Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #3

[Hoosgirl]

In 2012, the Harringtons and others canvassed the North Garden area. If only ....

http://www.nbc29.com/story/18747242/help-save-the-next-girl-volunteers-canvass-north-garden

 

[johnallore]

Couple of things:

Tight, dark pants: definitely what HG was wearing the night she disappeared.

Rates of decomposition: That's tricky. It varies. Just ask anyone who has worked at a body farm.

Scattered evidence, location: Yes, definitely sounds familiar.

Shenanigans: I don't quite follow this. LE appears to be doing everything right so far.

www.theresaallore.com

 

[JohnTate90210]

Doesn't make sense that he would go to a home/property that is across the rd from an active home. jmo idk

The Harrington site was also strange. Distant from the road (where he had to leave his car unattended and visible) but the body was basically in an open field. Why not leave it over in the wooded area, instead? In that case, did he carry the body that far or have her walk?

 

[newshound6]

In Coy Barefoot's story he quoted the tipster as stating he saw large flocks of buzzards on Oct.5 &6. Unless the "finder" is a trained medical pro. their description may be inaccurate to some degree ,add in excitement etc... Also...What kind of shenanigans could possibly be going on? I dont understand that at all-is it because we, as the public are not having every single detail revealed to us RIGHT NOW?

 

[ILOKAL]

JMO Was that property on the market on sept 13 to now? Who was maintaining it and was it never shown by a realtor? JMO

A fellow poster (sorry - don't remember who) posted on the thread recently closed, pictures of the main house and the cottage that are part of a Century 21 RE listing with an asking price of $325,000. Previous listings were for $300,000 and under. The photos show the outside and inside of each house. The main house was remodeled in 2006. The square footage of the listing shows over 2700 sf and includes the main house which is 1000+ sf, the cottage which is 600+ sf, AND the unfinished walk-out basement of the main house.

 

[Just K]

This area has abandoned properties and is close to the site where the remains were found. I hope LE is combing this turnaround area with a FINE TOOTHED COMB!!!
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.922...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sRkxNF0Pk6twHAgI3FhXrRw!2e0

 

[mirv22]

I can't understand how the property that is vacant/empty/abandoned, but has the lawn maintained & like another poster said (?) sorry, and the body wasn't seen. That leads me to believe that it was in the woods and not at the edge, visible. Then that tells me that unless the body was close to the edge then the buzzards didn't go in the woods but would be seen flying over head. Something still not right about the supposed location at this assisted living property. It's not that far down and across the rd there is another home that is occupied, looking from street level there are cars/vehicles at the home. Doesn't make sense that he would go to a home/property that is across the rd from an active home. jmo idk

It was vacant, but not abandoned. There is an owner of the property. She likely had someone come and maintain the lawn. The creek runs through the woods, so there would be at least a little distance from the edge of the maintained lawn to where the body was laying. The house right next door (not the cabin) definitely looks to be occupied. I am a little shocked too that he would go someplace right next to an active home. Maybe he came in from another direction? Maybe that gated area pictured in Google street view, further down the road? Maybe the remains washed down the creek bed from another location? So many things.

 

[Paulap]

I can't understand how the property that is vacant/empty/abandoned, but has the lawn maintained & like another poster said (?) sorry, and the body wasn't seen. That leads me to believe that it was in the woods and not at the edge, visible. Then that tells me that unless the body was close to the edge then the buzzards didn't go in the woods but would be seen flying over head. Something still not right about the supposed location at this assisted living property. It's not that far down and across the rd there is another home that is occupied, looking from street level there are cars/vehicles at the home. Doesn't make sense that he would go to a home/property that is across the rd from an active home. jmo idk

at night on that road, it is PITCH black! i hit a deer on that road one night very late but was too scared to stop... that house's yard has always been very well maintained - behind it are woods... i can totally see someone going in there at night with the lights off... no one would have seen a thing

 

[Paulap]

One thing that is standing out right now is that this property used to be a rental and in fact it still looks like it could have someone living there. Why would JM go here? How would he know if it was not rented at the time? Was he familiar with who lived there and knew it would be safe to go in the back? He had to be comfortable with the area. It is not like he was miles from a road/house. Remains were found close to a house and a road. I think there is something else that needs to be sleuthed in regards to this location.

locals know that house has been vacant for years

 

[helpfulcharlie]

Couple of things:

Tight, dark pants: definitely what HG was wearing the night she disappeared.

Rates of decomposition: That's tricky. It varies. Just ask anyone who has worked at a body farm.

Scattered evidence, location: Yes, definitely sounds familiar.

Shenanigans: I don't quite follow this. LE appears to be doing everything right so far.

www.theresaallore.com

Thanks for the body farm reference. I hadn't heard the term, maybe other members hadn't either. Summary: You can donate your body upon death for research into decomp etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm

 

[TheBunk]

I'm guessing there are many routes JLM could have taken to get to this part of the property. I'm sure part of the reason for the massive crime scene is trying to find a way to retrace exactly how he made his way there. In a rural area like that I'm sure there are many ways he could have come through the woods.

 

[cady]

Boy, am I confused....Was the body found behind the house? If so, maybe "the road" is the long driveway? Or "close to the road" meaning simply, not deep in the woods? JMO

 

[Conductor71]

My understanding is that bones were found. Forgive my ignorance but is 5 weeks enough time to have flesh/skin/hair gone from the body? Could it be someone else? I presume they have evidence that it is HG otherwise they would not have called off search efforts.

