Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[jamicat]

I think LE intentionally put out the bald/short hair description because they didn't really need to identify him at that time. They knew who he was and were likely watching him. They didn't want him to cut his dreads! We don't learn about the man with dreads description until after he takes off on the 20th. . .when LE really does need the public to be on the look out for him.

MOO

Umm. I don't think so. It makes no sense. The video was released very shortly after the description. WG came to the LE when the word came out about Hannah being missing but before the tapes were released. He gave the description from memory--who knows what his condition was that night and he was not focusing on JM. He must have felt foolsih when he saw the tapes.

LE had to have JM under the radar before he came to the police station. They tracked down his car to his apartment and certainly to his ownership, served him with a warrent, searched and seized the car, searched the apt , confiscated his cell phone. His ID was not released by LE because there were no charges on him. He was just a POI. The Daily Mail, a tabloid was what released his name, not LE. They were not at all even focused on JM, just the car that night they searched and seized it. He and his roommates left the area and LE there didn't even really know when. No one was really keeping an eye out on them.

 

[jamicat]

I also wonder if HG's friends were aware of someone HG was intending to meet up with? They didn't worry about the fact she didn't show up on Saturday and then again on Sunday because they thought she was with that person?

My understanding is that LE did not think Hannah was heading towards the mall. She got turned around in direction is what they say they think happened. Hannah was in touch with them for a while via phone, and LE has spoken extensively with her friends and fellow partygoers from taht night. The consensus seems to be that she was just completely lost and mixed up, as well as drunk by the time she reached the mall ,not where she wanted to end up.

 

[jamicat]

If you look at the street view on Google maps, it looks to me that it would have been impossible for HG not to see that she was going in the wrong direction--there look to be very large landmarks that were missing in the direction she was headed. I can see where being extremely intoxicated you might not be able to comprehend your surroundings, but if she was able to text, I think she was able to see which way she was going. I believe the streets crossing Preston are numbered streets, so that would have given her some guidance that she was headed the wrong way. She veered off of Preston and headed to McGrady's, and then turned around and went towards downtown. She might not have known about McGrady's, but I also find that hard to believe--it is so close to where she lives. It's all such a mystery. I'm pretty sure LE knows there was more to the Mall trip, but that would give JM a story if that info was to be released.

LE seems to be sure that she was turned around, the exact opposite way she wanted to go. I've had it happen, so it's believable to me. You don't really pay attention just going by rote, and then suddenly you realize you are in a totally strange area. That she was intoxicated added to that befuddlement I'm sure.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I have read earlier on these HG forums about a possible "typo" in HG's message, i.e., she might have meant that she was "almost at 14th & Wertland."

This theory makes sense to me and I hope LE follows through on the possibility of a typo in the transmission because it could mean that HG was still functioning normally at that point.

I have to wonder if possibly HG was made suddenly incapacitated (perhaps accepting some drink or drug w/o knowing what the substance was or the intent of the person who provided the substance)) between the time of that transmission and her later appearing incapacitated on security videos).

Any ideas?

TIA.

Do you think there's any chance she intended to type 4th and Water? She mistyped the 4th for some reason, and the autofill/suggestion of "Wertland" came up when she went to type "Water"? She may well have had 14th & Wertland as a saved address in her phone.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

My understanding is that LE did not think Hannah was heading towards the mall. She got turned around in direction is what they say they think happened. Hannah was in touch with them for a while via phone, and LE has spoken extensively with her friends and fellow partygoers from taht night. The consensus seems to be that she was just completely lost and mixed up, as well as drunk by the time she reached the mall ,not where she wanted to end up.

That's what LE says, but how do we know that as true, and not some diversionary tactic?

 

[jamicat]

How did LE know that Hannah got into JM's car? They were sure enough that happened to get a search warrent for the car. They have stated (maybe to keep things under wraps) that the last anyone saw Hannah in person or on tape, was outside of Tempos. So how did they know she got into THAT car?

Maybe the dog scent ended right where that car was parked? Why was LE fixated on that car even before the person, before questioning JM?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Okay, this is from the Daily Mail (9/18/2014), so to be taken with a grain of salt, but this is why I think LE planted the description based on the prior sketch of suspect associated w/MH and 2005 rape to rattle JLM. (Longo admitted to a reporter during press conference Q&A that LE had already considered similarities w/MH case on 9/18.)

.................................

Police have not yet released surveillance footage of the person of interest, but did release footage of the witness who followed her.

<snip>

Film taken from two separate cameras shows the witness pursue the 18-year-old through the mall area shortly after 1am.

<snip>

Late last night investigators said the man in the video presented himself at Charlottesville Police Department (CPD).

He had also called the dedicated tip-line offering information about Hannah, officers have said.

The man, who has not been identified, told police he had followed Hannah as she appeared ‘physically distressed’ and wanted to make sure she was safe. According to the police, he said he saw another man stop Hannah and put his arm around her.

