Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[Conductor71]

Does anyone know if the creek was dry for the entire time HG was missing? If it did swell or fill due to rain, how likely is it that she would have been completely or partly submerged?Is is a fairly stagnant creek or is there are any sort of current?

Also, curious as to why LE has not indicated if dental records were used to ID remains?

 

[Kaylas]

CNN with Wolf Blitzer- looking into cold cases that JM might be linked to. 5:50 PM
Began with Fairfax City case. Strong case against JM because the victim is still alive. Discussed DNA of JM that matched the rape kit from the victim in 2005. Former FBI said that JM's DNA may link him to other cases, such as MH. That was pretty much all the report was.

 

[Kaylas]

Does anyone know if the creek was dry for the entire time HG was missing? If it did swell or fill due to rain, how likely is it that she would have been completely or partly submerged?Is is a fairly stagnant creek or is there are any sort of current?

Also, curious as to why LE has not indicated if dental records were used to ID remains?

Dental records...... The Medical Examiner in Richmond is the place to seek answers about dental records. I'm curious about those too! The parents would have been told much sooner if dental records were used.

 

[Foxfire]

Here is report that Coy did about his source (and afaik only did one report in writing, did 2nd report yesterday on Wolf's show on CNN)

http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-where-hannah-was-found/

EXCLUSIVE: WHERE HANNAH WAS FOUND
POSTED ON OCT 19, 2014

Another source with whom I have spoken just this morning, confirms that on Sunday October 5, a long-time resident of Albemarle County drove by this residence and noticed an unusual flurry of buzzards behind the home.
Earlier the following morning, Monday October 6, this same man stopped his car at this residence and looked around. The buzzards had gone. This man knew the home to be a rental that was not currently lived in.
He walked the property, but only briefly since he felt odd that he was trespassing. He got back in his car and left.
Later that same morning, at exactly 9:45am October 6, he called the tip line, reported the address— 3193 Old Lynchburg Road— and said he’d noticed the buzzards. He also reported that he was concerned the property had not yet been adequately searched since the home was not currently lived in.

and that folks is all I got. Like I said earlier, it really doesn't matter, tips were called in, they were missed or not followed up on. But at the end of the day Hannah was found, and I believe after some down time LE went back and looked at all the tips (I remember they had some down time) and when Chesterfield LE came to volunteer they went to the area and found this precious child.

I certainly won't Monday morning quarterback anyone in this case. Thankful tips were called in and thankful LE found Hannah.

<Respectfully sniped & BBM for Focus>

Thank you very much for sharing this info, Meemaw12..
I honor and respect your opinion/s.. I am also very grateful that aware citizens reported these critical tips, but respectfully disagree concerning Monday morning quarterbacking. The lack of following up on critical tips is a common occurrence in missing/murdered persons investigations. Especially in high profile cases with high volumes of tips, such as this one.. Due to the sheer high volume of tips, there are usually two other reasons for the failure to follow up on critical tips in a timely manner. One concerns the prioritization of the tips, and the other is appointing inexperienced investigative personnel to receive the incoming tips..
This weak link of the investigative chain occurs in virtually every M/M investigation that I have researched since the 1989 Rodgers family abduction in FL. In that case Billboards were first used to garner public tips. Many tips came in, but as new tips were received, the critical tip went farther down in the stack..
Finally, the aware, yet frustrated citizen that provided the tip went to task force headquarters and demanded action. Case solved..


http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/7892

1998 &#8212; Feature Writing

Angels and Demons
Sunset - Chapter 1
By: Thomas French

One year had gone by since the murders, and then another, and now the investigators were deep into a third. They were working day and night, working weekends, putting off vacations, losing weight, gaining weight, growing pale and pasty and haggard, waking at 3 a.m. with a jolt and scratching notes on pads beside their beds. Their sergeant did not know if they would ever find the answer. As far as he was concerned, the case was not even in their hands.

Ultimately, he believed, it was up to God whether they made an arrest..

"I believe there are demons all around us," he would say, "just as I believe there are angels all around us."

And when he looked at the evidence from the case before them now, studied the photos of the bodies and the ropes and the concrete blocks, the sergeant had no doubt that he and the other investigators were pursuing someone driven by Satanic forces.

Of course demons were real. They were hunting one now.

 

[CatchingClues]

Ya know Maggots will tell the story for LE regarding the remains if any were still there. such as how long body was there.

Sad to write that but they can test the stages of the Maggot and tell. I found a lot out about decomp during the Westerfield case, more than I ever wanted to know. 1st comes blow fly, they lay eggs, then larvae comes, then the maggots, then the birds, insects. Happens pretty quick if environment is right. ALL JMO going from memory.

Will they be able to tell from the skeletal remains how long a person has been deceased?

 

[Hiandmighty]

When do you think her remains will be released to the family? Any news about a memorial service?

Also, daily mail had a story today about decomp (not related to HG)... Ill see if I can find a link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2811142/The-chemistry-DEATH-Watch-gruesome-chemical-processes-place-inside-body-die.html

 

[Concerned Mama]

Ya know Maggots will tell the story for LE regarding the remains if any were still there. such as how long body was there.

