. I know many of you in the hospital industry have mentioned how closely these drugs are monitored/inventoried, but I still think that with this monster, his will was strong and he was somehow able to gain access to them. JMO

I am not ruling out this as a possibility. I do believe the only way someone in his position could get a hold of any drug (even Tylenol) would be through another higher up source. Why I cannot rule this out is because he seemed to have a way of charming MANY people he had "intimate" contact with.