Hannah Graham: The Search - #4

[goldenbear]

Here is a screen shot of all the cell towers....from Charlottesville to 30 miles south at Lovingston along Rte 29 corridore.

If LE has JLM's ping on once cell phone tower, then it transfers to another tower, that would mean he was somewhere along the red lines that I drew in. If he crossed that pass-off line, then one could reasonably figure the direction of route based on any roads that cross that line. (There is some variation in strength of the tower and terrain where one cell tower might be higher than the other). But the point is, if he was dumb enough to leave his cell phone on wherever he took her, then LE will find the area...no doubt.. It tremendously narrows from the spots where it switched from one tower to the next). Doesn't give us the exact spot, but looking at that infomation, versus the roads where the signal switched to the next tower, will no doubt, catch this monster. Like I said, if LE has all the ping data from the cell towers AND JLM had his phone on in the early hours of that morning, they are going to catch their guy.

View attachment 61272

there are not many towers it should be a good search job.

 

[goldenbear]

Here is a screen shot of all the cell towers....from Charlottesville to 30 miles south at Lovingston along Rte 29 corridore.

If LE has JLM's ping on once cell phone tower, then it transfers to another tower, that would mean he was somewhere along the red lines that I drew in. If he crossed that pass-off line, then one could reasonably figure the direction of route based on any roads that cross that line. (There is some variation in strength of the tower and terrain where one cell tower might be higher than the other). But the point is, if he was dumb enough to leave his cell phone on wherever he took her, then LE will find the area...no doubt.. It tremendously narrows from the spots where it switched from one tower to the next). Doesn't give us the exact spot, but looking at that infomation, versus the roads where the signal switched to the next tower, will no doubt, catch this monster. Like I said, if LE has all the ping data from the cell towers AND JLM had his phone on in the early hours of that morning, they are going to catch their guy.

View attachment 61272

there are not many towers it should be a good search job.

 

[ksj3]

Here is a screen shot of all the cell towers....from Charlottesville to 30 miles south at Lovingston along Rte 29 corridore.

If LE has JLM's ping on once cell phone tower, then it transfers to another tower, that would mean he was somewhere along the red lines that I drew in. If he crossed that pass-off line, then one could reasonably figure the direction of route based on any roads that cross that line. (There is some variation in strength of the tower and terrain where one cell tower might be higher than the other). But the point is, if he was dumb enough to leave his cell phone on wherever he took her, then LE will find the area...no doubt.. It tremendously narrows from the spots where it switched from one tower to the next). Doesn't give us the exact spot, but looking at that infomation, versus the roads where the signal switched to the next tower, will no doubt, catch this monster. Like I said, if LE has all the ping data from the cell towers AND JLM had his phone on in the early hours of that morning, they are going to catch their guy.

View attachment 61272

Here's how sarx explained things to me on tower dumps, which causes a problem with rural searches: In urban areas, the towers (from which the cell phones ping) are everywhere, making it easier to narrow down a small area where that phone might have been located. Once you hit the rural areas, the towers are fewer and farther between, so instead of getting a 300-ft. radius for the phone location, you may only get a 3-mile radius. As sarx said, three miles doesn't seem that big, "but when you look at that in square miles it's like 28 square miles. That's a LOT of ground to cover."

So, these pings are going to be helpful, but won't get them to within yards or even necessarily miles of where he was when it pinged.

Posted with mod permission, paraphrasing sarx's explanation in the SAR thread, post #284.

 

[Rayemonde]

https://m.facebook.com/NBC29/posts/10152444710613753

I dont know if this has been seen or even allowed on WS but a supposed psychic on the FHG fb page said this cross was part of black magic and is making HG invisible to LE he also said it has to do with the envelope and cross found in JMs sister Nissan in Texas...I dont know if I believe or not. Wouldnt the PD have cameras?

If this is not allowed please delete it. Just found it interesting

High profile cases always attract so-called "psychics" looking for attention. The cross found in the car was from a piece of junk-mail, so if the 'psychic' couldn't sense that then they're not a very good psychic. There's also no evidence that "black magic" has anything to do with Hannah's disappearance.
JMO

 

[wall0214]

A random thought - based on the section of photos that show the unoccupied farm building, faint tire track lines, and the proximity to where MH was found. Is it possible that the unoccupied farm building was used by JM to assault MH, then she escaped and fled on foot and JM caught up to her where her remains were found? Perhaps he ran her over with his car, or violently murdered her because she fled and he was worried she would get away? If so, then I fear he may have learned from his mistakes and I worry that he drugged HG almost immediately so that she wouldn't have been able to fight back and/or flee. Perhaps the unoccupied buildings are where the search for HG should focus, and not necessarily just outdoor wooded areas. JMO, of course.