Sad to write that but they can test the stages of the Maggot and tell. I found a lot out about decomp during the Westerfield case, more than I ever wanted to know. 1st comes blow fly, they lay eggs, then larvae comes, then the maggots, then the birds, insects. Happens pretty quick if environment is right. ALL JMO going from memory.

bbm
Well, given what we know about the multitude of vultures at the property, I'd assume any maggots would have been consumed along with any remaining flesh on the skeleton. :sick:

 

[SolVol]

FYI
They are going to talk about JM possible link to cold cases on Wolf Blitzer...
I am really missing the old CourtTV and now they are drowning us in endless episodes of Forensic Files...sigh.

Link to Video: http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/...ilding-against-graham-suspect/?iref=allsearch

 

[MzOpinion8d]

A stun gun drops a person to the ground because it completely incapacitates them. As soon as the voltage is off, they're basically able to move as usual, only maybe a bit sluggish. They don't need assistance to walk, though. It's far more probable that she was drugged.

(Source: I'm a nurse in a jail and have to examine patients after being tasered.)

I'm lol at my poor sentence structure that makes it sound like I'm the one who was tasered and then I have to examine patients my bosses are mean!! Lol

 

[Conductor71]

I copy and pasted this from a closed thread. It was posted on 10-15-14 by Slicky Boy. Here is link to original #495

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Graham-The-Search-4&p=11092339#post11092339

For those of you who really like puzzles. His post leaves even more questions...

The police are working with tunnel vision relevant to their "suspect"; the key to locating Hannah is to correlate the same topographical aberrations associated with MH's drop site. For example, the double ''x" pattern, the "Fat F*g" spelling (relevant to MH's 'Unicorns) and other oddities of the sites patterns. LE is looking but they still don't see the game pieces the killer left for them. This includes the MH "letter" to Let. Rader referencing DO THE RIGHT THANG... LE has a cultural tendency to discount information they subjectively deem useless when it is more relevant than they know. Sometimes, sources will trust reporters before they'll confide in police. Why? Because we listen to everything and make objective connections.

 

[Jmoose]

Why would he be racially profiled? They had his DNA. How is that racial? Simply trying to understand.

They can determine the race of the person who left the DNA sample, even if they cannot determine to whom it actually belongs.

 

[Hiandmighty]

But what does it mean???

I copy and pasted this from a closed thread. It was posted on 10-15-14 by Slicky Boy. Here is link to original #495

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Graham-The-Search-4&p=11092339#post11092339

For those of you who really like puzzles. His post leaves even more questions...

The police are working with tunnel vision relevant to their "suspect"; the key to locating Hannah is to correlate the same topographical aberrations associated with MH's drop site. For example, the double ''x" pattern, the "Fat F*g" spelling (relevant to MH's 'Unicorns) and other oddities of the sites patterns. LE is looking but they still don't see the game pieces the killer left for them. This includes the MH "letter" to Let. Rader referencing DO THE RIGHT THANG... LE has a cultural tendency to discount information they subjectively deem useless when it is more relevant than they know. Sometimes, sources will trust reporters before they'll confide in police. Why? Because we listen to everything and make objective connections.

 

[Ollie]

personally, I think this is total BS; JM is no rocket scientist just your run of the mill psychopath/SK. Slicky Boy wants to make everyone think he is a genius with his double X ,unicorn and site patterns .LE and FBI have done amazing work ;victim found and identified,suspect in custody and a multitude of charges pending. While our reporter gathers info on what others think.

 

[SteveP]

Pretty much all the discussion today seems to be centered around the difference in buzzards and vultures, and whether one or two people called in tips about them, and whether LE dropped the ball in failing to follow through on the tip or tips in a timely fashion. I will address the last part first. IMO, we can't know whether the tip or tips were appropriately prioritized or not, because we are not privy to the tips LE were receiving. They were getting very many tips a day, even during the slowdown, and while you or I may think that somebody calling in a bunch of vultures in a tree at an abandoned house might be highest priority, someone else may have called in a tip that they were pretty sure they were behind JLM in line at Walgreens the day after Hannah went missing, and he was buying Benadryl because he told the clerk he had been camping in xxxx over the weekend and got eaten up by mosquitos. (THIS IS ONLY A HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE) Many would say that tip would most likely take priority over buzzards in a tree. A bunch of buzzards on the ground behind the abandoned house eating something big, yes. A bunch of buzzards in a tree? I see them more than once a week around where I live, and we don't have anyone missing that I am aware of. I do think that when the second tip about buzzards at the same house came in, if in fact it did, then I do believe the tip got bumped up to a higher priority, as well it should have. Other than they would have found her sooner, which I am sure we all wish had happened, I don't think the delay in finding her because someone may have dropped the ball on following up on a tip ultimately matters too much in what was found. If the buzzards (or vultures) were just hanging around in the tree or on the roof, they had most certainly already picked her remains clean. Nobody reported seeing them on the ground. As to the second topic of the day, whether there was one tipster or two, I think this has been talked about enough without me adding my two cents worth. To the other topic of the day, buzzards vs vultures, around here you pretty much see buzzards on the roadsides, in woods and in fields (Did you see those buzzards pick that deer carcass clean the other morning?), and you pretty much see vultures in WalMart ( Did you see those vultures fighting over that last $149 tv on Black Friday?). All JMO

ETA...I do know that heavy rains came between the supposed time of the first tip coming in and the time she was found, and they could have washed away some evidence, but they also could have uncovered some hidden evidence as well. The gist of my post remains the same.

