Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[MzOpinion8d]

I think its entirely possible.

Without delving into politics here, I think one of the biggest failures in recent years has been the push to nationwide healthcare without utilizing smaller models such as;

Our mental healthcare system (which is in drastic need of an overhaul including a way of keeping tabs on and red flagging people such as JLM while allowing open communication between LE and care providers)

Our dental healthcare system (since a large part of the basis for our overall health and well being is healthy teeth and gums)

Utilizing smaller working models would have yielded tremendous benefits to this country and its citizens and could have helped stop or at least alert LE to someone like JLM as a possible suspect....in a number of cases.

Usually, I am a firm believer in the rights of the individual but not in cases like this where societys need to be safe, and to just live without the fear of being murdered, supersedes a sick and/or evil individuals right to privacy.

The fact that JLM didnt pop up on anyones radar, beyond a routine interview of all cab drivers working in C-Ville is amazing to me....and not in a good way either.

I agree with your thoughts, but is it known that JLM had mental health issues that were diagnosed/treated? I know there's a psych thread here but I haven't read much of it, if any. Thanks in advance!

 

[Paulap]

Mmm... There is a place that sells kebab, that I think closes at 9. I don't remember the name, so I can't check; but last time I was at the brewery next to McGrady's pub we went there to eat and I remember my friends asking me to move (I had to finish my beer) because it was closing at 9. So I'm pretty sure. Then there is the SPCA rummage store, a little supermarket and an Itaian restaurant called "Mona Lisa". I think the closest to the pub (across the street) is the place that sells kebab.

'

kebob place is Sticks - oops already answered:blushing:

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

You know, if HG had entered the Downtown Mall at 2nd St. NE rather than where she entered at 2nd St. NW, when she hit Main St., she would have been very, very close to Blue Light Grill--probably within eye sight.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...077,18z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xa66721ad4be597a

This video shows her entering the mall via 2nd St., NW at about 1:00 a.m.
http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-new-video-footage-of-hannah/

At 1:06 she writes the text that she was looking for a party, but was lost. Was the "party" supposed to be at Blue Light Grill, but moved before she made it to downtown? Is this why JM made a mad dash for her outside of Sal's--because he had been expecting her?

 

[Conductor71]

It is curious about that party at The Pointe apartments. From what I saw reported, it sounds like she went there after running into a classmate out on the street. She didn't stay very long...you have to wonder about that one and what might have happened there to put her in such a state of disorientation.

This would be the party where someone reportedly offered to walk her home...? Was she starting to look disoriented then?

 

[Conductor71]

JMO but I DO think he was (at least on the periphery) on their radar. I have nothing but a hunch to back that up...and something about Longos urgency when they knew who she was with...before the MH connection.

I think we can infer that Longo did have the Fairfax/MH connection very early on. I think its is one reason JM stood out over WG. In the press, police ask landowners to walk their properties on September 17th. Why would they ask that if they did not have MH in mind? The official release of the link between JM and MH was not made until Sept 29th.

Unrelated...but did LE ever say that they DON'T have her cell phone....or are we just guessing that because they never SAID they DID have it.

Is it possible that when they search JM's car they found Hannah's smashed phone?

Also we know her last text was either at 1:06 or 1:20...but have we been told if there was any indication when her phone went dead after that?

On September 25th, LE did state that they were seeking her i5 with pink case. We never received any update as to if it was ever located.

http://www.nbc12.com/story/26628505...e-renew-appeal-for-tips-in-hannah-graham-case

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

This would be the party where someone reportedly offered to walk her home...? Was she starting to look disoriented then?

I don't know for sure at which party she rejected the walk home, but think it was the first party. I say that because the second party wasn't referenced for quite a while after she was missing, and I think the offer for a walk was reported fairly early on.

If you believe HG was truly lost, she had to have been over-the-top disoriented, IMO. Longo says she was lost, her world was turned around, etc., etc. When you look at the proximity of her home base to the Downtown Mall, if what he says is true, and she only ended up at the DM because she was "lost", it stand to reason that she was highly disoriented.

There aren't really that many streets in the area--so many of them are "main" roads and numbered streets. I just can't see how she would make one or two wrong turns into a residential neighborhood or head up a street the wrong way, and not be able to get herself back on track. Based on what LE says, I feel she was really, really out of it.