Doesn't it seem like it, but I think it can be variable depending on location and temperature, humidity levels, for starters. Also read that a thinner person decomposes more rapidly because less tissue (body fat) which makes a lot of sense.

For anyone who is inclined, there is a formula for estimating decomposition rate based on average daily temperatures. I did see that the standard for complete decomposition to skeletal stage is 1285 days, so 5 weeks seems like warp speed? Covered in detail here. If anyone wants to pursue....

Decomposition is a complicated process, but is primarily dependent on temperature and to a lesser extent on
moisture. In our studies we have worked out a simple formula, which describes the soft tissue decomposition
process for persons lying on the ground.


The formula is y=1285/x (where y is the number of days it takes to
become skeletonized or mummified and x is the average
temperature in Centigrade during the decomposition
process). So, if the average temperature is 10 °C, then
1285/10 = 128.5 days for someone to become
skeletonized.

Of course, this is a rough estimate since
many factors affect this rate and it is typically used at a
crime scene when investigators need some time frame
from which to begin their investigation.

http://www.archeo.uw.edu.pl/zalaczniki/upload617.pdf

http://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1098&context=utk_gradthes

 

[newshound6]

I'm not a whiz at google maps, etc...but after seeing the countless photos of the road,properties, parks,etc...I am really struck by how much open, wooded, undeveloped land there is in that area along OldLynchburg Road! A long-term vacant property would be well known to locals driving by (like JLM)

 

[ILOKAL]

seems like that house had been up for rent for ages!

This site shows that Mountainview Adult Home is an assisted living facility established in 2010 and had two employees. It shows a phone number. Several posters have discussed the Facebook page for Mountainview Adult Home as well. It has been said (perhaps speculated - don't know) that JLM owned his own business at one time and that he previously worked at a different assisted living facility. Might he be (have been) one of the two employees at MVAH or maybe one of the business (not property) owners?

http://www.manta.com/c/mr44ppr/mountainview-adult-home
(Thanks Balboalady for finding the link for me)

 

[4MYGUYS]

I can't understand how the property that is vacant/empty/abandoned, but has the lawn maintained & like another poster said (?) sorry, and the body wasn't seen. That leads me to believe that it was in the woods and not at the edge, visible. Then that tells me that unless the body was close to the edge then the buzzards didn't go in the woods but would be seen flying over head. Something still not right about the supposed location at this assisted living property. It's not that far down and across the rd there is another home that is occupied, looking from street level there are cars/vehicles at the home. Doesn't make sense that he would go to a home/property that is across the rd from an active home. jmo idk

With the home on the market the owner probably had a lawn service keep the grounds up, but not go into the house. I know with the deer carcass it must be flattened now, as I cannot see anything from the road, so it may be a maintenance guy didn't see anything. If the wind was in the wrong direction he wouldn't have smelled anything either. The reports are saying that JM knew this area well, so it doesn't surprise me that he would know that it is vacant. Plus I believe the owner was involved in an auto accident and everyone would have known that. I think that the location is ideal actually. It is vacant but not far from other homes, but had access from the adjacent park,(daytime access). Yet if he wanted to drive up the driveway at 3am and park behind the house, he would not be seen. And fishing was the perfect cover for prowling around the area
Edit to add: And with his learning curve escalation, learning from Morgan Harrington, the water nearby would be ideal to help dispose of the evidence.

 

[lil212]

Thanks for the body farm reference. I hadn't heard the term, maybe other members hadn't either. Summary: You can donate your body upon death for research into decomp etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm

I hadn't heard of it either and am shocked this thing exists (not that it shouldn't, it's just -- so grim)!

 

[bestill]

Believe that the finder did probably over share with the reporter, still proud of him though, for following his "voice".

 

[Spicer2000]

Doesn't it seem like it, but I think it can be variable depending on location and temperature, humidity levels, for starters. Also read that a thinner person decomposes more rapidly because less tissue (body fat) which makes a lot of sense.

For anyone who is inclined, there is a formula for estimating decomposition rate based on average daily temperatures. I did see that the standard for complete decomposition to skeletal stage is 1285 days, so 5 weeks seems like warp speed? Covered in detail here. If anyone wants to pursue....

Decomposition is a complicated process, but is primarily dependent on temperature and to a lesser extent on
moisture. In our studies we have worked out a simple formula, which describes the soft tissue decomposition
process for persons lying on the ground.


The formula is y=1285/x (where y is the number of days it takes to
become skeletonized or mummified and x is the average
temperature in Centigrade during the decomposition
process). So, if the average temperature is 10 °C, then
1285/10 = 128.5 days for someone to become
skeletonized.

Of course, this is a rough estimate since
many factors affect this rate and it is typically used at a
crime scene when investigators need some time frame
from which to begin their investigation.

http://www.archeo.uw.edu.pl/zalaczniki/upload617.pdf

http://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1098&context=utk_gradthes

If we say that the average temperature was 24 C, then decomp would happen in 54 days. However, this formula doesn't take into account bug and animal activity, which would rapidly speed things up. JMO.

 

[lil212]

I don't think it's unusual for just a skeleton to be found. So many creatures...ants, vultures, etc. prey on the deceased. I don't understand why her hair is missing....unless it wasn't there in the first place. I do pray that her family has some comfort.... although I doubt they ever will have any peace or understanding of this so very senseless and selfish act.

I had no idea a body could decompose so quickly. Maybe it's hard to come to terms with the fact that what feels so solid and permanent (our bodies) can just disintegrate like that. Frankly, it's freaking me out.