Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[MJPeony]

I'm pretty sure that's just the person who made that video rewinding it and playing it again. (You can see it's filmed off his computer screen and he's using a laser pointer to show someone something...) I don't think she actually turned around at the gas station.

Yep, agreed. In the beginning of this case I thought for an entire week that she was turning around.... then I realized it was just a repeating video that I was watching.

 

[ThinkHard]

BBM That struck me too, since Tempo made an official statement, and employees there talked to MSM. One would think LE would have wanted the LAST place where Hannah was seen (whether it was in there or right outside), would be the one more critical and that a gag request be put on them. I can't conceive of what info McGrady's could have given that would compromise the case against JM. Whatever she did there would have no impact that I could fathom on what happened later.

The Tempo statements are harmful, in that they tell us: 1)There is no evidence that JM gave Hannah anything to drink 2) That JM let Hanah alone while at the bar ordering drinks and she could have fled, left, asked for help if there is any iota of doubt that she did want to be with him 3)That Hannah was in bad enough condition at 1:40 AM that JM who was with her, pretty much had to help her. Had he taken her home or somewhere safe, he'd have been a Good Samaritan.

No statments were made of him acting like he was out to "get her", or that he made any such remarks, or that Hannah was being coerced.

Had there been no statements made, one could wonder if any of those things were the case.

All we know about Hannah's stop at McGrady's is that she did linger there, maybe looking for someone. Whether the only interaction between her and an employee there that she was asked if she was all iright, with her declining any asistance is the whole story, we don't know.

It could be that she did try to get in there, and was turned away due to lack of ID with the right age or any ID at all, and the place doesn't want any fall out for that. Doesn't look good to have turned away a woman who then gets picked up possibly by a serial rapist and killer. Tempo's statements make it clear that they want the world to know that Hannah was not in the restaruaunt, that no employee saw her in there, she did not try to come in there, and the only employee who saw her, saw her outside of the restaurant. And I wouldn't bet a dime she wasn't in there for all that vehemance; she likely was. Probably went through the side door the checker saw JM come out of and then "poof" there Hannah appeared right with him without coming through the same door.?

If there is a gag order on mcgradys, I wonder if its not for what she said to the bouncer...but rather who they saw her speak to when she is off screen to the left...I have not been to Cville in 5 years, but did live there for 1, I didn't spend much time at Mcgrady's but I seem to remember that they have a parking lot, would she have been in the parking lot when she was off screen? Talking to someone in a car?

 

[ILOKAL]

it's not that far to walk but what is unusual is that lone females walking toward the downtown mall at night is very unusual

I did a little looking around last night and I would recommend anyone who is not local (not you Paulap) do the same. I googled the various locations I was interested in. I googled McGrady's and was very much surprised. It is not at all the way it looks in the videos. I did the same with the downtown mall. Then I did mapquest from 14th and Wertland to various locations and again was surprised. For example, many have questioned why Hannah took Preston. Well, depending where near UVA she was leaving from, Preston actually is the most direct route. At the time I looked, the drive time was literally just minutes (single digits) so is closer than it looks. What IS difficult to determine is what is near McGrady's. Another poster I asked said a brewery is across the street in the direction Hannah was when she went off the video. I wasn't able to find any shots for that. I would like to see what is around in the direction Hannah went at the time she is gone for about two minutes and people seem to be looking. Also, it looks liks it might be an industrial area. So, the only photos I found before I fell asleep make McGrady's look like it is the only building around.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Randomly popping in here, but I think there's a reasonable chance that if JM hadn't swooped in and gotten to Hannah first, WG would have made her a victim of some kind that night. The way he stopped and waited for her to pass is so creepy.

 

[Starliam]

That's why for me it's difficult to believe that she was really lost. To go from 14th street to McGrady's pub you have to know the street, it's not just a straight road. You have to turn on the right on Grady, at a certain point. Also, she lived nearby, so she probably already went to that pub at least once (or anyway, she knew where it was). And even for going from McGrady's pub to Downtown Mall it's not so easy, if you don't know the street (at least for me. I did it once, and I stopped sometimes to check where exactly I was). She arrived Downtown pretty quickly, considered how long that street is. Or she knew where to go, or she actually asked for informations.