 

[mysterious minds]

You know, if HG had entered the Downtown Mall at 2nd St. NE rather than where she entered at 2nd St. NW, when she hit Main St., she would have been very, very close to Blue Light Grill--probably within eye sight.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...077,18z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xa66721ad4be597a

This video shows her entering the mall via 2nd St., NW at about 1:00 a.m.
http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-new-video-footage-of-hannah/

At 1:06 she writes the text that she was looking for a party, but was lost. Was the "party" supposed to be at Blue Light Grill, but moved before she made it to downtown? Is this why JM made a mad dash for her outside of Sal's--because he had been expecting her?

I've been on the DM several times and I'm still confused about the direction of HG in the videos. How come she is walking from the right side of screen to the left in all of them? The businesses that captured her on camera seem to progress from the left to the right, with 2nd Street starting on northwest end of DM and Tempo being at the southeast corner end of DM. Sal's is on the north side of Main Street. Can someone please clarify all of this for me?

 

[MJPeony]

I've been on the DM several times and I'm still confused about the direction of HG in the videos. How come she is walking from the right side of screen to the left in all of them? The businesses that captured her on camera seem to progress from the left to the right, with 2nd Street starting on northwest end of DM and Tempo being at the southeast corner end of DM. Sal's is on the north side of Main Street. Can someone please clarify all of this for me?

She's coming from the end of the mall near Felini's (2nd st. NW and Market). When she actually starts down the Downtown Mall on Main St. she has taken a left off of 2nd street cutting the corner around Bizou. So she's walking now in direction AWAY from the Omni- going down the Mall towards the amphitheater side.

When you see the video footage from Sal's and Tuel's, you're seeing their cameras capturing her walking on the other side of the mall. So your viewpoint is from Sal's and Tuels-- she's going right to left in the video, but she's still progressing down the mall in direction of the amphitheater. Sal's comes first, then Tuel's, etc. And all of this is in the direction of Tempo down at the end. (Not saying she was intending to go to Tempo necessarily, but just saying it all is in progression/succession of her walking direction.)

Does that make sense? I don't know if I explained it well. I have seen a map or two floating around here on the boards that is not accurate, from my understanding of what I just laid out. I was confused at one point as well, but I'm pretty sure I am understanding it correctly.

 

[MJPeony]

You know, if HG had entered the Downtown Mall at 2nd St. NE rather than where she entered at 2nd St. NW, when she hit Main St., she would have been very, very close to Blue Light Grill--probably within eye sight.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...077,18z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xa66721ad4be597a

This video shows her entering the mall via 2nd St., NW at about 1:00 a.m.
http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-new-video-footage-of-hannah/

At 1:06 she writes the text that she was looking for a party, but was lost. Was the "party" supposed to be at Blue Light Grill, but moved before she made it to downtown? Is this why JM made a mad dash for her outside of Sal's--because he had been expecting her?

From my understanding of the route she took, she passed by Blue Light Grill even though she entered the mall on 2nd St. NW. So she was visible regardless.

 

[Rolo]

For LE to say that HG ended up at the Downntown Mall because she was "lost" is totally absurd.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...x89b386480f9e5b31:0x40432e7ee148f41a?hl=en-US

The marker on the map is Camden Plaza Apartments. Form there, she went to The Pointe Apartments, which is directly across the street from Camden Plaza. If you look at the map, you see Sadler St. Sadler to 15th and you're right at HG's apartment building. If she was going to 14th and Wertland, it's the next intersection in the other direction from Sadler.

LE has to know that she was in search of a specific address (and not 14th and Wertland) to know that she was lost. And I don't think the address was anywhere in the vicinity of The Corner.

I believe we're totally in the dark about what was going on with HG that night, but I doubt that LE is. Maybe whatever that mystery piece is wasn't ultimately responsible for HG ending up on Old Lynchburg Road, but I have a feeling they contributed to it. Hopefully, LE is going to pull all of that together and hold those responsible for the part they played.

I know this sounds simplistic, but perhaps she just went back to her own apartment during some of that "missing" time to freshen up or something. It's been mentioned several times that she was traveling light--no purse, etc, so maybe she wanted to look her best for whoever it was she was looking for. If her roomates weren't home that evening, there wouldn't be anyone to say whether she came home or not. Unless of course, they have cameras on all the entrances. Just a thought....

