Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

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Rest in Peace, dear Hannah. I have been thinking about why friends don't stick together when they go out to party these days. My wild and crazy 20's were in the late 70's, early 80's. When we went out to clubs and concerts, etc, our group never separated from each other. We arrived together & we left together. I think the change is because now everyone has a cell phone which creates a false sense of security because perhaps the kids think with that cell phone they have a lifeline of sorts so they feel they are never truly alone - they can text, have GPS, etc. We see now how wrong that is - with Morgan and now Hannah. As I wax philosophically, this reflects to me how all this technology can indeed make one feel included and protected, but on the other hand, so freaking alone and vulnerable. Seems everyone thinks, "hey, I have a cell phone, I can always reach someone" when in fact that all depends on the availability and common sense of the people you are hoping will recognize your distress and come to your assistance. I am not blaming her friends (Hannah or Morgan), but feel that technology works against us in giving a false sense of security. I know when a bunch of us went out to party all night, we would all manage to leave together in the same car or cars, and would never leave our buddy out there alone. I remember everyone getting dropped off one by one at their home, we'd watch them get in their house, shut in safely, and end up sleeping over someone's house till the next morning, but rarely allowing a girl to drive home alone without making sure we were all safe. That has changed, apparently, and it is not a good change. God Bless Hannah and her family. I remember my mother waiting up for me while I was doing my wild and crazy out all night college days. But also, three of us lived on the same block and we always stayed together.

There but for the grace of... it could be any of us or the ones we love. It doesn't make sense. Hannah Graham, Morgan Harrington, Alexis Murphy, Cassandra Morton, Jamisha Gilbert, Zulma Pabon, Heidi Childs & David Metzler, DaShad Laquinn Smith... see the timeline, please, missing, found brutally murdered, raped, and no justice, no peace, not just yet. This goes on.

LE needs tips about anything noticeable at all around OL Rd that people may remember. Hope people are still calling in with information.

10-23-2014, 08:01 PM #14 shutterbug22 timeline
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Graham-MAPS-amp-TIMELINES-**NO-DISCUSSION**
 
There is nothing conclusive but researchers have found that the part of the brain that has a "conscience", so to speak, is damaged and non-functioning in people who score high on the standard psychopathy tests (by Dr. David Hare). A child could have a bad fall and... who knows?
 
But, if it is a physiological defect, maybe it can be fixed. The stem cell research is just a beginning and I think anything is possible. In the future.

Sorry to keep posting these bits and pieces. But the hope is important. It is too horrible to think that this kind of suffering is the fate of all humankind.
 
There is nothing conclusive but researchers have found that the part of the brain that has a "conscience", so to speak, is damaged and non-functioning in people who score high on the standard psychopathy tests (by Dr. David Hare). A child could have a bad fall and... who knows?

His state of mind seems likely to have been that he knew his horrible actions would have consequences. He very knowingly and very effectively made the choices to hide that part of himself, forethought, decisions, planning, evasion, savage rapid brutality, manipulation, etc... didn't all happen as a result of bumping his head, traumatic experience, mental illness or sensory challenges. Huge numbers of people suffer from mental illnesses but don't choose to serial rape and murder. What remains to be seen is if more of his victims can reach justice and their families be given some peace. Now that he faces charges, in jail, and Hannah Graham's remains may well be his doing and undoing, it would be nice if he opened up, or the people who could help the most do, at least.
 
If there is good to come out of this tragedy,maybe it will be this. Hannah's legacy will be to serve as a lesson for all of us. On 9/11 hundreds of innocent people sat on planes while evil played out;except for flight 93. Realizing they were the only ones who could stop evil;they stepped up, with their own lives to stop the evil.I think we all feel helpless to intervene when we see someone in danger. There were a lot of people on the mall that night,people were aware there was a young woman alone and we have to ask ourselves ,would we have stepped up? When bystanders saw Hannah staggering;no one intervened. Fear and apathy overtook everyone near. Maybe now we can make a difference. I'm hoping we all start to be better guardians of each other,and prevent this from happening again.Thanks Hannah.
 
IDK why but I think that the family is looking at this like everyone else, he did it. I believe that they know in the hearts that he did this. If I remember correctly JM's mom and dad were not married so she would be a Carr even though he has his father name. I have a feeling that his mother has known that he was different and had issues growing up, iirc she moved he his sake. I am thinking that this family has accepted the reality in knowing that he is guilty. jmo idk

I have seen statements like this, carefully crafted by the attorney in order to express sympathy as well as elicit some, reminding others that they too are a family and are facing a difficult road. A different one, but they themselves did not do this horrific thing.
What I found odd was that the statement included the Harrington family. Why did they tie the two together? Why did they almost link them to Jesse? I would think that Camblos would fight the DNA connection in a court of law through any means. Chain of evidence, degradation of sample, DNA was not from scene etc. It felt like an admission.
 
