Hannah Graham: The Search - #3

[FindHG]

I swear I think he has a hidey-hole where he keeps victims alive for a while after he's abducted them. Think about it.

There is no way to say, in relation to any of these potential victims who have been killed, exactly when they died, since either they haven't been located at all, or if they have, it's been so long and the remains are so degraded, that the exact date and time of death can't be determined. There is no reason, in my mind, to think that he goes through (whatever his scenario is) quickly.

This is horrible to say, and I hope none of the victims' family members ever read it, but here goes: whereas most times the experts say that rape is about power rather than sex, I think with JM it's actually about power AND sex. I think he is a sex addict, among other aberrant things. And if that's true, why go through all the risk and turmoil of procuring a source for what you desperately want and need, only to throw it away again immediately?

Gil said that the authorities told her that MH had been in that field since shortly after she was abducted. I cannot for the life of me believe that they can know that MH wasn't kept alive for at least a few days after she was abducted, after that long a time.

I have felt from the beginning, or very nearly the beginning, that HG was located in more than one place over the days right after she disappeared. This first occurred to me when JM reacted so strongly to being followed by LE, after that Saturday he showed up at the PD. Trying to think that situation through, I think he freaked out because he had "things" to do yet, and he couldn't do them with LE following him every move he made. Further on that train of thought, I think that might be when he wound things up and actually disposed of HG as part of preparing to get the H*ll out of Dodge.

If there's any way this scenario could have happened, then he'd had to have had a location in which to keep captive a person who very much wanted to get loose and run. He'd also have had to have room to "maneuver." Omg.

Anyway, this is what my gut tells me. Feedback, anyone?

I have thought of this too. I can't tell if it's due to wishful thinking that she could possibly be alive or if the fact that Morgan was found in an open field is somehow a different scenario. I wonder if Morgan was able to escape from wherever he had her but wasn't strong enough to make it to safety. Of course if he did have her somewhere, 4 weeks is a long time. I don't know what kind of chamber he could have rigged up but certainly his friends from childhood and adult life would have a better idea. JMO obviously.

Agreed.

 

[FindHG]

Think my speculation applies to this question, too...at least, my perception of JM's mental process and "procedure" as it relates to your question.

Do you think some will put 2 and 2 together from what they remember of him? Maybe have ideas about where he may have this place? His hidey hole, as you mentioned above, not cause he told them or anything about it, but he may have invited them along for a hike, or to just hang out there. He sounds like he had very few friendships that would reach the level of confidentiality, if any.

 

[SolVol]

Hidey holes near town and farther out from Charlottesville might include:
Abandoned mines
Wells
Underground moonshine stills (someone mentioned these exist)
Caves
Old cars, vans, trucks, trailers, RVs abandoned on farms and parts places
Old outbuildings, barns, sheds on institution-owned property without residences
Old abandoned ruins of homes with root cellars, smoke and spring houses
Empty trailer/mobile homes used by migrant workers in summer
Sewer lines and sewer plants not frequently inspected
Marijuana growing operation field shed
Empty office building or big box store
Old land fill sites
Rock or fill-dirt quarries
Boat or boat house on river
Slaughter house, abattoir (to hide odors)
Hog farm (think Virginia hams) would also hide odors

 

[jbowman55]

Do you think some will put 2 and 2 together from what they remember of him. Maybe have ideas about where he may have this place? His hidey hole, as you mentioned above, not cause he told them or anything about it, but he may have invited them along for a hike, or to just hang out there. He sounds like he had very few friendships that would reach the level of confidentiality, if any.

It probably would have given him a large charge, though, to show "his place" to others without actually telling them what they were seeing. He'd like having that secret.

I am in this guy's head 'way too far this morning. I'm scaring myself.