The man, who he described as black, is not captured in any of the video footage - but police have released a description of him.

Police have issued a statement to say the black man shown walking with Hannah Graham in video footage released by police has been ruled out of their missing persons inquiry.

The man, seen in the video who has dreadlocks and is wearing three-quarter length trousers, has already been interviewed by detectives.

A spokesman for Charlottesville Police Department said: ‘We already know who the black man in the video is and he has spoken with officers. ‘He has been ruled out of the inquiry.

‘He has nothing to do with Hannah’s disappearance.’

Police have however released a description of a different black man seen with Hannah that they are desperately trying to trace.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wed-stumbled-deserted-mall.html#ixzz3F07nyFo6

Hmmm...just had a really crazy thought about that first description. What if the bald guy was someone HG was intending to meet up with?

 

[mts202]

I think LE intentionally put out the bald/short hair description because they didn't really need to identify him at that time. They knew who he was and were likely watching him. They didn't want him to cut his dreads! We don't learn about the man with dreads description until after he takes off on the 20th. . .when LE really does need the public to be on the look out for him.

MOO

That was my thinking early on as well. I also think they didn't get their hands on him earlier hoping he would lead them to her. I pray daily they will find her.

 

[jamicat]

That's what LE says, but how do we know that as true, and not some diversionary tactic?

Anything is possible, but what kind of diversionary tactic? What difference could it possibly make whether she was headed to the mall or not? She was in contact with friends during that time until phone died. Why would LE say something contrary to what UVA students would know when it really has no bearing on the important issue fo where she ended up going after she left Tempo with JM What happened then? How do they know she got into that car?

 

[jamicat]

That was my thinking early on as well. I also think they didn't get their hands on him earlier hoping he would lead them to her. I pray daily they will find her.

In these cases, time is of the essence. Makes no sense that LE knew JM was the last person seen with her and didn't request to talk to him. At that stage, you simply do not fool around. It was (and still is) entirely possible that JM took here somewhere and left her off alive. Or that she jumped out of the car or he just left her (again still alive) after she did not respond to his advances. Happens all of the time. YOu want to find the girl in case she is hurt, lost, lying in a ditch incapacitated, but possibly alive. As the time ticks on, the chances of that diminish. There is no reason to play coy at that time with JM who they didn't even have enough on to arrest. They should have simply wanted to talk to him as they did with every single other person they saw that night Really, anything could have happened. JM could have taken her home and then passed out leaving her with some other guys. He had been drinking too. LE would want to talk to him, not pretend they didn't know who he was.

 

[jamicat]

Hmmm...just had a really crazy thought about that first description. What if the bald guy was someone HG was intending to meet up with?

Doubt it. The tapes are pretty clear as to what happened. Everything matches what WG says, except the descrip And eye witness descriptions are often way off. He wasn't focused on JM. And he might not have been sober either.

 

[hambirg]

Umm. I don't think so. It makes no sense. The video was released very shortly after the description. WG came to the LE when the word came out about Hannah being missing but before the tapes were released. He gave the description from memory--who knows what his condition was that night and he was not focusing on JM. He must have felt foolsih when he saw the tapes.

LE had to have JM under the radar before he came to the police station. They tracked down his car to his apartment and certainly to his ownership, served him with a warrent, searched and seized the car, searched the apt , confiscated his cell phone. His ID was not released by LE because there were no charges on him. He was just a POI. The Daily Mail, a tabloid was what released his name, not LE. They were not at all even focused on JM, just the car that night they searched and seized it. He and his roommates left the area and LE there didn't even really know when. No one was really keeping an eye out on them.

BBM1. .. yes, but do you remember what LE was saying when they released the video? They said it was a woman, then Hannah's reflection. When it was obvious that that was absurd, they even said that the POI wasn't the guy with dreads. They already talked to him and he was cleared. Shortly after that they executed the search warrant on his car in the middle of the night. His dreads are his most identifiable feature. If he cut them, he would just be any other big black guy.

BBM2- They couldn't arrest him. They didn't have anything on him other than he was seen with Hannah on the mall and even after seeing his image splashed all over tv, he didn't come forward. I'm of the opinion JM ran to his mom's during the searches and told the "I just bought her a beer and we parted ways" story. So on the 20th his family escorted him down to the police station where I'm sure they encouraged him to tell LE his story and that there is a big mix up and he is not invovlved in her disappearance. Of course that didn't happen. He clammed up and asked to speak to an attorney, which LE helped him find. He drove to his mom's, then lost his FBI tailers and took off for Texas.

MOO

 

[Skigirl]

But more of the mystery is where she ended up afater leaivng the Tempo area. The thought is that she went with JM to where his car was parked, got into the car with him, and then where did they go? My understanding is that LE knew where the car was parked; they have some info and connection of Hannah and the car that allowed them to get a warrent to search and then seize the car, but JM was hands off for LE at that poiint. What could they possibly have known or had? They have stated that the last sighting of Hannah was in fronto of Tempo around 1:45 am. Yet there is something that draws them to JM's car, but not JM. Any ideas, anyone?

