Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #4

[Aeronomy]

Then how did they get a match for unknown perp in MH and 2005 rape case?

DNA from the crime scene can be tested against DNA in CODIS, it just can't be entered. The link between MH and the 2005 case likely came about from running DNA evidence from the MH crime scene against what was entered in CODIS from 2005. This would bring about the link and may explain why there's no charges in MH's case at this time.

 

[LI-Mom]

New video From CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/20/us/hannah-graham-disappearance/index.html?c=us

Interesting, listen to what Jeffrey Ban of the Virginia Department of Forensic Science says at the end of the video. "You've got sun, you've got moisture, you've got chemical thing...you know, that could cause degradation."

I know people were questioning here if JM used something to speed up decomposition, and I found that last part weird. It was as if he was going to say chemical things and stopped himself but a little too late. Anyone else find it odd?

 

[hambirg]

Then how did they get a match for unknown perp in MH and 2005 rape case?

The DNA from the 2005 rape case came from the rapist. That ones a given. The DNA ran from MH's case had to be found in some way that LE believed that it came from Morgan's killer. There has been much debate as to where it came from, but LE has never told us. I trust it wasn't random.

 

[Heroine]

The DNA from the 2005 rape case came from the rapist. That ones a given. The DNA ran from MH's case had to be found in some way that LE believed that it came from Morgan's killer. There has been much debate as to where it came from, but LE has never told us. I trust it wasn't random.

It's been stated that it came from her (MH) body by her parents and knowing what I know now I believe it. That was what I found all those links for..lol

 

[hambirg]

It's been stated that it came from her (MH) body by her parents and knowing what I know now I believe it. That was what I found all those links for..lol

I believe that too. I just didn't want to revive the "debate."

Btw. . .I think a lot of these posts should be in other threads and not the search thread.

 

[chipmunk]

Just reading.. Jesse Matthew "liked and commented" on Morgan Harringtons "help find morgan harrington" Facebook! Sick!!!

Now the posts only go back to Sept 10, 2014. I scrolled down for over an hour to check.

 

[makista]

Interesting, listen to what Jeffrey Ban of the Virginia Department of Forensic Science says at the end of the video. "You've got sun, you've got moisture, you've got chemical thing...you know, that could cause degradation."

I know people were questioning here if JM used something to speed up decomposition, and I found that last part weird. It was as if he was going to say chemical things and stopped himself but a little too late. Anyone else find it odd?

Cases with alcohol present were classified as endogenous production, ingestion, or unable to determine based upon one or more of the following criteria: the presence of ethanol in only one of more than one body fluids, an atypical distribution of ethanol in body fluids, reliable scene or historical information, the presence of C3 alcohols in body fluids. Alcohol was classified as endogenously produced in 55 cases

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8263473

 

[Heroine]

I believe that too. I just didn't want to revive the "debate."

Btw. . .I think a lot of these posts should be in other threads and not the search thread.

Ahhhh yes, the debate! We need no resurrections, please!

 

[Just K]

Everyone Should read Alexis thread.
Its possible she could be found in Charolettesville.

I think Since the SAR thread came so close, based on research in HG's case to this crime scene location ,we should reveiw Alexis thread and the research on there to see if before the search we could offer any helpful tips as to an area where RAT could have hidden Alexis. RAT and JM seems very much alike in their methods of abduction.

Yep and they both chat up the victims before abducting, sexually assaulting them and killing them. Ah, and they both like to hang out and chat up people at convenience stores.

 

[chipmunk]

Thank you......still trying to figure out how to navigate this site.

If it's an active thread you can usually find it under new posts, upper left after sign in. I find that easier if there's many threads than searching for victim's name.

 

[chipmunk]

<BBM>
The probability of a direct or indirect meth connection is very high in JM's abductions/rapes/murders, imo. Not only does long term abuse of meth create psychopathic personalities, imo, but meth also causes users to be very brazen and it increases labido..

I have been researching slight acquaintance/stranger sexual predator/serial killer abductions for almost a decade. Since the days of the speed freak killers-CA - 1980s) meth has been a common denominator in a very high majority of these heinous crimes, imo.

speed freak killers-CA - 1980s
The Speed Freak Killers is the name given to serial killer duo Loren Herzog and Wesley Shermantine, together initially convicted of four murders — three jointly — and suspected in the deaths of as many as 72 people in and around San Joaquin County, California. They received the "speed freak" moniker due to their methamphetamine abuse.

<sniped -read more>

So for someone like JM it seems to me if he used meth it would be to incapacitate someone if it does incapacitate people. From what I know about regular meth users they get old, ugly, thin and sick very quickly. So I don't think Jm was a regular meth user, make sense?

 

[TravelingBug]

Hey, don't be dissing my jinkasaurus.

Your story had me cracking up last night! :laughing:

And then the others who chimed in - and every time someone called her Jinkasaurus later in the thread - would make me bust up laughing all over again! But because I had company from out of town sleeping in the other room, I was then trying to stifle it every time, which of course makes it worse! Ha!

