Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #3

[Fence Sitter]

Theres been a lot of talk on how he accessed the property undetected so im just going to put in my two cents worth that ive been thinking from the beginning. Is it possible he walked to the back of that property from the Walnut Creek park area? Followed a stream. Perhaps an unmarked path that only locals know of and use. Im in an entirely different country but can tell you my husband and i are avid hunters and fishers. We fish creeks, beaches, lakes, oceans and reefs. We hunt farms, rivers, creeks and alike alot. We have in some "hot spots" actually created our very own tracks both with cars and on foot with our dogs due to frequenting these places so often. My point being, to someone that doesnt know its there wouldnt even realise the point in which these tracks began. But to us, we know exactly where they are, where they lead, what wildlife is around and what terrain they are. We go places people wouldnt even think to look.

Another question ive been asking myself is if the family plot has a significance. If JM has in fact been offending for so long undetected and had a decade or more to perfect his skills then its likely he would be aware of the use of cadaver dogs. Dogs detect bodies in cemeteries as well do they not? Im not 100% up to speed on dogs and have been learning a bit. Would love to know an experts opinion on this. Would a cemetery confuse a dog at all if a body was close by??

Sorry for the long post. I lurk a while and take a lot in then BAM!! Post for all im worth

 

[Hatfield]

I keep going back and forth about this and I wonder what everyone else thinks. Also have been concerned that this is where her body ended up, but only because of the rain. In that case, where exactly did the assault and murder take place? Assuming that 3193 is where JM took her, I'm inclined to think he'd prefer to attack her indoors, and he knew it was a vacant property, but that could leave such a mess and DNA everywhere. I guess it just depends on how impulsive (or stupid) he really is.

I keep wondering too whether he attacked and killed her there on the property. The reason I am leaning that way is for a few reasons.

First, he probably didnt kill her right in town because of risk of other people seeing him. And when driving down the road, it is difficult to subdue someone when driving. So, I am leaning towards that he would lure his victims out to the house/area and once there, he knew nobody would hear their screams. I know it is horrific to think about, but its the only thing that makes sense to me.

Plus, with MH, a lot of us suspected she may have took off running and was chased down and killed close to where she was found. I think basically the same thing happened here. At some point she would realize she is in a bad situation and she was either killed right in the house or she bolted out the door and he chased her down.

I think it was his MO to lure people out to these secluded spots with the promise of weed or something and then attack them when he knew nobody would hear anything.

 

[FindHG]

Mine are already sliding down a little after todays announcement! lol

Do we yet know what size feet he had? Where'd he buy shoes, local, away or same place? He may have been a memorable costumer?

 

[FindHG]

I do not believe Gracie MacCord is still missing, her charleyproject page error 404 's and she is not on VSP's list. How do we confirm that?

Sorry fixed it, it's still on the charlie project org site. I couldn't find anything but a couple pictures of her
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/maccord_gracie.html

 

[FindHG]

They can and sometimes things can take a while. Yet with the description in the reports of how the remains looked, I may truly be surprised to learn it is Hannah unless it's Hannah's remains as well as those of another.

He was familiar with quarries and the chemicals there perhaps. He may have been familiar with natural or un-natural means to expedite decomposition. Would this be part of his secret knowledge or would he have shared it with somebody? Could somebody have stumbled on method and or kit and not given it a second thought, as was the case with the sketch? To many it may have been too horrible to believe or let their minds go there?

 

[Aeronomy]

He was familiar with quarries and the chemicals there perhaps. He may have been familiar with natural or un-natural means to expedite decomposition. Would this be part of his secret knowledge or would he have shared it with somebody? Could somebody have stumbled on method and or kit and not given it a second thought, as was the case with the sketch? To many it may have been too horrible to believe or let their minds go there?

It's strange. I don't see him as the type to speed decomp with chemicals, but as someone who would be more likely to do something much more horrific.

 

[FindHG]

It's strange. I don't see him as the type to speed decomp with chemicals, but as someone who would be more likely to do something much more horrific.

Necessity mothers invention among SKs I bet.

