Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[cluciano63]

I agree in thinking murder is not JLM's first thought. I think murder is the necessary means to cover up and "hide" the deed of rape.

Like the case I posted about last night, Sandy Jeffers, her killer said he thought of DNA right after the rape and knew he had to kill her. I guess DNA progress could be considered a "bad" thing in that type of situation...jmo

 

[themom]

He may have been quiet while he had a girlfriend. John List killed his wife, mother and children in 1971 and was finally caught in Richmond Va in 1989. He had been married for 4 years at the time

All Ive heard about JLMs girlfriend is that he recently broke up with her and the reason given his grandmother was that she wasnt Christian enough.

Id be interested to know how long they dated as it could figure into his profile.

What I heard was JM and said gf were together for 4 years.

 

[bakerlady]

The thing about the vultures/buzzards being seen in early October is perplexing to me. I thought it would be sooner especially considering the warm weather. But then I remember reading that it was a 'shallow grave' which to me implies some sort of burial had been attempted. There were some large rain storms which could have washed away the burial site.

Remains found buried in a shallow grave in a creek bed behind an abandoned property last weekend belong to missing University of Virginia student Hannah Graham, it has been confirmed.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ns-missing-college-student.html#ixzz3HGb2f1rd
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Vultures are very efficient. I found this article about a woman who was reduced to bone in less than an hour in France.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/06/woman-eaten-by-vultures-cliff_n_3224746.html

“There were only bones, clothes and shoes left on the ground,” Major Didier Pericou told The Times of London. "They took 45 to 50 minutes to eat the body." Adding, "When we first went out in the helicopter looking for the body, we saw numerous vultures without realizing what they were doing."

I also want to clear up that the 'red car' seen in the Alexis Murphy pics is not a car but part of a sign in the front window as confirmed by the FBI.

http://wtvr.com/2014/10/23/the-5-things-people-get-wrong-about-alexis-murphy-and-jesse-matthew/

The surveillance video from Liberty Gas Station the night Alexis Murphy disappeared shows her walking behind the back of an object some say looks like Jesse Matthew’s vehicle. It isn’t.

“FBI and Virginia State Police have re-examined that footage in light of these concerns and are confident that the orange object is not a vehicle, but a portion of a sign hanging from the window,” said Martin.

 

[LI-Mom]

I have a theory as to why vultures may have taken a few weeks to find Hannah. Hunting is not only for white tailed deer. Many family members of mine hunt and I know that as soon as they get a deer they gut it on site. I imagine that's done with other game too, it's important to empty the body cavity to not taint the meat. The guts are left in the woods. If there were a lot of guts around VA the vultures might have had plenty of food to go after. I don't know how far they travel for food, if anyone knows could you post it? I looked up hunting season in VA around the time of Hannah's disappearance and found these:


Urban Archery Deer Seasons
During this season only antlerless deer may be taken.

September 6 through October 3 and January 4, 2015 through March 29, 2015

Within the incorporated limits of the cities of Chesapeake (except on Department- owned lands), Colonial Heights, Danville, Emporia, Franklin, Fredericksburg, Galax, Hopewell, Lexington, Lynchburg, Martinsville, Radford, Richmond, Staunton, Suffolk, and Winchester; and in the towns of Altavista, Amherst, Bedford, Blacksburg, Blackstone, Christiansburg, Farmville, Halifax, Hurt, Independence, Irvington, Kenbridge, Pearisburg, Pulaski, Richlands, Rocky Mount, Saltville, Smithfield, Stuart, Tazewell, and West Point; and in the counties of Chesterfield, Fairfax, James City, Roanoke (except on National Forest and Department-owned lands), and York.

Elk
Elk of either sex, antlered or antlerless, may be taken during any open deer season using weapons legal for deer during that season, except that elk season is closed in the counties of Buchanan, Dickenson, and Wise.
The taking of an elk counts toward the hunter's daily and license year bag limit for deer.
Licenses, tag validation, and checking requirements for elk are the same as for deer.
It is unlawful to destroy the identity (sex) of any harvested elk until checked. Elk may be dismembered to pack it out from the place of kill. The identity of the sex and all parts of the carcass must be present when the elk is checked.

Elk Restoration
The Department has released a small number of elk in Buchanan County, part of a three-county elk restoration area comprised of Buchanan, Dickenson, and Wise counties. Elk hunting is not permitted within the three county elk restoration area.

Crow
Season:
August 16 through March 20 on Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays only.
September 3 through March 18 on National Forest Lands and Department lands on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays only.

Groundhog
Season:
Continuous open season on private lands.
Groundhog hunting on National Forest lands and Department lands is permitted from September 1-March 10 and during the spring turkey season.
Groundhog hunting is permitted during the spring squirrel season only on Department lands that are open for spring squirrel hunting.
Groundhog hunting is not permitted on National Forest lands during the spring squirrel season.