Then today, totally random, I saw 4 references to dinosaurs in articles. In ARTICLES! I can't even begin to think the last time I saw a reference to a dinosaur in anything that wasn't kid related.

So to see dinosaur related things where I least expected it had me laughing all over again every time!

I'm so glad Jinkasaurus isn't the one who was axed last week - it's too fun knowing she's going to be all over the place again thanks to the Arias trial and that it'll inevitably mean some needed lightheartedness all over again!

Thank you for sharing it!

Along with Carrie Ann Inaba (DWTS judge) is the name I was thrown by for awhile - it always sounded like Carrie Ann In Arbor to me.

 

[TravelingBug]

Essentially we have these reasons for why we don't know if it's Hannah yet:
1. They are processing cases in order and haven't gotten to her yet.
2. The remains (or lack thereof) are making it difficult to make a definitive conclusion.
3. It's not Hannah and they're trying to figure out who it is before going public.
4. They found more than one person's remains and want to gather more evidence before telling the public.
5. They are negotiating w JM.

What else?

I'm assuming they knew the Fairfax charges were about to happen (even before the remains were found) and that are very carefully orchestrating the timing of things.

I suspect Fairfax has been working with CPD on timing and that they were waiting to actually go forward with the Fairfax case at the time it was best for things with HG's case.

There's nothing they'd have gotten once they had a confirmation of Jesse's DNA to prove it really was him. The victim almost certainly had confirmed him visually once they had his picture. And once they had his DNA - and the victim knew he was behind bars - there's nothing else that's happened in the last few weeks that would have changed what they have now. Meaning why wouldn't they have moved forward on Fairfax earlier unless it was strategic.

My suspicion is they were holding off on Fairfax in case they could use it (OR needed it) as a bargaining chip at some point down the road in regards to HG.

For instance to say they'd not pursue those charges if he gave over the HG remain locations...or something like that...if they didn't find them on their own. Sort of like how SDSO and SDPD ended up using Chelsea King's case not being a DP case if he gave the location of Amber's remains.

And I think they were just going to give it some time (hoping they'd end up finding them themselves before winter made it nearly impossible) hoping that then they'd be able to actually use it for leverage in another way, which I suspect is why they moved forward on Fairfax as soon as the remains were found.

I equally think that CPD is intentionally not confirming the remains are HG yet. They really don't need to. He's behind bars and he's not going anywhere.

Fairfax can go forward, CPD can take their sweet time, being even more meticulous than they'd want to be anyway, and they can be working on ensuring the HG case is airtight as Fairfax starts moving. And it also lets them continue to pursue what other things he may also be tied to and will make him squirm even more.

I think as soon as he has his first Fairfax appearance they'll confirm it's HG.

 

[TravelingBug]

Just read on twitter where camblos isn't representing JM in fairfax, probably not worth his time. he knows he isn't going to get money for this. I read one reply on twitter said "Camblos used to put people like JM away for life, can't imagine how he is defending him". True, for so long he represented the state and victim. Personally, I could never represent that monster

As someone pointed out, things are in a very different place than they were when Camblos agreed to represent him.

The number of things it's looking like JM may have been involved in now is obviously far beyond just HG.

Camblos really could use this to get out.

Say he can't do Fairfax (because as others have said, there are too many complicated components for one person to do very well anyway - especially since there is a degree of distance between even just Fairfax and C-ville) while doing the HG side.

Someone else takes Fairfax (and inevitably more is going to come out on what else JM's tied to) and then Camblos can say he can't represent him given all the additional components and that he'd not have agreed to take the case from the get go if he knew all of this (or something like that).

Since Fairfax is going forward for the moment, even if Camblos steps down, it's not like it'd bring the HG side to a standstill...especially if CPD holds off a bit longer on even confirming it's her.

And then that gives time for someone else to take the HG part (and frankly there'll probably end up being a few "someone elses") since it's likely there'll be the MH component and probably a few others!

 

[verbonica]

I'm assuming they knew the Fairfax charges were about to happen (even before the remains were found) and that are very carefully orchestrating the timing of things.

I suspect Fairfax has been working with CPD on timing and that they were waiting to actually go forward with the Fairfax case at the time it was best for things with HG's case.

There's nothing they'd have gotten once they had a confirmation of Jesse's DNA to prove it really was him. The victim almost certainly had confirmed him visually once they had his picture. And once they had his DNA - and the victim knew he was behind bars - there's nothing else that's happened in the last few weeks that would have changed what they have now. Meaning why wouldn't they have moved forward on Fairfax earlier unless it was strategic.

My suspicion is they were holding off on Fairfax in case they could use it (OR needed it) as a bargaining chip at some point down the road in regards to HG.

For instance to say they'd not pursue those charges if he gave over the HG remain locations...or something like that...if they didn't find them on their own. Sort of like how SDSO and SDPD ended up using Chelsea King's case not being a DP case if he gave the location of Amber's remains.