With the imagery, we don't exactly know when they were taken - some of the images show a date of 2007 and others have 2009 - I don't know enough about Google Earth to know if you can pull historical imagery??? The point being, we don't know when those tracks were made. While the building/house next to the tracks may have been unoccupied, I would think it would have been very risky to drive through the field (unless he had his lights off) because the large house off of Waldemar - if he had his lights on, he certainly would have risked being seen by someone in the large house as they would know there's not a drive/path there. I know it's been discussed, but I can't remember what the moonlight was like on the night Morgan disappeared - would there have been enough light for JM to drive through the field without his lights on? I find it unlikely that JM would have known the movements/whereabouts of all of the surrounding neighbors on that night. I don't know if the cops would have searched that building since it was widely discussed that the perp very likely entered Anchorage Farm from the back side due to the risk of going past the houses on Anchorage Farm.

 

[Justice101]

Yep.

I'm in your corner with this one.

 

[Justice101]

High profile cases always attract so-called "psychics" looking for attention. The cross found in the car was from a piece of junk-mail, so if the 'psychic' couldn't sense that then they're not a very good psychic. There's also no evidence that "black magic" has anything to do with Hannah's disappearance.
JMO

1000% yes

 

[Justice101]

Here's how sarx explained things to me on tower dumps, which causes a problem with rural searches: In urban areas, the towers (from which the cell phones ping) are everywhere, making it easier to narrow down a small area where that phone might have been located. Once you hit the rural areas, the towers are fewer and farther between, so instead of getting a 300-ft. radius for the phone location, you may only get a 3-mile radius. As sarx said, three miles doesn't seem that big, "but when you look at that in square miles it's like 28 square miles. That's a LOT of ground to cover."

So, these pings are going to be helpful, but won't get them to within yards or even necessarily miles of where he was when it pinged.

Posted with mod permission, paraphrasing sarx's explanation in the SAR thread, post #284.

Yes. Let's look at real world, alkthough completely ficticious example: Let's say they get a switch from Tower A (north) to Tower B (south) at say 2:38 AM. By drawing lines, they know that the ping was on Tower A (to the north) for the previous 28 minutes...and BEFORE THAT... it was at Tower J (which is 10 miles north of Tower A)...so , by assuming the person drove down Rte 29 at 60 mph, they would switch towers at any point along that line. Now, if it ever switches back to B, then LE knows they went back north again... so you can see looking at that map that you could find a road (at 30 mph speed), that would approximate where the car was when it switched cell towers. I

bottom line, if you had a meter that showed you which tower you were pinging, and the strength of that signal, and you were lucky enough to get a switchover to another tower... you could pretty well use logic and the numbers to really narrow it down from 100 square miles to maybe 10 sq miles.

 

[wall0214]

With the imagery, we don't exactly know when they were taken - some of the images show a date of 2007 and others have 2009 - I don't know enough about Google Earth to know if you can pull historical imagery??? The point being, we don't know when those tracks were made. While the building/house next to the tracks may have been unoccupied, I would think it would have been very risky to drive through the field (unless he had his lights off) because the large house off of Waldemar - if he had his lights on, he certainly would have risked being seen by someone in the large house as they would know there's not a drive/path there. I know it's been discussed, but I can't remember what the moonlight was like on the night Morgan disappeared - would there have been enough light for JM to drive through the field without his lights on? I find it unlikely that JM would have known the movements/whereabouts of all of the surrounding neighbors on that night. I don't know if the cops would have searched that building since it was widely discussed that the perp very likely entered Anchorage Farm from the back side due to the risk of going past the houses on Anchorage Farm.

I just looked on Google Earth and you can view historical images - those "tracks" can be seen in the 2007 imagery, but not the 2009.

 

[hambirg]

Reading up on it now and getting very interesting in deed....all in all I may have to agree with the "pyschic" on this one. [emoji102]

I think that "psychic" should keep his/her day job.

To me it looks like a cross of St. David. Does anyone know if Hannah's family has Welsh origins? OR is could just be some nice person who happened to have black tag board and yellow paint, nothing more.

As far as the search, I've always felt that Hannah's phone likely went into the river near the mall. I believe that area was searched early on and wondered if perhaps her phone was tracked there. As far as JM's phone, I hope he was operationg under the arrogance that he wouldn't need to worry about his phone and carried it with him un-disabled. If that's the case, it should help immensly but I think it can still be difficult. They searched like h*ll for the cell phones in Baby Lisa Irwin's case and never found them.

