Hannah Graham: The Search - #3

[margarita25]

SBM

I just don't think he was that patient.

This is a great point too, I think.

 

[Foxfire]

There is not a more private setting for a serial killer to dispose of a body at night than a rural church cemetery, imo. Good Jesse was very religious, imo. There is likely a religious connection to the aftermath of his kills as indicated by the large cedar tree<not a coincidence, imo> where MH's remains were located. Religious rituals after death are common among some experienced, escalated sexual predators/serial killers, imo..

FBI-Photo Gallery
https://www.google.com/search?q=Pho...gan-harrington-killer%2Fphoto-gallery;645;429

 

[margarita25]

There is not a more private setting for a serial killer to dispose of a body at night than a rural church cemetery, imo. Good Jesse was very religious, imo. There is likely a religious connection to the aftermath of his kills as indicated by the large cedar tree<not a coincidence, imo> where MH's remains were located. Religious rituals after death are common among some experienced, escalated sexual predators/serial killers, imo..

FBI-Photo Gallery
https://www.google.com/search?q=Pho...gan-harrington-killer%2Fphoto-gallery;645;429

(Again, thinking of Jamisha Gilbert---technically O/T, and "case closed")

 

[human]

:thud:

Gary Ridgway, known as the most prolific serial killer in US history, dumped some of his victims in Milton. Not only that, he lived in an area of Auburn, where he also dumped many of his victims, that would commonly be thought of as Milton. It's a weird little area with Auburn addresses, but really isn't part of Auburn proper.

Now looking at the area I was interested in off 250W, not only do I see a Milton Rd., but also an area called Auburn Hill Farm. What are the odds that JM was trying to beat the best by using an area that had the same names as the "best" serial killer? Do I need a tin foil hat here?

Btw, Ridgway dumped some of his victims in the Green River, hence giving him the name the Green River Killer. The Rivana is right there too. anic:

Sounds good.

The only thing I wonder about is how he knew all of this stuff.

He reportedly had to have help with reading so I imagine he was not a reader.

However,it is interesting he liked the Spots.....page beause that certainly would involve reading .

Does anyone else know what he had on his FB?

Someone said gambling and Brightwood.

With this type of personality, I can see gambling being a problem.

I heard a famous athlete years ago being interviewed on TV. He had list everything because og gambling,

They asked him who can afford to gamble. He said, " No one".

Why was he moving out of the apartment?

I can't see him having a lot of disposable income because of spending money at bars snd possibly on gambling.

He has a debit card, probably not credit.

I would think the funds for purchasing gas are limited.

I think he had a spot in mind for his next victim.

HG was presented to him. There is no way he knew where his next victim could come from, so I think the 8 miles has to come from a different focal point.

It seems like he moved around a lot, so I wonder what that point is.

 

[Piaget]

Obviously there could have been more victims during that time period-- that just means that he not only had the time to plan, but also had experience on his side as well.

 

[FindHG]

One thing we can be pretty sure of is that JM had five years after MH was found to imagine his next crime and to think about where he would leave his next victim. That's time to scope out, plan and even prepare a hiding place. While he might be impulsive and opportunistic in his victim selection, I suspect he was deliberate and well prepared for an efficient aftermath.

Completely agree. The catching of his prey, predator that he was, may have been opportune and roughly timed. Except for Morgan Harrington and Cassandra Morton, all the other missing young women who could potentially be his victims, nothing ever found. He may have, if it proves that there's a connection, left Cassandra Morton at Liberty out of spite, yet so for ahead enough in the future that there would be no conceivable connection back to him. That may have shown persistence, planning, and a cold patient vindication on his part.

 

[Foxfire]

Foxfire, you are the serial killer expert here...what do you think about all of this in a nutshell? (Disposal distance, sites, technique, etc).

Tia

Not sure anyone is an expert on serial killers, margarita25.. Their so dam* cagey hiding behind their evil mask of normalcy. Guess you missed my opinion a few pages back, margarita25;

Quote Originally Posted by FindHG View Post
briefed respectfully

I have no idea if this information is credible, but I recall a while back in a thread a person mentioning that LE had his phone records and that he'd killed it soon after leaving the Tempo area. Again, you may find it in the thread, but it sounded like good info to me.

Seems logical that if investigators have a last ping location of JM's cell phone. This would give them an indicator of JM's probable direction of travel and would have alleviated the need to do the radius searches. Due to JM's experience, escalation, lessons learned, and dependent upon the window of time that JM spent with HM in captivity. HG's remains may be located as far as 25 to 60 miles away.