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I know this sounds simplistic, but perhaps she just went back to her own apartment during some of that "missing" time to freshen up or something. It's been mentioned several times that she was traveling light--no purse, etc, so maybe she wanted to look her best for whoever it was she was looking for. If her roomates weren't home that evening, there wouldn't be anyone to say whether she came home or not. Unless of course, they have cameras on all the entrances. Just a thought....

Maybe, but they have cameras inside her apartment and it's never been publicized that she was recorded later that night--just around 9:30 or so.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

From my understanding of the route she took, she passed by Blue Light Grill even though she entered the mall on 2nd St. NW. So she was visible regardless.

What I was thinking is, let's just say she was heading to the Blue Light Grill, an arrangement made through one of those social sites. The directions were to enter the DM on 2nd St., but it was supposed to be NE, not 2nd St. NW where she actually entered. You're right, she would have passed it anyway, but maybe because of the directions she was expecting to see it to her right when she got to Main St. She didn't see it at 2nd St. NE, so she wrote the text about being lost. Maybe that's a stretch, but JM was at the Blue Light Grill while HM was heading downtown, and she just missed him being there.

 

[MJPeony]

What I was thinking is, let's just say she was heading to the Blue Light Grill, an arrangement made through one of those social sites. The directions were to enter the DM on 2nd St., but it was supposed to be NE, not 2nd St. NW where she actually entered. You're right, she would have passed it anyway, but maybe because of the directions she was expecting to see it to her right when she got to Main St. She didn't see it at 2nd St. NE, so she wrote the text about being lost. Maybe that's a stretch, but JM was at the Blue Light Grill while HM was heading downtown, and she just missed him being there.

I see. Well, perhaps. But JM was coming up the other direction towards Sal's when we first see him. So he would have left BLG long enough ago that he'd have gotten down the other way to head back up (to encounter HG coming down his way). I think Coy's article on JM's movements that night says he left BLG and was then at Tempo. Which seems to jive with the video footage time-wise. Argh, it's all so complicated when we can't see more than those 2 security clips....

I still can't get over how quickly he notices HG and then falls in step behind her. I've thought that maybe he'd seen her already before he comes into view on video. But I'm not so sure now. He looks like he actually first notices her right after he high-fives that woman.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I see. Well, perhaps. But JM was coming up the other direction towards Sal's when we first see him. So he would have left BLG long enough ago that he'd have gotten down the other way to head back up (to encounter HG coming down his way). I think Coy's article on JM's movements that night says he left BLG and was then at Tempo. Which seems to jive with the video footage time-wise. Argh, it's all so complicated when we can't see more than those 2 security clips....

I still can't get over how quickly he notices HG and then falls in step behind her. I've thought that maybe he'd seen her already before he comes into view on video. But I'm not so sure now. He looks like he actually first notices her right after he high-fives that woman.

Right, he had left the BLG by the time HG arrived at the DM. But, his friends said they left because of his behavior--I don't think he would have known they were going to leave at the time he may have set up something to meet HG there. His friends left BLG and went to Tempo, he followed. His friends left Tempo, he stayed a while longer, and headed down Main Street where he met up with HG. Was he headed back down to BLG to see if she was there? It just feels like he either knew her/was looking for her.

 

[MJPeony]

Right, he had left the BLG by the time HG arrived at the DM. But, his friends said they left because of his behavior--I don't think he would have known they were going to leave at the time he may have set up something to meet HG there. His friends left BLG and went to Tempo, he followed. His friends left Tempo, he stayed a while longer, and headed down Main Street where he met up with HG. Was he headed back down to BLG to see if she was there? It just feels like he either knew her/was looking for her.

BBM

Something has felt weird to me as well about this part. It is unnatural IMO for someone to notice her, assess the situation, and make an about-face so quickly. I realize we are talking about a predator here, but it still doesn't make sense in my brain that it was possible to do all of that so quickly. I thought originally, based on my assessment of the video, that he was on the look-out for her- i.e he was supposed to be meeting someone of her description. He notices her, easily computes it's who he is looking for, and falls in line unobtrusively behind her. If so, why he didn't just walk straight up to her though I can't figure out. He clearly didn't want to make a scene of noticing her.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

BBM

Something has felt weird to me as well about this part. It is unnatural IMO for someone to notice her, assess the situation, and make an about-face so quickly. I realize we are talking about a predator here, but it still doesn't make sense in my brain that it was possible to do all of that so quickly. I thought originally, based on my assessment of the video, that he was on the look-out for her- i.e he was supposed to be meeting someone of her description. He notices her, easily computes it's who he is looking for, and falls in line unobtrusively behind her. If so, why he didn't just walk straight up to her though I can't figure out. He clearly didn't want to make a scene of noticing her.