I also have o say that UVA requires that students live in dorms for their first year. She was a second year, so she lived in a dorm the year before (and tehre are no dorm on the corner area). Since this semester started on the 26 of August, she probably lived on the Corner area since hat day. So we can say that she was new there. But again, we can suppose that, as many other students, she frequently went on the Corner area o party even during her first year. So it seems strange to me that she was lost there.

 

[Starliam]

Hi!
The brewery is not acreoss the street, is close to the pub, on the left. Coming from 14th street, you arrive first athe brewery, and the next building is the pub. But since she was on 14th street, if she really wanted to go Downtown, she could have just walked on Main Street, that is easier and shorter from there. That's why I said that for me she wanted to go to that pub, before going Downtown.

EDIT: Sorry, I wanted to answer to ILOKAL, but I messed up.

 

[ILOKAL]

If there is a gag order on mcgradys, I wonder if its not for what she said to the bouncer...but rather who they saw her speak to when she is off screen to the left...I have not been to Cville in 5 years, but did live there for 1, I didn't spend much time at Mcgrady's but I seem to remember that they have a parking lot, would she have been in the parking lot when she was off screen? Talking to someone in a car?

I don't think so. She did something that caused a table of three men plus the bouncer to take notice and keep looking. That doesn't seem to be the reaction they would have had she been speaking to someone in a car or NOT in a car. That's why I would like to see a photo of that area. Oh, and in my opinion, it wasn't the top Hannah was wearing that caused that attention.

 

[Charlie Chan]

I did a little looking around last night and I would recommend anyone who is not local (not you Paulap) do the same. I googled the various locations I was interested in. I googled McGrady's and was very much surprised. It is not at all the way it looks in the videos. I did the same with the downtown mall. Then I did mapquest from 14th and Wertland to various locations and again was surprised. For example, many have questioned why Hannah took Preston. Well, depending where near UVA she was leaving from, Preston actually is the most direct route. At the time I looked, the drive time was literally just minutes (single digits) so is closer than it looks. What IS difficult to determine is what is near McGrady's. Another poster I asked said a brewery is across the street in the direction Hannah was when she went off the video. I wasn't able to find any shots for that. I would like to see what is around in the direction Hannah went at the time she is gone for about two minutes and people seem to be looking. Also, it looks liks it might be an industrial area. So, the only photos I found before I fell asleep make McGrady's look like it is the only building around.

I think that those of us who are familiar with the area weren't saying that Preston wasn't the most direct route.....just that it is not a route than anyone would WALK from the campus area to the Dowtown Mall. As others have posted, the DM by day is upscale eating and shopping...and in the evening, nice dining atmosphere. But it's not where the UVa kids go/hang out for the bar scene. Not at all. ESPECIALLY to walk there!

Different topic: does anyone know if HG had a car at UVa?

 

[AnnaGrace]

It's weird to me that she didn't ask the doorman/bouncer for directions to where she was trying to get to. Mcgradys would have been the perfect spot to STAY amd text friends asking for someone to either pick her up or meet her there, OR to ask the bouncer for directions either back home, to a bus stop, or to call a cab and wait there for it (assuming the cabbie isn't a serial killer). These are things I would have done at her age, unless I had a "mission" of my own.
I know hindsight is always 20/20, but HG did seem like a responsible and street wise person. Something seems DIFFERENT about how HG acted this night than she would have any other time.

Is it possible she had a party drug earlier at the friend parties and she became disoriented? I really have wondered what could have caused her to be lost, but I truly think she lost her bearings for some reason. MOO

 

[ILOKAL]

Hi!
The brewery is not acreoss the street, is close to the pub, on the left. Coming from 14th street, you arrive first athe brewery, and the next building is the pub. But since she was on 14th street, if she really wanted to go Downtown, she could have just walked on Main Street, that is easier and shorter from there. That's why I said that for me she wanted to go to that pub, before going Downtown.