Experienced escalated sexual predators/serial killers learn from theirs as well as other's mistakes...
An experienced escalated sexual predator/serial killer in GA that I have diligently researched disposed of his last abduction victim over 60 miles away from the abduction site; Herbert Reese hiking trail(AT) Blood Mtn., GA. She was decapitated and disposed of in two different locations of Dawson Forest State Park WMA... In an attempt to destroy forensics, Bleach was poured over her torso and it was disposed of near a swamp due to water attracting animals/scavengers.. The head was placed in a white trash bag and buried under a fallen tree over a half mile away and 200 yards up a ridge on a food plot trail.

The emulator serial killer; Gary M. Hilton; the forest killer, was a collector as was T Bundy..jmo

 

[margarita25]

Question for you guys: Do you think the location where JM potentially assaulted and killed Hannah is definitely a completely different location from where he might have left her? tia

 

[4MYGUYS]

Hiking around some of these areas, I can't help but suspiciously eye all of the rocky lined ravines, and some manmade drainage ravines. They are natural areas already deep enough to dispose of a body pretty easily and then cover it with rocks. Not much prep work, not much covering work. Also an easy place to return to, something I think is important to him.
If you have ever had to dig into this soil it is often pretty difficult and rocky, and the time it would take and the energy to complete this task would be great. These are areas that are usually heavily wooded also. That's where I would look. (Which would be still monumental. I am in awe of the LE and searchers).
Margarita: No I think the sites are the same, attack and disposal.

 

[margarita25]

We don't seem to know what time he got home, do we?

I'm sooooo glad you reminded me of this, this was THE LAST THOUGHT I remember having last night before I went to sleep. If we could confirm what time we knew he came back that night/morning, and additionally if/when he left afterwards, this would definitely help us figure out if he traveled far away, or not so far away, to dispose of her.

What do have as far as a timeline for this? Anything? TIA

 

[shmoo]

One thing we can be pretty sure of is that JM had five years after MH was found to imagine his next crime and to think about where he would leave his next victim. That's time to scope out, plan and even prepare a hiding place. While he might be impulsive and opportunistic in his victim selection, I suspect he was deliberate and well prepared for an efficient aftermath.

I think this is right, and that there were no murders between MH and Hannah Graham. JM must have known about the DNA link between MH and the Fairfax rape, and also that the sketch of the rapist/murderer looked a lot like him. That would have made him very cautious about committing another rape/murder and getting caught. But at the same time he was probably thinking about and planning his next crime. When Hannah Graham--the perfect victim--crossed his path, he lost a little of his caution and let himself be seen with her on the Downtown Mall and at Tempo bar. But everything after that first encounter was carefully planned, and that's the main reason why the search has turned up empty to date. JMO.

 

[SteveP]

I may be completely wrong, (I often am), but I just don't see JM as someone who spent a lot of time planning how to dispose of his victims. I think he spent most of his time thinking about what he was going to do with them once he had them alive, and that is what drove him to go on his prowls. I think everything he did after that was just flying by the seat of his pants. With his vast knowledge of the area, and being an outdoorsman, he most likely would have known of and easily gotten to countless places to dump a body that would keep his secret well, barring a purely coincidental find by a hunter stumbling through. I just don't see him as someone who thinks beyond the moment, and I think it has been luck that has been on his side, not intelligence and great planning. As always, JMO, and I do respect differing opinions.

 

[distracted]

Ok, here's another thought:
(so much for my map tutorial---see how bad my ADD is, lol)

JM seems to me to be an impulsive type of killer, as opposed to one who maybe plans/stalks his particular victims well in advance. (For example, MH seemed to be a "crime of opportunity", as potentially HG was, and maybe his prior sexual assault victims.)

With that being said, would his disposal sites be equally as impulsive (less organized)? (And therefore easier to find?)

I think it's possible his disposal sites might be equally unorganized, although I think she's close and the site was preplanned even though his victims seem to be a crime of opportunity. If this is a once a year occurrence for him, generally in the fall, he has the rest of the year to plan.

Caylee Anthony was found so close to her home and she was missed during the searches. I don't think Hannah is inside the city limits but I don't think she's that far outside them either. If we knew when he was first sighted on Saturday, we would have a better idea about how far he could go. He didn't show up for his football practice but I don't think we know much more than that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[margarita25]

Hiking around some of these areas, I can't help but suspiciously eye all of the rocky lined ravines, and some manmade drainage ravines. They are natural areas already deep enough to dispose of a body pretty easily and then cover it with rocks. Not much prep work, not much covering work. Also an easy place to return to, something I think is important to him.
If you have ever had to dig into this soil it is often pretty difficult and rocky, and the time it would take and the energy to complete this task would be great. These are areas that are usually heavily wooded also. That's where I would look. (Which would be still monumental. I am in awe of the LE and searchers).

I was juuuuuust thinking this!!!!

 

[distracted]

I'm sooooo glad you reminded me of this, this was THE LAST THOUGHT I remember having last night before I went to sleep. If we could confirm what time we knew he came back that night/morning, and additionally if/when he left afterwards, this would definitely help us figure out if he traveled far away, or not so far away, to dispose of her.