 

[Meemaw12]

Will they be able to tell from the skeletal remains how long a person has been deceased?

I honestly don't remember if they can or not. Found this:

http://www.forensic-medecine.info/forensic-anthropology.html

They are able to approximate when the individual died. The amount of soft tissue that is still present is the key to determining time of death, although weathering cracks on bones (from winter) or animal/rodent bites can also be used.

Females lose one pound of tissue a day during decomposition; males three pounds a day. Acidic soil accelerates decomposition; alkaline soil retards it. Most of these are class characteristics (such as age, sex, race, and height), but some are individual characteristics (such as trauma). Courts would probably never rely independently on forensic anthropological identification.

 

[Jmm124567]

Obviously we do not know exactly where JLM car was parked, but I sort of have a hunch LE does, and has some visual, either eyewitness or cameras...

I'm pretty sure there is a parking garage not far from where Tempo is on Water street....

I do not really buy the "ill give you a ride story" no matter what her state to a total stranger....I feel she must have somehow felt he was familiar and safe.....obviously until it was too late. I just think she would have only agreed to hang out with, go to tempo, or wait for him outside, and leave with him...was if she was somehow aquatinted...even just seeing him around...

Anyway I don't see how he just new her that night, I don't get how even as a former cab driver, he would have pulled a cabi line on Hannah....and it would have worked....why would a cabi bring her for a drink....who would take a ride from a cabi who was drinking? I know he'd offe girls rides when he was a cab driver....but I just don't see the cabi thing coming up at all here. I also do not think he would have said I just need to make one stop first...though I agree she could have passed out on her own very quickly after getting in the car.

Part of the reason this doesn't make sense to me...is because the easy easy route he could have take from the downtown mall....follow market to Ridge, take a left, follow Ridge which changes names but eventually turns into old lynchburg road....within seconds, he would have been driving through a sleeping residential area....and then onto a dark country road. It wouldn't have been more then a matter of minutes before he was out of sight of any possible witness....it is also not in the direction of UVA campus at all...which would have kept them in more populated area, more nightlife, and a higher chance of being seen.

That parking garage on Water St. closes at 1:00am.

Like you I do wonder if HG and JM knew each other. I find it weird she would walk off with a total stranger who comes up to her and puts his arm around her. He has his arm around her when they go to Tempo AND when they leave. Weird. Its likely HG has been in the UVA medical center because she was apparently interested in health and medicine. JM works there and its possible she met him. Maybe he asked her out to have a drink but what leads me to think this is not true is you would think she would call him and tell him to come pick her up in his car unless JM does not have a cell phone. Do we know if JM has a cell phone? Its also possible that they knew each other and just randomly ran into each other at the mall that night. If they did know each other I think it is more likely they just randomly ran into each other that night because police are saying that she was texting her friends. It sounds like she was suppose to meet some friends somewhere but got lost.

 

[tlcya]

Even if JM is linked by some familial relation to a convicted serial rapist, which we cannot sleuth anyway, what has that to do with Hannah's remains being found? I am lost

 

[ksj3]

Very interesting.
Since we can't sleuth relatives, can we create a Nathan Washington Serial Rapist thread? Then we can do our research there?

You will see in the Other Victims Thread (or maybe on the timeline?) there is some question as to whether or not JM is the perp for some of the victims the Charlottesville Rapist was not convicted for, that they think/thought were perpetrated by him and are therefore listed in articles regarding the Charlottesville rapist.

 

[ILOKAL]

That parking garage on Water St. closes at 1:00am.

Like you I do wonder if HG and JM knew each other. I find it weird she would walk off with a total stranger who comes up to her and puts his arm around her. He has his arm around her when they go to Tempo AND when they leave. Weird. Its likely HG has been in the UVA medical center because she was apparently interested in health and medicine. JM works there and its possible she met him. Maybe he asked her out to have a drink but what leads me to think this is not true is you would think she would call him and tell him to come pick her up in his car unless JM does not have a cell phone. Do we know if JM has a cell phone? Its also possible that they knew each other and just randomly ran into each other at the mall that night. If they did know each other I think it is more likely they just randomly ran into each other that night because police are saying that she was texting her friends. It sounds like she was suppose to meet some friends somewhere but got lost.

There is a photo of JLM with a cell phone to his ear. It actually looks like a selfie. I saw it yesterday but I don't remember where.

 

[Auburnlucky7]

It's possible JM told HG he was going to the same party she was trying to get to and she was comfortable enough with that to go with him; but first let's have one more drink before we go. JM used information he was able to get from HG and use it to his advantage. It wouldn't have been difficult if she was lost. Just a theory of mine, and moo.
p.s. I appreciate everyone's comments an brainstorming.