EDIT: Sorry, I wanted to answer to ILOKAL, but I messed up.

Thank you Starliam. I DID realize (thanks to another poster) that the brewery was next door to McGrady's but I somehow thought there was a street between them. Thanks for clearing that up. What might Hannah been doing when she went off the left side of the screen toward the brewery? Also, what is across the street from McGrady's?

 

[Maxwell Smart]

I'm pretty sure that's just the person who made that video rewinding it and playing it again. (You can see it's filmed off his computer screen and he's using a laser pointer to show someone something...) I don't think she actually turned around at the gas station.

ahhh.... that makes sense. I was wondering how I had never seen that footage before. Thanks for the clarification. I still think she was just lost and looking for a bar where her friends were.

 

[Starliam]

Thank you Starliam. I DID realize (thanks to another poster) that the brewery was next door to McGrady's but I somehow thought there was a street between them. Thanks for clearing that up. What might Hannah been doing when she went off the left side of the screen toward the brewery? Also, what is across the street from McGrady's?

Mmm... There is a place that sells kebab, that I think closes at 9. I don't remember the name, so I can't check; but last time I was at the brewery next to McGrady's pub we went there to eat and I remember my friends asking me to move (I had to finish my beer) because it was closing at 9. So I'm pretty sure. Then there is the SPCA rummage store, a little supermarket and an Itaian restaurant called "Mona Lisa". I think the closest to the pub (across the street) is the place that sells kebab.

 

[ILOKAL]

I'm pretty sure that's just the person who made that video rewinding it and playing it again. (You can see it's filmed off his computer screen and he's using a laser pointer to show someone something...) I don't think she actually turned around at the gas station.

Yeah, I watched that clip last night and thought the same thing. Of course, I had previously seen really good quality videos of Hannah by the Shell Station so I knew the blurry one wasn't correct.

 

[ILOKAL]

Mmm... There is a place that sells kebab, that I think closes at 9. I don't remember the name, so I can't check; but last time I was at the brewery next to McGrady's pub we went there to eat and I remember my friends asking me to move (I had to finish my beer) because it was closing at 9. So I'm pretty sure. Then there is the SPCA rummage store, a little supermarket and an Itaian restaurant called "Mona Lisa". I think the closest to the pub (across the street) is the place that sells kebab.

Thanks so much. So when Hannah went off the screen in the direction of the kebab restaurant, would she have walked over to a parking lot, or what? Would she have been facing the side of that restaurant or the front?

 

[ThinkHard]

Thank you Simlyme for posting this link. After watching this video, I definitely think she was lost. It looks like she's trying to find someone or something she recognizes. Also, notice how well she is getting from one place to the other. This confirms to me that she was drugged sometime after this and also after she arrived at the mall. She was still walking quickly and well then. So, if it's correct as reported by the Tempo employee outside that she was really drunk and could barely walk, then I think something was put in a drink that caused this. JMO. I think she was lost and scared and trying to find someone she knew. So, so heartbreaking.

She doesn't look drunk, drug, or lost to me, neccasarily.

Suppose this scenario: perhaps she was a girl who had something heavy on her mind, and a feeling of just needing to get away...who also might have been wearing shoes not great for walking long distances. She looks like someone who didn't know where she wanted to be exactly, but it wasn't because she was lost.

Maybe something happened at that party, and she wanted away from it, and away from anyone at it...maybe she knew someone at mcgradys either via a status/tweet, or by text or cell...someone she needed/wanted to see perhaps as a comfort or because she was mad and going to confront them, perhaps related to whatever reason she left the party....or she was at the party, then got bad news via phone notification or through someone there and it "turned her world upside down".... So she was going to confront someone or needed to talk to someone about what she just heard/learned....(add in some alcohol which she was reported to consume at the party)....