 

[Perplexed 123]

CNN) -- Sgt. CHARLOTTESVILLE — Police on Sunday combed a narrow two-lane back road near an abandoned property in Albemarle County south of here, where searchers on Saturday found human remains thought to be those of missing University of Virginia student .
http://us.news-you-need-to-know.com/2014/10/police-believe-they-have-found-hannah.html

 

[possumheart]

Gosh, if you google "hannah Graham backroad" it seems to be the new story. I think that the dry creek bed has been surplanted

 

[jstinch]

One thing I have and not sure if it has any relevance but the owner that passed away at 3193 worked at BP...awhile back someone posted a case of a girl that had a stalker and she went to jesse Matthews house to avoid the stalker...she also worked at BP. Realizing he was a cab driver and would have to get gas a lot it's not that strange just thought he definitely had connections to a BP station.

 

[FindHG]

Jesse Matthew Could Face Capital Murder in Graham Case
By Angela Hatcher Oct 20, 2014 6:01 PM EDT
http://www.wset.com/story/26834432/jesse-matthew-could-face-capital-murder-in-graham-case

Katie Brooks reports from locations
http://www.wset.com/story/26832292/...jesse-matthew-indicted-on-sex-assault-charges

Jesse Matthew indicted in Fairfax City sexual assault case
By Justin Jouvenal, T. Rees Shapiro and Mary Pat Flaherty October 20 at 5:07 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...161ce8-5885-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

Suspect In UVa Student's Disappearance Gets Charged Raping Other Woman
AP - broadcast reported by Sandy Kozel
10/20/2014 6:59 pm EDT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/20/jesse-matthew-rape-dc_n_6018068.html?utm_hp_ref=crime

Remains Found May Belong To Missing University Of Virginia Student
Meghan McCorkell October 20, 2014 11:24 PM (inset down the page)
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/...ng-to-missing-university-of-virginia-student/


Remains found 8 miles from last Hannah Graham spotting
By Dr. Drew staff 10:14 PM EDT, Mon October 20, 2014 [a different approach]
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/10/20/human-remains-found-search-hannah-graham

 

[DizzyB]

Anybody getting the feeling that something's up? I am uneasy with the length of time the ID is taking. Are they taking the time so they can confirm a different identity? Something isn't quite right. If the chatty SO is correct, dental records should have been enough, and a short terse statement from Longo confirming, not taking questions at this time, continuing our work at this scene.... I wonder how mad Longo is that any detail as to condition of remains was released. It's causing all of this conjecture-not just us, but TV MEs, media-if there had been no leak, would the delay in ID be worrisome?

 

[bestill]

Someone mentioned earlier, not exactly sure where, about the red clay on the property. With all of the rain that fell and the condition of the remains it seems likely to me that Hannah's hair could easily have been overlooked by the finders on Saturday.

 

[kevin_405]

Anybody getting the feeling that something's up? I am uneasy with the length of time the ID is taking. Are they taking the time so they can confirm a different identity? Something isn't quite right. If the chatty SO is correct, dental records should have been enough, and a short terse statement from Longo confirming, not taking questions at this time, continuing our work at this scene.... I wonder how mad Longo is that any detail as to condition of remains was released. It's causing all of this conjecture-not just us, but TV MEs, media-if there had been no leak, would the delay in ID be worrisome?

I suspect the same thing, it is taking too long to confirm. It might not be HG hence the delay. Also raises the question How many killers r loose in the area?

 

[Emaa]

Anybody getting the feeling that something's up? I am uneasy with the length of time the ID is taking. Are they taking the time so they can confirm a different identity? Something isn't quite right. If the chatty SO is correct, dental records should have been enough, and a short terse statement from Longo confirming, not taking questions at this time, continuing our work at this scene.... I wonder how mad Longo is that any detail as to condition of remains was released. It's causing all of this conjecture-not just us, but TV MEs, media-if there had been no leak, would the delay in ID be worrisome?

I don't think so.

I think LE is being exceedingly cautious, getting all their ducks in a row and wanting 100% confirmation of ID.

Camblos' response was that he and his client are awaiting identification. IOW, "prove it".

So IMO, that's just what they're gonna do.

 

[jamicat]

I keep wondering too whether he attacked and killed her there on the property. The reason I am leaning that way is for a few reasons.