 

[jbowman55]

Hidey holes near town and farther out from Charlottesville might include:
Abandoned mines
Wells
Underground moonshine stills (someone mentioned these exist)
Caves
Old cars, vans, trucks, RVs abandoned on farms and parts places
Old outbuildings, barns, sheds on institution-owned property without residences
Old abandoned ruins of homes with root cellars, smoke and spring houses
Empty trailer/mobile homes used by migrant workers in summer
Sewer lines and sewer plants not frequently inspected
Marijuana growing operation field shed
Empty office building or big box store
Old land fill sites
Rock or fill-dirt quarries

Dang, I'm impressed!

 

[SolVol]

Dang, I'm impressed!

You experienced WebSleuths can probably think of more places JLM might hide HG, and possibly other victims.

 

[jbowman55]

Let me know, if you think of anything that can help the search on this thread please.

The only other thing I have to add right at the moment is that I've thought for several weeks now that he kept her for some period of time in a camper trailer. I mentioned this one other time, but it wasn't really well discussed.

Having talked all about him not being all that inventive and intelligent, I wonder if he perhaps would have copied his infamous neighbor to the south, who was just convicted of having done grievous harm to AM in his camper trailer.

I think he might even have figured out that he could keep HG quiet and invisible if he put her in the storage compartment underneath the largest bed in a camper trailer.

Did those two know each other? Who knows? I do think that McDonald's in Lovingston is the closest fast food joint to the Red Hill area. Can't imagine that JM doesn't indulge in a burger and a milkshake from time to time.

ETA: The other thing that may add to the question of whether they knew each other...is that if they'd ever been in the same room with each other, I have no doubt that the antennae would have gone up, they'd have recognized each other as kindred spirits, and they'd be off to the races. Jmo of course. I'm sure there's no "science" to support it, but my oh my, I am so sure that it's true. People subconsciously recognize their own kind.

 

[themom]

Do you think some will put 2 and 2 together from what they remember of him? Maybe have ideas about where he may have this place? His hidey hole, as you mentioned above, not cause he told them or anything about it, but he may have invited them along for a hike, or to just hang out there. He sounds like he had very few friendships that would reach the level of confidentiality, if any.

Do you think his girlfriend of 4 years would have insight on a spot? I don't know enough about serial rapists and killers to know if the ones who had spouses or gfs would bring their SO to a spot or be into a certain fetish that could give clues...or do these types truly lead 2 distinct lives?

 

[margarita25]

Hidey holes near town and farther out from Charlottesville might include:
Abandoned mines
Wells
Underground moonshine stills (someone mentioned these exist)
Caves
Old cars, vans, trucks, trailers, RVs abandoned on farms and parts places
Old outbuildings, barns, sheds on institution-owned property without residences
Old abandoned ruins of homes with root cellars, smoke and spring houses
Empty trailer/mobile homes used by migrant workers in summer
Sewer lines and sewer plants not frequently inspected
Marijuana growing operation field shed
Empty office building or big box store
Old land fill sites
Rock or fill-dirt quarries
Boat or boat house on river

Good stuff...again, very reminiscent of posts/thoughts re: our search for AM...

I could have sworn I came across some underground barracks during AM's search...

Question, how "handy" was this guy (carpentry, construction, etc). Any specific trades (other than taxi driving, nursing, and abducting women) he was involved in? Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

 

[SolVol]

Good stuff...again, very reminiscent of posts/thoughts re: our search for AM...

I could have sworn I came across some underground barracks during AM's search...

Question, how "handy" was this guy (carpentry, construction, etc). Any specific trades (other than taxi driving, nursing, and abducting women) he was involved in? Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Another thought - can he operate heavy machinery and do any his relatives own a gravel or fill dirt pit, dump truck, back hoe?

 

[ksj3]

If there's any way this scenario could have happened, then he'd had to have had a location in which to keep captive a person who very much wanted to get loose and run. He'd also have had to have room to "maneuver." Omg.

Anyway, this is what my gut tells me. Feedback, anyone?

There was discussion earlier that SKs/SRs revisit the bodies of their victims, to continue to abuse them postmortem. It may be as simple as that.

Given the condition the Fairfax woman was in after mere moments, if JM is her perp, I really don't think they lived long after he got his hands on them.