But when she gets to Mcgrady's she can't find them, she can't get into the bar, they aren't on the patio or in the parking lot.

Then maybe she was alerted as to this persons new whereabouts...."oh they left 10 min ago they where headed to Tempo".....so she started heading there...not realizing how long the walk was, and not really knowing exactly the best rout there.

So she gets to the downtown mall, and she's upset, angry, sad, hurt, betrayed...who knows... kind of focused in her own thoughts, less aware of her surroundings, tired from walking, feet hurt, and still slightly drunk from the party earlier....and who does she cross paths with...but LJ (who's face may or may not have been familiar to her, though I doubt she knew him well), who's know to pray on girls in distress and intoxicated....so he swoops in, puts his arm around her, "oh what's wrong baby doll, how can a girl as pretty as you be so upset".....and at that point she just pours her heart out to him, tells this virtual stranger everything because she so exasperated. So then maybe he responds with "well lets go find them (at tempo)". And she thinks I've got this huge guy, I've got protection to this person I want to confront.....what a nice guy.

But then maybe they get to Tempo, and the person isn't there, or they can't find them....and JLM uses this time to drug her.....so by the time its Tempos last call, not only did she never find who she set out to find...but her state of mind is so altered....he just walks her to his car.....its possible he never even "offered" her a ride until after she was already drugged.

A strange guy going with you to a bar, sounds far less creepy then a strange guy offering you a ride....I think Hannah was smart enough / sober enough even when she first entered the mall to be skeeved out by a stranger offering her a ride....but if the subject wasnt even broached until after the drugging....I can better comprehend why she would have felt comfortable enough with him to spend time with him in the first place.

Anyway just throwing out a scenario.

We clearly do not know what LE knows but I am guessing if something similar to this scenario is what put HG at the downtown mall that night, LE would be well aware of it. It just doesn't mean they would tell us.

 

[Starliam]

Thanks so much. So when Hannah went off the screen in the direction of the kebab restaurant, would she have walked over to a parking lot, or what? Would she have been facing the side of that restaurant or the front?

She would have walk across the parking lot (the parking lot of the pub is right in front of the pub). And she would have crossed Grady Avenue in a place in which the street is really large. She would have faced the front of the kebab place.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't think so. She did something that caused a table of three men plus the bouncer to take notice and keep looking. That doesn't seem to be the reaction they would have had she been speaking to someone in a car or NOT in a car. That's why I would like to see a photo of that area. Oh, and in my opinion, it wasn't the top Hannah was wearing that caused that attention.

True but it is a reaction I would expect, had they witnessed a heated or escalated conversation btw people.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Not sure if this has been posted...this is from 09/22/14:

"Cecilia Rodi, owner of Rapture restaurant and bar, said that a bouncer working the doors that night saw Graham walking down the mall. Rodi said that the bouncer later saw Graham speaking with a large man; Matthew is 6-foot-2 and weighs 270 pounds."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b1a46-428c-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html

Think this bouncer is WG? If so, since JM is reported to have been a regular at Rapture, WG may have also given LE JM's name.

 

[ILOKAL]

She would have walk across the parking lot (the parking lot of the pub is right in front of the pub). And she would have crossed Grady Avenue in a place in which the street is really large. She would have faced the front of the kebab place.

Now I'm totally confused! I thought a couple of posts ago you said the kebab place was right next to McGrady's with no street between them? Because I thought there WAS a street and you said no. Please clarify, and thank you for your patience.

 

[ILOKAL]

Not sure if this has been posted...this is from 09/22/14:

"Cecilia Rodi, owner of Rapture restaurant and bar, said that a bouncer working the doors that night saw Graham walking down the mall. Rodi said that the bouncer later saw Graham speaking with a large man; Matthew is 6-foot-2 and weighs 270 pounds."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b1a46-428c-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html

Think this bouncer is WG? If so, since JM is reported to have been a regular at Rapture, WG may have also given LE JM's name.

A couple of weeks ago someone posted that some sources said WG might have been a bouncer on the DTM.