Hannah Graham

This Legacy Guest Book will remain online Permanently. -
See more at: http://www.legacy.com/guestbooks/ka...lences/172930560?&page=8#sthash.yEOq4TgM.dpuf

Read more here: http://www.legacy.com/guestbooks/kansas/hannah-graham-condolences/172930560?&page=8#storylink=cpy

Thanx for sharing the legacy guestbook link, perfectingpink. There are condolences to the Graham family from folks all over the USA. Hannah Graham, and her family have touched many, many people. Imo, It is very important to keep her memory alive, allowing her to shine her bright light, in hopes that it will guide the next girl home safely.. RIP Hannah Graham..
 
I'll admit, I've wondered about him over and over again, ArmchairSherlock. I realize it was probably just my over-active imagination, but there was something so creepy about how he ducked into a doorway and watched her, then fell in behind and followed her. I'm not saying he did anything wrong, but all my nerve endings went into antenna mode when I saw that video clip, and I never forgot the chill it gave me.

Yes, I find it really curious how some witnesses are vetted then released, while others are dismissed or ignored, and then one becomes a person of interest, or suspect, with absolutely zero transparency!?! No one can dare ask because LE just knows, they always do the right thing, in other words it would seem they are not subject to much oversight. It is really scary. I am not saying JM is innocent, but until a jury convicts him, he is still presumed as such.

That guy essentially threw JM under the bus. Based on his testimony alone, JM had his arm around her? I thought we had video of that, and all I can find is a clip of them walking together. Why was he let go? Same with the guy who reportedly offered to walk her home at the party she left? What is his story? I can see why JM became a suspect. However, witness testimony is not what I would call compelling evidence; especially when there is conflicting testimony. For example, the owner of Tempo made the statement (smart move in hindsight) right away that HG was never in that bar. Given that we never see her try to gain access to another bar or see her in that bar makes him more credible IMO. I am not saying LE needs to compromise their investigation, I just think they need to make their processes and procedures in a general sense more transparent.
 
I have seen statements like this, carefully crafted by the attorney in order to express sympathy as well as elicit some, reminding others that they too are a family and are facing a difficult road. A different one, but they themselves did not do this horrific thing.
What I found odd was that the statement included the Harrington family. Why did they tie the two together? Why did they almost link them to Jesse? I would think that Camblos would fight the DNA connection in a court of law through any means. Chain of evidence, degradation of sample, DNA was not from scene etc. It felt like an admission.

I think he knows JM is guilty, jmo and he is working on anything less then death. jmo

snipped

He said he believes if a client is accused of murder and is convicted of assault and battery, “I’ve won my case.”

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/l...cle_1870ae78-7bd6-11e3-b68b-001a4bcf6878.html
January 12, 2014 5:08 pm

He was commonwealth’s attorney for Albemarle County for 16 years and then an assistant commonwealth’s attorney in the city of Waynesboro, responsible for trying all kinds of criminal cases, including homicides.
 
I think that a normal child who is neglected in such a way may turn bitter as a result of said neglect. But if it is true that a child can be born with psychopathy, it's not saying that they're born "evil", but "ill". Like I said before, it's a pleasant dream to imagine that someday some people could be recognized as sufferers of an illness and not as pure evil heartless monsters, and that those people could receive treatment.

Actually, not to get into huge things here, but that kind of neglect does not simply cause bitterness,

It causes children to have no conscience. No empathy. There is plenty of info out there.
 
Yes, I find it really curious how some witnesses are vetted then released, while others are dismissed or ignored, and then one becomes a person of interest, or suspect, with absolutely zero transparency!?! No one can dare ask because LE just knows, they always do the right thing, in other words it would seem they are not subject to much oversight. It is really scary. I am not saying JM is innocent, but until a jury convicts him, he is still presumed as such.

That guy essentially threw JM under the bus. Based on his testimony alone, JM had his arm around her? I thought we had video of that, and all I can find is a clip of them walking together. Why was he let go? Same with the guy who reportedly offered to walk her home at the party she left? What is his story? I can see why JM became a suspect. However, witness testimony is not what I would call compelling evidence; especially when there is conflicting testimony. For example, the owner of Tempo made the statement (smart move in hindsight) right away that HG was never in that bar. Given that we never see her try to gain access to another bar or see her in that bar makes him more credible IMO. I am not saying LE needs to compromise their investigation, I just think they need to make their processes and procedures in a general sense more transparent.

LE doesn't owe the public all the evidence they have until trial and do you really think all they have on JM is witness testimony? Haven't we been over and over what we do know that they have linking him to all these cases? And do you really think they didn't vet that witness behind the scenes or do you think they would just let him go if they thought he was involved at all? I just don't get all this questioning of LE simply bc we don't know the reasons behind why they do everything they do. Way too cynical IMO. And as far as the arm around her I've watched that video a hundred times and every time it looks to me like his arm is around her but again I don't think the fact one witness says he saw him put his arm around her is what LE would base their whole case on..
 