First, he probably didnt kill her right in town because of risk of other people seeing him. And when driving down the road, it is difficult to subdue someone when driving. So, I am leaning towards that he would lure his victims out to the house/area and once there, he knew nobody would hear their screams. I know it is horrific to think about, but its the only thing that makes sense to me.

Plus, with MH, a lot of us suspected she may have took off running and was chased down and killed close to where she was found. I think basically the same thing happened here. At some point she would realize she is in a bad situation and she was either killed right in the house or she bolted out the door and he chased her down.

I think it was his MO to lure people out to these secluded spots with the promise of weed or something and then attack them when he knew nobody would hear anything.

My mind keeps going back to the description of Hannah given by the "Abby" who was the checker at Tempo and one of the last people to see Hannah alive. THat description is of someone failing, in terms of being able to stand on own, not at all of the young woman we see on the video footage within an hour of that time who is walking stridently, even running and not on the verge of collapse, not needing physical support. Why would a predator who has his prey right in his arms waste another 15-20 at least, stopping at a place like Tempo and buy 2 drinks when he could have gone straight to his car with her. When you know he wants to do something, right away, the juices are flowing, the urges are there? Why would he spend over $15 on the spot? And she would probably very gratefully drink down a cold beer. She'd be thirsty from all that running, walking and be a bit dehydrated from drinking earlier. One more beer after all that time of running around from an upscale place like Tempo from someone who offered her home certainly sounded just fine. So I think something was likely in that beer and that JM had a perfectly easy ride and perfectly compliant victim. Makes it even more horrible, more demonic that he's kill her when he's done. He could have taken her back to town, left her off in a back alley somewhere alive to wake up with no memory or a vague memory of what happened, and maybe just left things as that.

 

[jamicat]

I suspect the same thing, it is taking too long to confirm. It might not be HG hence the delay. Also raises the question How many killers r loose in the area?

I was thinking the same since dental ID does not take long, and LE most certainly had Hannah' Dental x rays right at hand just in case with all the time that had gone by since she was reported missing. However, MH's ID, done by dental records initially also took 4 days after the find, at least the announcement to the public of the match.

 

[Wysteria]

Not sure. Fondling someone is different than intercourse, and makes it less likely there was any seminal fluid. How is he then linked to MH? Are you saying that it doesn't matter so long as one of the charges sticks? Thanks!

Fondling, rape using a penis or another object to insert into a woman against her will...all the same in that these acts are power and violence and control of/over women. I'm certainly not suggesting that what I have just stated are not on the same level of violence etc...that is not the point of this post.

As far as your questions, I'm thoroughly baffled as to why one would ask said questions.

LE has already stated that the cases of MH and HG are linked. That is all that matters at this time.

 

[Samdonite]

Theres been a lot of talk on how he accessed the property undetected so im just going to put in my two cents worth that ive been thinking from the beginning. Is it possible he walked to the back of that property from the Walnut Creek park area? Followed a stream. Perhaps an unmarked path that only locals know of and use. Im in an entirely different country but can tell you my husband and i are avid hunters and fishers. We fish creeks, beaches, lakes, oceans and reefs. We hunt farms, rivers, creeks and alike alot. We have in some "hot spots" actually created our very own tracks both with cars and on foot with our dogs due to frequenting these places so often. My point being, to someone that doesnt know its there wouldnt even realise the point in which these tracks began. But to us, we know exactly where they are, where they lead, what wildlife is around and what terrain they are. We go places people wouldnt even think to look.

Cruising the various aerial sources, it is easy to see trails from inside the park connecting to properties around there including the one with that part of ammonett branch

 

[Bearmama]

Can't seem to link the previous post about wishing there was a daily summary of events and what it might look like:

Bessie certainly doesn't need anything else to do, but it could be anyone who is able to keep up with the day's discoveries or any LE updates. I would love to be able to be on WE all the time, but I'm thinking my family might not enjoy it quite as much. As active as the HG boards are, it's hard for me to make it through all the pages and threads the way I'd like to. The MSM gives me the basics, but not the depth and speculative theories that I've come to look forward to on WS.