Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[4 Free Speech]

This is the map of Morgan and Hannah overlaid in Charlottesville. I haven't resized, so this is going to blow margins unless I thumbnail it, and that requires at least two photos ...

Thank you Otto!

 

[otto]

You and me both...

From my perspective, it's not a matter of: are there enough victims. but rather: how many are there?

 

[4 Free Speech]

LE can search anyone phone records just based on a phone #. They don't need the actual hardware, they can search anything from anyones cell.

 

[otto]

But where are we getting all that was left is BBM? just because that is all discovering trained LEO searching found. Experienced personnel were out there for a week following and may have found all manner of items. We just don't know. They may only be dealing with a skull and some other bones, including vertebrae. They have identifie those remains as hannah's. We have no clue what else they found regarding her murder.

The information about skull, vertebrae (for a tall person), and black leggings was released by the man that had an epiphany and felt compelled to look in the exact location where that skull lay. He also reported that he did not see hair, which prompted speculation that Morgan's hair was also missing. It wasn't. Her remains were first described as "blond hair" and 'probably those of Morgan Harrington'. It's possible that Hannah was farther upstream and due to heavy rains in the area, some remains washed downstream.

That the skull, the vertebrae and the leggings were all in one location suggests that she was murdered there, but that's so close to the road. The proximity to the road suggest more of a dump site. Why didn't he describe a complete skeleton that included arms? Her scalp may have been carried off by vultures for nesting ... it's possible.

 

[4 Free Speech]

I'll probably go to time out for this but, hey maybe I need one. I think it's relevant to Otto's question.

Updated with locations:
2000: 23-year old Hope Curry - Virginia Beach VA
2002: 20-year old La-Teasha LaMone Brooks - Farmville VA
2002: 33-year old Sharon Jones - Norfolk VA
2003: 19-year old Julie Marie Fraser - Norfolk VA
2003: 24-year old Autumn Wind Day - UVA Campus VA
2003: 39- year old Sophia May Rivera - Newport News VA
2005: 31-year old Vestora Leatrise Spriggs - Norfolk VA
2005: 34-year old Kathleen Hulderman - Chesapeake City, Virginia
2005: 26-year old assaulted - Fairfax County VA - 10/20/2104 JLM charged with attempted Capital Murder, Sexual Assault, Sexual Penetration with a foreign object (premeditated) FORENSIC LINKS TO MH
2007: 16-year old Ivonne Biviano - LaCrosse VA
2007: 36-year old Sereda McGlothin- Carrole County VA
2008: 29-year old Gracie MacCord - Spotsylvania County VA
2009: 17- year old Latonia Smith - Portsmouth VA
2009: 18 and 19-year old Heidi Childs & David Metzler - Lynchburg VA
2009: 23-year old Cassandra Morton - Lynchburg VA (body found one week prior to Morgan Harrington)
2009: 20-year-old Morgan Harrington - Charlottesville VA (google suspect photo) (body found)
(shirt found @ corner of 15th St & Grady Ave outside apt building) FORENSIC LINK TO 2005 CASE ABOVE.
2010: 19-year-old Samantha Clarke - Orange County VA
2010: 20-year old Arianna Davis - 20-year-old Henrico County - was last seen in the are of Masonic Lane
2011: 20-year-old Lauren Smith - Madison County VA
2012: 19-year-old Dashad Sage - Charlottesville VA
2012: 22-year-old Heather Hodge - Rock Mount VA
2013: 18-year-old Jamisha Gilbert - Lynchburg VA
2013: 18-year-old Alexis Murphy - Lynchburg VA
2013: 21-year-old Bethany Decker - Ashburn VA
2014: 17-year old Cindy Bonilla - Albemarle VA
2014: 18-year-old Hannah Graham (google suspect photo) - Charlottesville VA UVA - FORENSICS CONFIRM IT IS HANNAH.

RIP Hannah! Know that so many cared.........