September Canada Goose
Season: September 1–September 25
Hunt Zone: Statewide
Hours:
East of I-95
September 1–16: One-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset. September 17–25: One-half hour before sunrise to sunset.
West of I-95
September 1–21: One-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset. September 22–25: One-half hour before sunrise to sunset.
Bag Limit: 10 per day, 30 in possession.
September Canada goose hunting is not permitted within the boundaries of the Amelia and Dick Cross Wildlife Management Areas.

Rails
Season: September 8–November 16

Gallinule and Moorhen
Season: September 8–November 16

Coyote
Season:
Continuous open season except on National Forest lands and Department lands. Coyote hunting on National Forest lands and Department lands is permitted from September 1 through March 10 and during the spring turkey season.

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/

 

[LI-Mom]

LE can search anyone phone records just based on a phone #. They don't need the actual hardware, they can search anything from anyones cell.

Including internet searches? Many a perp had evidence of internet searches used against them in court. I think they need the hardware for that though.

 

[bestill]

Regarding what JM told his grandmother (as reported in Daily Mail) I think this clearly shows his other persona. He broke up with his girlfriend "because she wasn't religious enough"...seriously? This is a guy that frequents the bars, breaks the law, has anger issues, stalks women and most likely rapes and kills them. Of course, he "only bought Hannah a drink" which led to him stealing his sisters car and becoming a fugitive of justice. I'm sure LE is paying close attention to the many facets of this guy. No remorse, no guilt - soulless.

 

[SteveP]

Upon rereading my last post, I see how it could be construed as me blaming his victims for fighting back. I want to make it clear I in no way blame them. Quite the contrary, all the blame is on him. I only wish anyone fighting back had been successful.

 

[StJohn]

Now that JM has been indicted on the Fairfax 2005 rape, does anyone here with a legal background know if a conviction could be brought up during trial in a future court case? I would think it would be difficult to convict JM in Morgan Harrington's murder unless evidence could be presented linking him to the Fairfax rape case. Convicting him in Hannah's case should be less difficult since he is caught on video with her and eyewitnesses saw him leaving with a severely impaired Hannah.

 

[Conductor71]

It's strange these neighbors would have seen vultures and smelled something at that time, just about two days before the remains were discovered. Mr. Pugh, the landscaper who called in his tip, has stated he saw "black vultures" on either September 30th or October 5th (he has changed his story several times) and black vultures are known to pick the bones clean. They also tend to follow turkey vultures to the source since black vultures have keen eyesight but a poor sense of smell. I don't know if the neighbor's story passes the smell test, no pun intended.

I think that "tip" was relayed through Coy Barefoot? I have posted this here several times, but after learning that he is close, personal friends with Chief Longo, I don't have a high regard for his articles being very fact based, but for some that may be just the smell test needed. JMO

 

[CvilleMother]

I think that "tip" was relayed through Coy Barefoot? I have posted this here several times, but after learning that he is close, personal friends with Chief Longo, I don't have a high regard for his articles being very fact based, but for some that may be just the smell test needed. JMO

I would be surprised if they are friends beyond the level of friendliness that occurs in a small town. However, I also wouldn't put much stock in the veracity of Coy's articles. I have known him for years, and have always found him to be far more focused on creating an interesting story to connect dots than on actually preserving the truth of the dots that are known.

 

[SweetT]

We will never know, but I really wonder with how many women and how often he ever had consensual sex. I get the sense that whenever he wanted sex, he determined he was going to have it, and probably killed those who put up a fight and resisted. By some reports I have read, it seems likely that Morgan put up a fight, and although she seemed almost totally incapacitated when leaving Tempo, by the time JLM was about to, or in the act of raping her, Hannah may have had enough cognition to mount at least some resistance. If we had any idea what the frequency of his sex life, we may have a better idea of whether there are others out there we do not know of yet. I am convinced there are. JMO

ETA...would also be interesting to know if he had rough sex or acted out rape fantasies with any willing partners.

I agree with a lot of this.. Which may be also why he wasn't concerned about cameras.. Maybe he thought he'd have a willing partner.. I also would like to hear from others who willingly slept with him however drunk etc they were.. Do you get to Stay alive if your willing?

 

[ILOKAL]

The thing about the vultures/buzzards being seen in early October is perplexing to me. I thought it would be sooner especially considering the warm weather. But then I remember reading that it was a 'shallow grave' which to me implies some sort of burial had been attempted. There were some large rain storms which could have washed away the burial site.