Chemical imbalance could also be hypothesized here. Certain hormones regulate kidney function that may be genetic. They are finding that some disorders that are seemingly unrelated, occur on the same gene sequence. (like diabetes, asthma and depression all being related). This theory states that's why some disorders run in families (like bed wetting, diabetes, etc).

The more "commonalities" we see in these monsters, the more geneticists can study what's going on here. I've seen far too many cases of "natural monsters" and believe that at least SOME of these psychopaths are born and not made.

I've never really understood the bedwetting part, either.....the other two make sense in releasing pent up rage as a child and according to wiki, regaining a sense of power for the child that has been humiliated repeatedly and harshly, I'd imagine, by the parents. The only thing I can think of is a subconscious rebellion to an over controlling, micro managing parent but read on wikipedia where the bed wetting part has been discredited. I think most psychologists like Helen Morrison, who has interviewed and studied serial killers extensively believe that it is a perfect storm between heredity and environment that creates them. What all the factors are, I don't know but plan to look further into it.
 
I will not believe an infant is born evil. A one year old is not evil.

How we treat infants impacts what happens. Otherwise we could just leave them in a crib all day , change them and feed them and they would be ok.

Children need love, holding, having their cries answered, interactions with caregivers, and guidance not fear or violence, for instance.

True that environment can cause psychological disturbance, but infants left in the crib, only fed and changed, would not necessarily grow up to be sociopathic killers, some may actually turn out ok. I think we all would hope there is some mechanism to retrain the brain of those with such deviant behaviors as JM. However, his type behavior occurs globally, across countries and cultures which indicates hard wired disposition rather than acquired through improper development. Development in which deviance occurs due more to nurture than nature results in behaviors that are more likely to be altered. And these can still be challenge to alter. I think if we asked many psychologists who work with individuals like JM they would tell us the chance of altering their thinking and behavior patterns are likely nil with whatever interventions tried. But I do think there are many who develop abnormal patterns of thinking and behavior due to genetic disposition of the brain coupled with early development problems, like abusive and chaotic home environments, that do have a much better chance of turning out ok and sooner than later with good intervention.
 
I've thought Camblos will take the diminished mental capacity route all along. This bothers me:maddening:

Except he held a job, did volunteer work (coaching), got on to two separate colleges, lived on his own , etc. not sure diminished capacity would fly.
 
I hate vultures and I hate it that the dude who called it in wasn't more nosey.. Sigh

Maybe he was "more nosey" than we know. Perhaps he DID call it in and LE investigated, which led to the location of the remains. I think there is more to this than what has been released regarding both, the vulture story and the guy that found the remains. Neither of these publicized scenarios make sense to me and there have been multiple variations of the stories. Just my opinion, but I think there is a "protected witness" who led investigators to the remains based on some sort of observation. I am reminded of the case involving my relative, who came upon a murder victim and before she died she told my relative the names of the people that tortured and ultimately killed her. The case brought national attention and the media focused on my relative because he FOUND her, not knowing what she had told him. The squad people and LE led media (through interviews and public statements) to believe that she had reported the killers to THEM, although she was actually unconscious by the time they arrived. His testimony at trial was "the smoking gun" that resulted in Life Sentences for the murderers. I think we will only find out how all of this transpired at trial and statements made to or interpreted by media will not be completely accurate!
 
I've never really understood the bedwetting part, either.....the other two make sense in releasing pent up rage as a child and according to wiki, regaining a sense of power for the child that has been humiliated repeatedly and harshly, I'd imagine, by the parents. The only thing I can think of is a subconscious rebellion to an over controlling, micro managing parent but read on wikipedia where the bed wetting part has been discredited. I think most psychologists like Helen Morrison, who has interviewed and studied serial killers extensively believe that it is a perfect storm between heredity and environment that creates them. What all the factors are, I don't know but plan to look further into it.

I think old research revealed it as a statistical relationship.
 
Jmo I don't think anyone is saying police needs to tell the public about the steps in an investigation, i.e how they clear certain people, but I admit often wanting to know more about certain people who are tied in some way to a case and are cleared with no explanation. It is natural to wonder, Imo.
 
Good advice for normal offspring. For psychopaths such as JLM, it won't work. They don't understand love.

I understand given the fact JLM has been linked to three violent crimes by DNA, and accused of rape in at least 2 other cases, it might be quick to assume he is a psychopath. And perhaps he is.

But I think your statement is preemptive. We really do not know if JLM has done these things because of how his brain was when he was born, or because of severe emotional trauma in his life. All we can say with certainty is that for one to do those things to another human, they have the ability to dehumanized others, and lack empathy...which is at the root of the cause of "evil"....the second we stop looking at another human as just that.

But a psychopath is a quite specific diagnosis, that is the result of lots of evaluation, and the ruling out of other factors. Since I'm guessing you have not evaluated him, lets ease up on pigeon holing him into a specific type...because it limits our scope of understanding this case, and his motivations.
 
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