 

[Heroine]

This is the map of Morgan and Hannah overlaid in Charlottesville. I haven't resized, so this is going to blow margins unless I thumbnail it, and that requires at least two photos ...

SOmebody should check in the 742 area. Looks like he just chose the next road over by glancing at the map. Everything with this guy just is all so nonchalant. Like oh hey I know this road let's go....hmmm....this way. Like it don't matter where he leaves a body.

 

[4 Free Speech]

Media consistently reports both findings as "a skull and bones". MH HG.

 

[jbowman55]

Since she was lost and a little out of it, JM may have asked her which friend to text so he can get directions to the party he's supposed to drop her at -- and then instead he sends that person the text about being lost at 14th and Wertland, and pockets the phone. He does this because he doesn't want anyone to know Hannah was at Tempo or even in that area. He figures after this "throw-off" text, the police will be checking surveillance and witnesses at 14th and Wertland after he does away with Hannah. If I were LE, I would look for the phone in the area of 14th and Wertland. If that text was a setup, he may have ditched it in that area specifically so it looks like she was abducted from that area, hoping nobody would even realize she'd been to the downtown mall at all that night.

P.S. I can just imagine him pretending to be texting back and forth getting directions while he's actually checking her last few texts sent and received, to see if she's told anyone she's in the downtown mall area... creepy thought.

This is great thinking, too. Look for the phone in the area of 14th and Wertland. But then, I wonder, surely the phone would have been picked up by a passer-by, because would not that area be inundated with students?

Wonder also, if LE does not have the phone, if they have considered offering a reward for its return? Perhaps they'd get it back if they did that. That is, if JM didn't destroy it or throw it into the lake at WCP.

Also, no telling what else they'd find if they put divers into the lake at WCP.

Changing the subject, I wonder if anyone has an opinion on why JM would choose to leave the two deceased victims we know about in the woods right at the time when hunting season is just about to begin or has already begun? My H is a bow hunter (whitetail deer) and tells me that bow season began on Oct 4 this year.

If JM was an outdoorsman, even if he didn't hunt himself, he'd be aware of the approximate times that hunting season was to start. Seems counterintuitive to leave murdered women outdoors at that time if you don't want them found right away.

I live a couple hours south of C'ville, in a rural area not unlike the area where Hannah was found. In back of the property I live on, there are hundreds of acres of forest, mostly uninhabited, but during hunting season there are people and dogs all through there. It is especially busy after gun season starts; I guess that's also when the dogs come into play.

Now that I think of all that, I can't imagine why someone's hunting dogs didn't find Morgan.

 

[klily444]

This is great thinking, too. Look for the phone in the area of 14th and Wertland. But then, I wonder, surely the phone would have been picked up by a passer-by, because would not that area be inundated with students?

Wonder also, if LE does not have the phone, if they have considered offering a reward for its return? Perhaps they'd get it back if they did that. That is, if JM didn't destroy it or throw it into the lake at WCP.

Also, no telling what else they'd find if they put divers into the lake at WCP.

Changing the subject, I wonder if anyone has an opinion on why JM would choose to leave the two deceased victims we know about in the woods right at the time when hunting season is just about to begin or has already begun? My H is a bow hunter (whitetail deer) and tells me that bow season began on Oct 4 this year.

If JM was an outdoorsman, even if he didn't hunt himself, he'd be aware of the approximate times that hunting season was to start. Seems counterintuitive to leave murdered women outdoors at that time if you don't want them found right away.

I live a couple hours south of C'ville, in a rural area not unlike the area where Hannah was found. In back of the property I live on, there are hundreds of acres of forest, mostly uninhabited, but during hunting season there are people and dogs all through there. It is especially busy after gun season starts; I guess that's also when the dogs come into play.

Now that I think of all that, I can't imagine why someone's hunting dogs didn't find Morgan.

Because Morgan was on private property, is my guess.