Vultures are very efficient. I found this article about a woman who was reduced to bone in less than an hour in France.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/06/woman-eaten-by-vultures-cliff_n_3224746.html



I also want to clear up that the 'red car' seen in the Alexis Murphy pics is not a car but part of a sign in the front window as confirmed by the FBI.

http://wtvr.com/2014/10/23/the-5-things-people-get-wrong-about-alexis-murphy-and-jesse-matthew/

I believe I have read that vultures wait until the body's gasses have been released before they begin devouring. The time it takes for that to occur varies greatly. IMO

 

[themom]

We will never know, but I really wonder with how many women and how often he ever had consensual sex. I get the sense that whenever he wanted sex, he determined he was going to have it, and probably killed those who put up a fight and resisted. By some reports I have read, it seems likely that Morgan put up a fight, and although she seemed almost totally incapacitated when leaving Tempo, by the time JLM was about to, or in the act of raping her, Hannah may have had enough cognition to mount at least some resistance. If we had any idea what the frequency of his sex life, we may have a better idea of whether there are others out there we do not know of yet. I am convinced there are. JMO

ETA...would also be interesting to know if he had rough sex or acted out rape fantasies with any willing partners.

I have read that rape is not about sex, but about power and control. I don't know that we can know anything about his violence cycle by looking at his normal sex life, assuming he had one.

 

[ILOKAL]

I think that "tip" was relayed through Coy Barefoot? I have posted this here several times, but after learning that he is close, personal friends with Chief Longo, I don't have a high regard for his articles being very fact based, but for some that may be just the smell test needed. JMO

No, Mr. Pugh (who witnessed the black viltures and called in the tip) has given many interviews to many people. Some were on video so we actually heard HIM! To be clear, you are saying Coy Barefoot is a close person friend of Chief Longo? Not that Mr. Pugh is a close personal friend. Correct?

 

[Elley Mae]

I agree with a lot of this.. Which may be also why he wasn't concerned about cameras.. Maybe he thought he'd have a willing partner.. I also would like to hear from others who willingly slept with him however drunk etc they were.. Do you get to Stay alive if your willing?

This, is what I have wondered as well. If there are are women out there that did take him up on a ride or what ever and lived to tell. It will be interesting to see who comes in to testify.

 

[memorialstadium]

I would be surprised if they are friends beyond the level of friendliness that occurs in a small town. However, I also wouldn't put much stock in the veracity of Coy's articles. I have known him for years, and have always found him to be far more focused on creating an interesting story to connect dots than on actually preserving the truth of the dots that are known.

Have any of his scoops been proven wrong? On the contrary, the address on Old Lynchburg and the details about the tipline were confirmed by other media.

 

[AL18Wood]

Not sure if anyone else has touched on this recently or whether my logic is relevant as I am unfamiliar with the immediate area surrounding 3913 Old Lynchburg Rd but here it goes:
I know its a sad/morbid/awful thing to have to wonder about, but were Hannah concious and trying to fight off JLMs attack, wouldn't her screaming have been audible at least once or twice during the attack? Are all neighbors so far from the location that her cries wouldn't have alarmed neighbors? In a quiet area I'd expect neighbors to notice as be alarmed be a female screaming. It's possible he could've used a gag or something but since we think he is an opportunist rather than planner what are the odds that he had something of the sort on hand? And if he had to cover her mouth with his hand, I bet it wouldve slipped during the attack at least a few times and allowed her to make some noise. This leads me to believe and hope that she wasnt concious or was minimally aware at best during the attack. Or that the attack occurred elsewhere but the same question would be present about why she wasnt heard and i also think it all took place in the same location...I

 

[SteveP]

I have read that rape is not about sex, but about power and control. I don't know that we can know anything about his violence cycle by looking at his normal sex life, assuming he had one.

Yeah, I know...that post of mine was probably stupid. I agree that rape is all about power and control. Maybe I assumed that he feels willing partners will give him that, and maybe some did. I guess I just can't get my head into the mindset of a rapist and killer...but for that, I am also grateful.

 

[observation]

Now that we know the remains are in fact, and unfortunately, Hannah Grahams, I am just hoping that a cause of death will be shared. It may come indirectly if he is further charged beyond the abduction with intent to defile but I really hope to get more information for us WS'ers to ponder in this case. In the press release shared the day it was confirmed to be Hannah it stated stated they were focused on the investigation and "preserving evidence."
Quote- Since the discovery along Old Lynchburg Road, officers and detectives have been working around the clock to process the scene and preserve evidence. Our focus is on the investigation and therefore, we will not be answering questions regarding the case or investigation.

 

[bestill]

Yeah, I know...that post of mine was probably stupid. I agree that rape is all about power and control. Maybe I assumed that he feels willing partners will give him that, and maybe some did. I guess I just can't get my head into the mindset of a rapist...but for that, I am also grateful.

SteveP, I don't understand it either. It will be interesting to hear from girls that have had a relationship with him. I don't know how you separate the two, a loving physical relationship with someone and also be a rapist and murderer. JM had boundary issues, evidenced by the encounters with folks in the bar the night Hannah went missing. I wonder if that night his frustration with being rejected was a trigger for him?