I wonder if JM saw WG so he laid back some, and figured he'd lost him after he ducked into the doorway. (I'm now of the opinion that WG was a bouncer at Rapture and probably knew JM.) Once WG was out of the way, he could approach her.

 

[Fancynancy]

I see. Well, perhaps. But JM was coming up the other direction towards Sal's when we first see him. So he would have left BLG long enough ago that he'd have gotten down the other way to head back up (to encounter HG coming down his way). I think Coy's article on JM's movements that night says he left BLG and was then at Tempo. Which seems to jive with the video footage time-wise. Argh, it's all so complicated when we can't see more than those 2 security clips....

I still can't get over how quickly he notices HG and then falls in step behind her. I've thought that maybe he'd seen her already before he comes into view on video. But I'm not so sure now. He looks like he actually first notices her right after he high-fives that woman.

I thought I was the only one. Either he saw her from afar, even though the angle on the video makes that seem impossible, or he was making that u turn and spotted her in the process. I kept thinking the landscape must be different than I imagine and he saw her coming??

 

[Skigirl]

I wonder if JM saw WG so he laid back some, and figured he'd lost him after he ducked into the doorway. (I'm now of the opinion that WG was a bouncer at Rapture and probably knew JM.) Once WG was out of the way, he could approach her.

WG looks too old to me to be a bouncer.

 

[MJPeony]

I thought I was the only one. Either he saw her from afar, even though the angle on the video makes that seem impossible, or he was making that u turn and spotted her in the process. I kept thinking the landscape must be different than I imagine and he saw her coming??

The more I watch this video (and I know we've all watched it countless times!), the more it's not making sense to me. I've said before that I'm not into conspiracy theories, so I'm trying to stay focused. Something is not adding up somehow.

It's now looking to me like he doesn't notice her so much in his first glance towards her (second 28). He notices her but it's so brief that I don't think there is any way he assessed her to the point he made the decision to turn around and follow her. He only glances over in her direction.

The other thing that I'm seeing now is that the woman closest to the camera is definitely holding something in her right hand (I saw that mentioned on here weeks ago by someone but I thought nothing of it if she was.) It has a glint to it as she walks along. Maybe a cell phone, not sure. But what I'm realizing now is that when he "high-fives" her- the one with something in her right hand- he cannot high five that hand which is holding something, but that's the hand he touches. That's not a high-five. No way IMO. Something isn't right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=L8WV9wLBzdg&app=desktop
I am SO frustrated the camera doesn't have a wider view! :banghead:

(landscape is just a straight street btw. problem is that there is stuff in the middle- kiosks, tables and chairs, light posts, etc.)

 

[Skigirl]

For LE to say that HG ended up at the Downntown Mall because she was "lost" is totally absurd.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...x89b386480f9e5b31:0x40432e7ee148f41a?hl=en-US

The marker on the map is Camden Plaza Apartments. Form there, she went to The Pointe Apartments, which is directly across the street from Camden Plaza. If you look at the map, you see Sadler St. Sadler to 15th and you're right at HG's apartment building. If she was going to 14th and Wertland, it's the next intersection in the other direction from Sadler.

LE has to know that she was in search of a specific address (and not 14th and Wertland) to know that she was lost. And I don't think the address was anywhere in the vicinity of The Corner.

I believe we're totally in the dark about what was going on with HG that night, but I doubt that LE is. Maybe whatever that mystery piece is wasn't ultimately responsible for HG ending up on Old Lynchburg Road, but I have a feeling they contributed to it. Hopefully, LE is going to pull all of that together and hold those responsible for the part they played.

I'm not at all following the logic in the above. She said she was going one direction on Main when she was going the opposite on Preston. To me, that means she was on Preston, heading toward the DM when she did not know she was doing so, when, in fact, she thought/intended to be heading back in the other direction.