 

[otto]

But where are we getting all that was left is BBM? just because that is all discovering trained LEO searching found. Experienced personnel were out there for a week following and may have found all manner of items. We just don't know. They may only be dealing with a skull and some other bones, including vertebrae. They have identifie those remains as hannah's. We have no clue what else they found regarding her murder.

The information about skull, vertebrae (for a tall person), black leggings was released by the man that had an epiphany and felt compelled to look in the exact location where that skull lay. He also reported that he did not see hair, which prompted speculation that Morgan's hair was also missing. It wasn't. Her remains were first described as "blond hair" and 'probably those of Morgan Harrington'. It's possible that Hannah was farther upstream and due to heavy rains in the area, some remains washed downstream.

That the skull, the vertebrae and the leggings were all in one location suggests that she was murdered there, but that's so close to the road. The proximity to the road suggests more of a dump site. Why didn't he describe a complete skeleton that included arms? Her scalp may have been carried off by vultures for nesting ... it's possible.

 

[jbowman55]

Because Morgan was on private property, is my guess.

Dogs have no respect for private property. I know that from personal experience. The dogs run where the deer run, and then the hunters follow, especially when it's time to round up the dogs to go home.

These deer can clear barbed wire fences, too, without even hesitating.

 

[makista]

This is great thinking, too. Look for the phone in the area of 14th and Wertland. But then, I wonder, surely the phone would have been picked up by a passer-by, because would not that area be inundated with students?

Wonder also, if LE does not have the phone, if they have considered offering a reward for its return? Perhaps they'd get it back if they did that. That is, if JM didn't destroy it or throw it into the lake at WCP.

Also, no telling what else they'd find if they put divers into the lake at WCP.

Changing the subject, I wonder if anyone has an opinion on why JM would choose to leave the two deceased victims we know about in the woods right at the time when hunting season is just about to begin or has already begun? My H is a bow hunter (whitetail deer) and tells me that bow season began on Oct 4 this year.

If JM was an outdoorsman, even if he didn't hunt himself, he'd be aware of the approximate times that hunting season was to start. Seems counterintuitive to leave murdered women outdoors at that time if you don't want them found right away. They could have hung out for two weeks ( which I doubt.. but she wanted to go somewhere)

I live a couple hours south of C'ville, in a rural area not unlike the area where Hannah was found. In back of the property I live on, there are hundreds of acres of forest, mostly uninhabited, but during hunting season there are people and dogs all through there. It is especially busy after gun season starts; I guess that's also when the dogs come into play.

Now that I think of all that, I can't imagine why someone's hunting dogs didn't find Morgan.

She went missing Sept 13 and this guy phoned in on Sept 30. http://wtvr.com/2014/10/24/man-calls-hannah-graham-tip-line-after-sighting-20-30-buzzards/

We don't know if she died THAT night. Coyotes would have got to her before birds. JM called his work the next day and took the day off.. There is nothing to say she was alive until Sept 29th. That or he dumped her or could have hung out for two weeks ( which I doubt.. but she wanted to go somewhere and HE was the driver) LE impounded his car on the 22nd.

 

[otto]

This is great thinking, too. Look for the phone in the area of 14th and Wertland. But then, I wonder, surely the phone would have been picked up by a passer-by, because would not that area be inundated with students?

Wonder also, if LE does not have the phone, if they have considered offering a reward for its return? Perhaps they'd get it back if they did that. That is, if JM didn't destroy it or throw it into the lake at WCP.

Also, no telling what else they'd find if they put divers into the lake at WCP.

Changing the subject, I wonder if anyone has an opinion on why JM would choose to leave the two deceased victims we know about in the woods right at the time when hunting season is just about to begin or has already begun? My H is a bow hunter (whitetail deer) and tells me that bow season began on Oct 4 this year.

If JM was an outdoorsman, even if he didn't hunt himself, he'd be aware of the approximate times that hunting season was to start. Seems counterintuitive to leave murdered women outdoors at that time if you don't want them found right away.