 

[hambirg]

I just looked on Google Earth and you can view historical images - those "tracks" can be seen in the 2007 imagery, but not the 2009.

I don't know if anyone was implying those tracks were from the night Hannah went missing, but that it is possible to drive back there and had been driven on at some point by someone.

 

[wall0214]

I just looked on Google Earth and you can view historical images - those "tracks" can be seen in the 2007 imagery, but not the 2009.

Same with Albemarle County's GIS mapping - the tracks are in the 2007 imagery and not 2009.

 

[Justice101]

So, last post on this... see how if they know where a handoff happened (in this ficticious scenario), they can really narrow it down from a huge area, to a reasonable area.... All the areas with color strokes in it, are NOT possible locations....since it would have switched towers if the perpetrator had gone further... Now, you just go look for the roads in that area. Clear as mud??? LOL

 

[MomnVA]

https://twitter.com/NBC29/status/522100170964893696
JUST IN: police tell @HenryGraff search for #HannahGraham will resume Thursday after regrouping and inclement weather delayed efforts.

 

[ksj3]

bottom line, if you had a meter that showed you which tower you were pinging, and the strength of that signal, and you were lucky enough to get a switchover to another tower... you could pretty well use logic and the numbers to really narrow it down from 100 square miles to maybe 10 sq miles.

snipped

How does that play in out here, though, when calls are often "dropped" and there are "dead zones" with no reception? Does that affect pinging in any way, or just calls/texts?

 

[human]

How would all this cell phone ping activity be affected by the fact that this is a remote area with terrible cell reception? I'll mention Howardsville yet again - it's farther away from the 29 corridor, but the cell reception there was basically nonexistent. I'm basing this on personal experience, but granted, the last time I was there was 2012. More towers could have been installed since then, I suppose.

Ironically, it could be that the BEST place for cell reception in the immediate area would be on the top of a ridge. It does seem to me, when driving through hilly areas, that sometimes one can pick up a signal on the top of the ridge even if at no other time. I say ironically, because in that area, imo and from what I can tell from Google Maps, the more remote you get, the higher the elevation. Which might mean that his phone wouldn't have pinged at all if he had stayed in a valley, but it probably would have from the top of a ridge or from an area that's closer to the highway.

Where I live in another state, the cell tower is on a little mountain.

I cannot get reception on my cheap phone but my kids get it because they have expensive phones.

My son said cuz we are kind of in a valley and land formations and trees get in the way.

Why a more expensive phone works is beyond me.

I had a cheaper work phone and my son added something to it to make it work via his work phone.

Cell phones are a mystery to me, but I bet on top of a ridge would be better.

I just cannot see him spending the money on an expensive phone.

 

[Justice101]

snipped

How does that play in out here, though, when calls are often "dropped" and there are "dead zones" with no reception? Does that affect pinging in any way, or just calls/texts?

Very good point. That happens a lot in Virginia due to the terrain... so I would simply be guessing. Not sure.

 

[Justice101]

So, last post on this... see how if they know where a handoff happened (in this ficticious scenario), they can really narrow it down from a huge area, to a reasonable area.... All the areas with color strokes in it, are NOT possible locations....since it would have switched towers if the perpetrator had gone further... Now, you just go look for the roads in that area. Clear as mud??? LOL

View attachment 61281

This is one of the reasons I think the statement that the "ping" came from the other side of the hill... is just not possible. Cannot get a ping on a spot... just that you are within cell tower A and B's range.

 

[ksj3]

This is one of the reasons I think the statement that the "ping" came from the other side of the hill... is just not possible. Cannot get a ping on a spot... just that you are within cell tower A and B's range.

Would LE have access to pings with or without possession of the phone itself, assuming they know the phone number? (I ask because we don't know if they are in possession of JM's phone, do we? I think we all assume they are but...boy.... And Hannah's phone has yet to be found. Would they be able to get her pings, if the phone was pinging?)

 

[Heroine]

Would LE have access to pings with or without possession of the phone itself, assuming they know the phone number? (I ask because we don't know if they are in possession of JM's phone, do we? I think we all assume they are but...boy.... And Hannah's phone has yet to be found. Would they be able to get her pings, if the phone was pinging?)

I'm not sure as I am not that savvy with these kind of things, but I don't think a phone will ping if it has no batteries/ if the phone were dead. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.