But his need to be with them probably exists. Perhaps even a desire to move them. That's why I wondered what his activity was like from the time the video was first released to the public that he would have known was video of him until LE started tailing him (presumably 9/19 or 9/20). Unless they were tailing him before the search warrant, but obviously that didn't help if they were.

 

[margarita25]

Jumping of y'alls posts re: the hideyhole, etc, and working this backwards, if this is possible, what would be the estimated distance and direction based on awareness space, etc? I would guess 22-25 minutes (maybe more, ugh) in the opposite direction of his residence...so, triangulating his work, residence...jmo

 

[SolVol]

One of my favorite Southern mystery writers, Virginia Lanier, (whose heroine was a blood hound search and rescuer) had her perpetrator hide a victim in a buried tank or metal truck cargo trailer...or something like that - with a hatch that was open but hidden. Wouldn't be hard to cover up a tank or trailer on a Virginia hill-side.

 

[ksj3]

It probably would have given him a large charge, though, to show "his place" to others without actually telling them what they were seeing. He'd like having that secret.

I am in this guy's head 'way too far this morning. I'm scaring myself.

And THAT is why LE needs to talk to anyone who has had anything to do with him, regardless of how little. He told someone undoubtedly, that someone just might not realize it.

I spoke with a woman out of the blue the other day whose mother had had JM be the one to take her in a wheelchair out to her car when she was released from the hospital. He talked about his pitbull.

The poor pitiful pitbull. Did you guys see that picture somewhere? He looks sad himself.

Wouldn't surprise me if there's not dog fighting in these parts. I know there's chicken fighting.

 

[margarita25]

There was mention of the Crabtree Falls area by a local iirc in AM's thread...I'm trying to remember why that location was mentioned...

I started a Search Thread for Alexis, going to look back through it:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?220282-Alexis-Murphy-Search-Discussion-Possible-Locations-of-Interest

 

[margarita25]

And THAT is why LE needs to talk to anyone who has had anything to do with him, regardless of how little. He told someone undoubtedly, that someone just might not realize it.

I spoke with a woman out of the blue the other day whose mother had had JM be the one to take her in a wheelchair out to her car when she was released from the hospital. He talked about his pitbull.

The poor pitiful pitbull. Did you guys see that picture somewhere? He looks sad himself.

Wouldn't surprise me if there's not dog fighting in these parts. I know there's chicken fighting.

Ugh...

but you may be on to something. Where and when did he get his poor dog? If he was involved in dogfighting, maybe his dumping ground is somewhere close to where dogfights are held? I know these locations can be extremely secretive and remote. In Louisiana they are out in the "boonies"/woods...

 

[FindHG]

Good stuff...again, very reminiscent of posts/thoughts re: our search for AM...

I could have sworn I came across some underground barracks during AM's search...

Question, how "handy" was this guy (carpentry, construction, etc). Any specific trades (other than taxi driving, nursing, and abducting women) he was involved in? Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

I don't know if this helps, but a person who knew him post that they had an impression of him as not one to get his hands dirty with hard work. Mostly supported by his family until he drove a taxi. His trespassing charge was for an oil change he was unsatisfied with and complained aggressively. My impression of the interview reported about the incident was that he didn't understand the oil change wouldn't fix the car's problem. An oil change is the easiest thing you can do yourself to maintain a car, and he wouldn't couldn't go there in this case. I don't know if it helps, but he doesn't strike me as handy. I imagine he spent most of his time figuring out how to get them there.

 

[jbowman55]

The last post I typed has never shown up. Not sure what I did wrong.

 

[margarita25]

His grandmother might know more than she thinks she knows...he might have let something slip at one time, or given a clue inadvertently which might only seem significant in hindsight...

 

[jbowman55]

Another thought - can he operate heavy machinery and do any his relatives own a gravel or fill dirt pit, dump truck, back hoe?

Someone here on WS the other day stated that they'd seen a truck labeled "(modsnip) Excavating" near C'ville, but couldn't find a telephone listing for the business. (modsnip) And there's a quarry at Red Hill.