I live a couple hours south of C'ville, in a rural area not unlike the area where Hannah was found. In back of the property I live on, there are hundreds of acres of forest, mostly uninhabited, but during hunting season there are people and dogs all through there. It is especially busy after gun season starts; I guess that's also when the dogs come into play.

Now that I think of all that, I can't imagine why someone's hunting dogs didn't find Morgan.

Murder is the first thought, getting rid of the body is the last thought. Morgan was aducted and left in a tall wheat field on October 17. She was found on January 26 the following year. Hannah went missing on September 13 and was found in a dry creek bed on October 18. I doubt either of those are likely hunting trails.

Animals are attracted to water, not dry creeks, so even during hunting season, it's not a likely spot. Morgan's body was left in tall grass, or wheat. She was not found until the grass was flattened by the snow, and he remains were almost skeletonized. Clearly they were not so skeletonized as to obscure DNA results ... that now match now only a rape in 2005, but a murder in 2009 and another murder in 2014.

 

[jbowman55]

She went missing Sept 13 and this guy phoned in on Sept 30. http://wtvr.com/2014/10/24/man-calls-hannah-graham-tip-line-after-sighting-20-30-buzzards/

We don't know if she died THAT night. He was off the next day..

No, we surely don't know that. The way all this has played out, we don't know exactly when either Morgan or Hannah died, since there was such a delay between the time they disappeared and the time they were found, and with the condition their remains were in when they were found.

JM took off for Texas sometime after the afternoon of Sept 20 but before the afternoon of Sept 22, which I believe is when he called a family member from Louisiana.

He could have killed Hannah anytime between Sept 13 and Sept 21, imo. With skeletonized remains, can the ME tell exactly when death occurred?

To tell you the truth, I have been concerned about the time that elapsed between when Hannah disappeared and when the witness saw the buzzards on Sept 30. It seems too long for Hannah to have died on Sept 13 and the buzzards finally show up on Sept 30.

Don't know if there's any way to reconstruct the times in reverse, going backward in time from the Sept 30 date when we know the buzzards were VERY active. Sept 20/21 timeframe makes more sense to me as a time of death, but that's just a hunch on my part.

From the beginning, though, I've had it in my head that JM moved her on that weekend, the weekend of Sept 20/21.

ETA: You are right about the coyotes, I believe.

 

[Meemaw12]

I'll probably go to time out for this but, hey maybe I need one. I think it's relevant to Otto's question.

Updated with locations:
2000: 23-year old Hope Curry - Virginia Beach VA
2002: 20-year old La-Teasha LaMone Brooks - Farmville VA
2002: 33-year old Sharon Jones - Norfolk VA
2003: 19-year old Julie Marie Fraser - Norfolk VA
2003: 24-year old Autumn Wind Day - UVA Campus VA
2003: 39- year old Sophia May Rivera - Newport News VA
2005: 31-year old Vestora Leatrise Spriggs - Norfolk VA
2005: 34-year old Kathleen Hulderman - Chesapeake City, Virginia
2005: 26-year old assaulted - Fairfax County VA - 10/20/2104 JLM charged with attempted Capital Murder, Sexual Assault, Sexual Penetration with a foreign object (premeditated) FORENSIC LINKS TO MH
2007: 16-year old Ivonne Biviano - LaCrosse VA
2007: 36-year old Sereda McGlothin- Carrole County VA
2008: 29-year old Gracie MacCord - Spotsylvania County VA
2009: 17- year old Latonia Smith - Portsmouth VA
2009: 18 and 19-year old Heidi Childs & David Metzler - Lynchburg VA
2009: 23-year old Cassandra Morton - Lynchburg VA (body found one week prior to Morgan Harrington)
2009: 20-year-old Morgan Harrington - Charlottesville VA (google suspect photo) (body found)
(shirt found @ corner of 15th St & Grady Ave outside apt building) FORENSIC LINK TO 2005 CASE ABOVE.
2010: 19-year-old Samantha Clarke - Orange County VA
2010: 20-year old Arianna Davis - 20-year-old Henrico County - was last seen in the are of Masonic Lane
2011: 20-year-old Lauren Smith - Madison County VA
2012: 19-year-old Dashad Sage - Charlottesville VA
2012: 22-year-old Heather Hodge - Rock Mount VA
2013: 18-year-old Jamisha Gilbert - Lynchburg VA
2013: 18-year-old Alexis Murphy - Lynchburg VA
2013: 21-year-old Bethany Decker - Ashburn VA
2014: 17-year old Cindy Bonilla - Albemarle VA
2014: 18-year-old Hannah Graham (google suspect photo) - Charlottesville VA UVA - FORENSICS CONFIRM IT IS HANNAH.