And I think they were just going to give it some time (hoping they'd end up finding them themselves before winter made it nearly impossible) hoping that then they'd be able to actually use it for leverage in another way, which I suspect is why they moved forward on Fairfax as soon as the remains were found.

I equally think that CPD is intentionally not confirming the remains are HG yet. They really don't need to. He's behind bars and he's not going anywhere.

Fairfax can go forward, CPD can take their sweet time, being even more meticulous than they'd want to be anyway, and they can be working on ensuring the HG case is airtight as Fairfax starts moving. And it also lets them continue to pursue what other things he may also be tied to and will make him squirm even more.

I think as soon as he has his first Fairfax appearance they'll confirm it's HG.

I think that you may just be right on in your assessment. It's rather glaring that the Fairfax announcement came on the very first working day after the discovery on Saturday (the ceasing of the search for Hannah).

 

[TravelingBug]

Just jumping off your post....

could JM have "placed" HG in one of RT's "dumping" grounds... To try to make it look like RT was the killer... Or at least to confuse (commingle) the evidence?

Have killers been known to do this?

:dunno:

I don't think he'd know where RAT dumped...unless he knew him somehow, which seems really unlikely - UNLESS they worked together (in which case then that wouldn't really make that possible scenario work I don't think)

There's nothing that makes where he put HG anything that seems like a natural RAT location I don't think.

Plus, it'd actually make it look worse for himself I think, since where the presumed HG remains are actually are quite close to where Morgan was found, which makes it look even more like JM than RAT. :dunno:

 

[TravelingBug]

I was just wondering if they are delaying confirmation to use as a strategy with JM....make him sweat and see if he will confess and then they might try to get him to reveal other victims. I'm not exactly sure how this would help that but Israel Keyes was very sensitive to publicity and kept saying he would give them information if details were not released. Of course, he ended up giving them very little. It's a wild guess but they really should know by now and for some reason are keeping it quiet for the time being. I think it is Hannah because of the black pants, huge amount of vultures in the area which would mean a fresh kill and the veiled way that LE is saying but not saying that it is Hannah. I'm sure they also are not revealing all the evidence they have that points to her. It might just possibly be a little chess game they are playing with JM to get as much information from him as possible.

I believe that's exactly it!

You were more succinct than me, but I believe it's completely orchestrated to delay confirming at the moment.

And in the same way, I believe Fairfax delayed bringing their charges forward until they did.

I think they were working with CPD in case they then needed THAT for leverage (to find HG)

Because then they can use HG confirmation for something else if they need it (or if they didn't get as much as they hope for at the scene - though I think that's next to completely impossible) though I think they'll confirm after JM's first Fairfax appearance.

 

[TravelingBug]

Some clarification on the new AM search


NBC29 &#8207;@NBC29

UPDATE: Sheriff Brooks tells @HenryGraff they are searching Orange because of Randy Taylor's ties to that area.
Charlottesville, VA

Henry Graff @HenryGraff · 41m 41 minutes ago

JUST IN: Sheriff Brooks tells @HenryGraff they started search for #AlexisMurphy in Aug. but stopped because area was too overgrown.

Out of curiosity from a local...

Would the area really be that much less overgrown only 6-8 weeks later?

I think there's more to this anyway (the timing of this), but am very curious since every time someone posts that tweet again it makes me think that even moreso, since where I am, things would be MORE overgrown 6-8 weeks later (at this time of year) than say actually in winter where I could see perhaps there truly being less...though with more on the ground from leaves.

 

[TravelingBug]

He was. That's one of the signs where I started to wonder about psychopathy. Appearance and own self concern.

That's so funny!

I actually thought it was more of an indicator of how cocky he was!

He'd gotten off on basically everything in his past - no charges in two rapes/assaults, plus nothing with the assault on the attorney.

I thought he was kind of trying to show he wasn't concerned and to come across as both nonplussed about it, but also perhaps a little "off" (as it was already out there early on that some considered him "slow") thinking he'd get out of the HG bit just as he had everything else.

(Well and obviously since he'd also know all the other things they weren't even vocalizing that they thought he might be tied to or were just investigating for that possibility, at that point he thought he was clear on those too)

And then I've taken his change in behaviour since as a sign he's actually worried and realized he's way up a creek now!

Well, and he's not really had a platform to complain this time even if he wanted to (or not that we'd have seen publicly) so then not even being sure if perhaps he really is still being a little "Princess and the Pea"- esque only now we don't know! :crazy:

Though I do think that'd a huge mistake if he is still doing it...because he surely got wind of how poorly his first list of complaints in TX went over since I'm sure his attorney told him any future juries were probably not going to take that favorably!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Question: don't police need a search warrant (or at least owner permission) to venture into private property for searches (even if it appears abandoned)? If coming from the direction of searching the park northeast of where the possible remains of HG were found, it appears they'd have had to maybe venture into even a second parcel of private property before reaching the one being described.