What do have as far as a timeline for this? Anything? TIA

Will you get out of my head? haha We are posting the same things!

 

[Foxfire]

Question for you guys: Do you think the location where JM potentially assaulted and killed Hannah is definitely a completely different location from where he might have left her? tia

If my memory is correct, there was a full moon when HG was abducted. JM's safe haven seemed to be the outdoors/forest. Just a guess, but to prevent additional exposure and chance of being witnessed. Imo, the assault location and body disposal location was one and the same or in an adjacent area..
Wish we knew more about JM's outdoor activities/hobbies. We know that he was a fisherman. Was he a hunter?

 

[jbowman55]

Sorry, I hadn't seen your information before. Thanks so much for your help. I think this perp is rubbing off on me, because I'm brazenly going to ask you one more thing. It would seem the quarry area in Buckingham located between Rts 60 and 15 has the advantage of multiple approaches. That would make him less remarkable to police going back and forth. Can you tell me more about the various roads between c-ville and Buckingham, please. Thank you.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Buc...86f096c38b74fc!2m2!1d-78.4766781!2d38.0293059

Howardsville Turnpike, which turns into Howardsville Rd.

I've mentioned Howardsville several times, probably the most remote-seeming place I've ever been in my life. It's where my friend and I stayed in a cottage a couple of times, and is about halfway between Hwy 29/Lovingston to the west and Hwy 60 and 15/Sprouse's Corner to the east. It could very well be that you could drive the entire length of that road at 3 am and never pass another car.

I keep coming back to think about this area, because it keeps coming up in the conversation of others here on WS, because it's fairly close to where JM grew up, and most likely because it's the only part of that area that I've really spent any time in.

But it is so remote. So remote and quiet, and there would be SO much privacy.

 

[margarita25]

BBM:

I think this is right, and that there were no murders between MH and Hannah Graham. JM must have known about the DNA link between MH and the Fairfax rape, and also that the sketch of the rapist/murderer looked a lot like him. That would have made him very cautious about committing another rape/murder and getting caught. But at the same time he was probably thinking about and planning his next crime. When Hannah Graham--the perfect victim--crossed his path, he lost a little of his caution and let himself be seen with her on the Downtown Mall and at Tempo bar. But everything after that first encounter was carefully planned, and that's the main reason why the search has turned up empty to date. JMO.

I think this is a good point, that the discovery of MH, the dna, the sketch might have made him extra cautious and perhaps slowed him down some, but I think that due to his impulsiveness and urges that he seems to not be able to control, I do not think he lay dormant as a predator for that long. jmo

I remember reading the other night about DC in the Houston Mass Murders who, after a short period of time, would literally start getting physical symptoms, aching and longing for a new victim, like one a phoening for a drug.

 

[margarita25]

You know, so much great input here, especially by locals as far as specific areas, down to specific streets, etc!

With all that being said (and I mentioned this in Jessica Heeringa's case), what good is all of this brainstorming if nobody (LE/searchers) actually physically checks these places out? I guess what I'm trying to say is, I wish I knew LE was reading here and could follow up on these ideas...I know its a lot, though, so many potential areas. Also, I know we can email tips in, but there are so many ideas, and these are not exactly tips that have any actual evidence behind them, so its hard to know which ones to send in (I guess we could compile a list, or better yet, just copy this whole thread with the posts highlighted, lol and send it in)...kwim?

eta: here's an exmaple of one of many posts I wish LE could/would read:

Howardsville Turnpike, which turns into Howardsville Rd.

I've mentioned Howardsville several times, probably the most remote-seeming place I've ever been in my life. It's where my friend and I stayed in a cottage a couple of times, and is about halfway between Hwy 29/Lovingston to the west and Hwy 60 and 15/Sprouse's Corner to the east. It could very well be that you could drive the entire length of that road at 3 am and never pass another car.

I keep coming back to think about this area, because it keeps coming up in the conversation of others here on WS, because it's fairly close to where JM grew up, and most likely because it's the only part of that area that I've really spent any time in.

But it is so remote. So remote and quiet, and there would be SO much privacy.

 

[Foxfire]

BBM:



I think this is a good point, that the discovery of MH, the dna, the sketch might have made him extra cautious and perhaps slowed him down some, but I think that due to his impulsiveness and urges that he seems to not be able to control, I do not think he lay dormant as a predator for that long. jmo

I remember reading the other night about DC in the Houston Mass Murders who, after a short period of time, would literally start getting physical symptoms, aching and longing for a new victim, like one a phoening for a drug.

I agree, margarita25. I liken it to quitting smoking. Once you start back, you will smoke twice as much in an attempt to make up for lost time. Once a serial killer crosses the threshold from fantasy to dark reality. It then becomes an addiction... jmo