RIP Hannah! Know that so many cared.........

2003: 24-year old Autumn Wind Day - UVA Campus VA

Didn't Autumn disappear in Newport News, VA same as Sophia May Rivera?

 

[whiskers]

Bonnie Santiago needs to be added to this list. Missing from Carter's Mountain this past July of 2014.

 

[cluciano63]

There is a thread for other possible victims....

 

[jbowman55]

Birds. Hannah is the Bird Girl.

I lived in Savannah during the time when there was a lot of hoo-hah about "The Book," so I remember the Bird Girl, but I don't remember the story behind her. Can you explain your reference, please?

Seems that I do recall reading that this statue had to be moved out of Bonaventure because of the tourist traffic and worries of vandalism and damage.

 

[FindHG]

Homecoming at UVA marked by sadness over Hannah Graham
Bruce Johnson introduces and
Bruce Leshan reports "Tough on the field and tough in their hearts... Every one here love's Hannah."
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...coming-marked-sadness-hannah-graham/17917801/

Body of missing Virginia student Hannah Graham found; new charges likely
Reuters Oct. 25. '14 6:47 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...graham-remains-identified-20141024-story.html

Hannah Graham remains identified, what’s next for Jesse Matthew
Chelsea Rarrick reports 11:25 pm, Oct. 25, 2014 (legal steps & neighbors)
http://wtvr.com/2014/10/25/hannah-graham-remains-identified-whats-next-for-jesse-matthew/

Human Remains Are Missing Student Hannah Graham
(Updated 6:01am 26th October 2014)
http://www.klfm967.co.uk/news/world-news/1434390/human-remains-are-missing-student-hannah-graham/

The Latest Update On Hannah Graham
wavy's entire news team, Andy Fox and Liz Palka, Deanna LeBlanc reports, 'dig deeper' - October 25th, '14
http://videowaw.com/videos/the-latest-update-on-hannah-graham
http://wavy.com/category/news/hannah-graham-news/

 

[otto]

She went missing Sept 13 and this guy phoned in on Sept 30. http://wtvr.com/2014/10/24/man-calls-hannah-graham-tip-line-after-sighting-20-30-buzzards/

We don't know if she died THAT night. Coyotes would have got to her before birds. JM called his work the next day and took the day off.. There is nothing to say she was alive until Sept 29th. That or he dumped her or could have hung out for two weeks ( which I doubt.. but she wanted to go somewhere and HE was the driver) LE impounded his car on the 22nd.

There's nothing to say that she was not alive, captive in the abandoned property, until Sept 29.
Is that what you meant to say?

I had never considered that before, but given that there are two unattended houses, and if Jesse was not at work the next day, Hannah may have been alive for more than a day. She wouldn't have been alive after the man with dreads was identified on video as having honed in on Hannah and accosting her when she was lost. Wasn't the car/apt search warrant within a week, so I doubt that Hannah was alive two weeks later.

What day did he make a run for Texas, and what day were the vultures on sight? The smell of death is powerful, so I'm thinking that vultures would have been at her body within 6 hours.

Was Jesse scheduled to work on September 14 and he called it in, or he wasn't scheduled to word that day? Russell Williams spent many hours with his victims before he murdered them. He took victims from one location to another location as he continued to assault them. He left bodies in a third location.