I am not sure that LE wasn't really interested in JM by that point, but they did not have enough to search the apartment at first. It would be VERY interesting to know what took them beyond suspicion and all the way to probable cause for the car, but not the apartment. I would have to guess they have a witness that says they saw her in the car, or heard talk of him giving her a ride, since they were still appealing to people who may have seen where the car was parked after they had already executed the search warrant (suggesting no photos or video of the two of them getting into the car). OTOH, maybe the fact that they were seen together and the police knew he was driving that night was enough to create probable cause?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hambirg]

That was my thinking early on as well. I also think they didn't get their hands on him earlier hoping he would lead them to her. I pray daily they will find her.

I think so too. I think they suspected he was responsible for MH early on. I believe Longo alluded to that on the 18th. . .that HG's and MH's cases could be related.

Does anyone remember where it was said in one of the articles that HG was last seen at his apartment? I remember reading that and wondered if it was a slip or just bad reporting. It seems now they are asking for info after JM and HG left Tempo. . .so it seems odd if LE did know that HG was there.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Doubt it. The tapes are pretty clear as to what happened. Everything matches what WG says, except the descrip And eye witness descriptions are often way off. He wasn't focused on JM. And he might not have been sober either.

Not saying she ever met up with a person of that description, but that she may have been looking to meet up with someone who fit that description. And that the description may have been given by one of the friends...possibly someone from one of the parties?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Anything is possible, but what kind of diversionary tactic? What difference could it possibly make whether she was headed to the mall or not? She was in contact with friends during that time until phone died. Why would LE say something contrary to what UVA students would know when it really has no bearing on the important issue fo where she ended up going after she left Tempo with JM What happened then? How do they know she got into that car?

I like to exhaust all possibilities before forming an innocent/guilty opinion about anyone. So, if HG was headed to the Mall, wouldn't it be a possibility that she did meet up with a person she may have been looking for that night? Since LE seems to play with the heads of suspects, I don't think it's so off-the-wall to think they're not coming forth with information about another person who may be involved. I don't remember hearing anything at all from HG's friends, other than what LE has told us. How do we know they didn't tell LE why she went to the Mall? We don't even know if HG left in JM's car...and from the sounds of it, LE doesn't know that either.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

In these cases, time is of the essence. Makes no sense that LE knew JM was the last person seen with her and didn't request to talk to him. At that stage, you simply do not fool around. It was (and still is) entirely possible that JM took here somewhere and left her off alive. Or that she jumped out of the car or he just left her (again still alive) after she did not respond to his advances. Happens all of the time. YOu want to find the girl in case she is hurt, lost, lying in a ditch incapacitated, but possibly alive. As the time ticks on, the chances of that diminish. There is no reason to play coy at that time with JM who they didn't even have enough on to arrest. They should have simply wanted to talk to him as they did with every single other person they saw that night Really, anything could have happened. JM could have taken her home and then passed out leaving her with some other guys. He had been drinking too. LE would want to talk to him, not pretend they didn't know who he was.

I've been thinking about the "not talking", too. When they first went to his apartment, did he give a brief account of meeting her, having a drink, and parting ways but not say where she went? Do you think he would really not say a word at all to LE, or is it that he didn't say anything to help?

 

[jamicat]

I don't remember the exact sequence of police reports, and wouldn't depend upon the Daily Mail for that info. If it is indeed true that LE spoke to the "guy in dreads who came to them: and he was cleared, then LE was not telling the truth there, or they were not telling the truth when they said JM had NOT talked to hem. Or the report was mistaken

It is unclear whether JM did talk to LE whether he went them or LE found him, before the car search episode.

 

[aHoo]

I understand that her friends were probably partying and in a highly inebriated state, which would/could explain why no one went out to get her. But, what about the next day when they sobered up, and the next day? Don't you think someone would have figured out before Sunday afternoon that she had never gotten home? It sounded like at least one person knew she was in some kind of trouble, but never got back to her. I wonder why?

Does anyone know if HG had a roommate or roommates, or if she rented a single apartment at CP?

 

[aHoo]

I agree she was set for walking, but that doesn't mean long distance walking to me. I remember also thinking that was a strange outfit to go out in, fancy top, casual shoes. (although the top made it easier to track her in the videos, IMO). She may also not have normally carried a purse at all. My daughter rarely does, and nearly always wears walkable type shoes, distance walking or no. She just likes to be comfortable. I do think that the reason she went so far is because she did have comfortable shoes. I don't think she would have covered nearly so much mileage if she had not worn them.

Does anyone know if it was normal for her to travel alone late like that?

My daughter went to UVA--never carried a purse when going out at night, just her student ID, a credit card/cash, and house key in a tiny Vera Bradley ID pouch.