Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[themom]

I cant say much...but perhaps you are over estimating his moral compass.

But yes makes me sick to think about too.

That's true - I could be overestimating. Maybe he was thinking she would be a good match for himself :/
Either way, that dude is scarred for life knowing he could have prevented her death, if he had stepped in. I hope he knows he had NO way of knowing what was in store

 

[EmmaRose]

Trying to picture the DTM area. How far is Rapture from where WG was in doorway as Hannah passed him? And how far is Tempo from Rapture?

 

[Conductor71]

I definitely thought of you, and our previous convo, MJPeony! LOL

But yes...now I'm thinking she may be a drug dealer (I just posted this, above).

Makes a lot of sense. Except, why would her hand be glowing? It could be that she just bumped his hand instead of a high five, bc she was too lazy or tired or whatever.to switch it out of that hand so she could give creeper LJ from work (or wherever she knows him from) a proper high five...

I see the woman approaching JM with what looks very much like a cell phone in her right hand; that is why it seems to be glowing.

Is it on camera that they high fived? I see it as JM has his hand raised acknowledging her in a "hi" gesture. High fiving casually someone you walk past would have involved them both using their left hands. To use their right hands would have involved a lot longer interaction and both would have to turn their bodies to some degree to do it... much bigger production and seems they would have stopped and chatted or something in that case. JMO

 

[hambirg]

Maybe for the same reason he gave a totally incorrect description of JM--close shaven, goatee, black pants and white t-shirt, slight beer belly?? Sounds like LE was playing all sorts of games with JM, and with everyone else.

This.

I think a lot of what the public heard in the early days was carefully crafted media strategy coming from LE.

I don't believe for a second that was the actual description given by WG. Just like I don't believe for a second that LE thought JM was a woman, or Hannah's reflection. I think it was even stated by LE at one time that the man in the dreads was cleared by LE, but I'll have to see if I can find the link.

MOO. . .I think it was strategy to stress JM into leading LE to Hannah.

 

[MJPeony]

I see the woman approaching JM with what looks very much like a cell phone in her right hand; that is why it seems to be glowing.

Is it on camera that they high fived? I see it as JM has his hand raised acknowledging her in a "hi" gesture. High fiving casually someone you walk past would have involved them both using their left hands. To use their right hands would have involved a lot longer interaction and both would have to turn their bodies to some degree to do it... much bigger production and seems they would have stopped and chatted or something in that case. JMO

I definitely think it's a cell phone. And on my screen, yes you can see their hands make contact (BARELY, but you can see half of their contact on the left of the screen- right at the edge). It's JM's right hand to her right hand. I don't know why it would be assumed it would be left hands if they were high-fiving (?) They were passing on that side. I don't think a high-five would have lasted any longer. But I no longer think it's a high-five. I agree it's hard to see anything in his hand afterwards- not only hard, but I don't think I see anything. But it's fuzzy. And as already said, something small wouldn't be visible.

 

[MJPeony]

Trying to picture the DTM area. How far is Rapture from where WG was in doorway as Hannah passed him? And how far is Tempo from Rapture?

Rapture is between Sal's and Tuel's and all within a block and 1/2. Moving down towards Tempo's. So- Sal's, then Rapture, then Tuels, then Tempo down another block and around the corner. Here's google map: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0304095,-78.4801668,19z

 

[FindHG]

Mystère, mystère Hannah Graham est la cinquième fille à disparaitre en… [Hannah Graham is the fifth girl to disappear in...]
by Arglanod - Nov 1, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsYxJ2IsezE

 

[Jmm124567]

Rapture is between Sal's and Tuel's and all within a block and 1/2. Moving down towards Tempo's. So- Sal's, then Rapture, then Tuels, then Tempo down another block and around the corner. Here's google map: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0304095,-78.4801668,19z

Yeah Sal's is on one block then Rapture and Tuel's are on the next block. Rapture and Tuel's may be next to each other or just a couple doors down.

 

[ILOKAL]

Rapture is between Sal's and Tuel's and all within a block and 1/2. Moving down towards Tempo's. So- Sal's, then Rapture, then Tuels, then Tempo down another block and around the corner. Here's google map: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0304095,-78.4801668,19z

I never realized how close to the police department the DTM is. JLM is REALLY bold!

 

[netsleuth]

This.

I think a lot of what the public heard in the early days was carefully crafted media strategy coming from LE.

I don't believe for a second that was the actual description given by WG. Just like I don't believe for a second that LE thought JM was a woman, or Hannah's reflection. I think it was even stated by LE at one time that the man in the dreads was cleared by LE, but I'll have to see if I can find the link.

MOO. . .I think it was strategy to stress JM into leading LE to Hannah.

"Police have issued a statement to say the black man shown walking with Hannah Graham in video footage released by police has been ruled out of their missing persons inquiry.

The man, seen in the video who has dreadlocks and is wearing three-quarter length trousers, has already been interviewed by detectives.

A spokesman for Charlottesville Police Department said: ‘We already know who the black man in the video is and he has spoken with officers.

‘He has been ruled out of the inquiry.

‘He has nothing to do with Hannah’s disappearance.’

Police have however released a description of a different black man seen with Hannah that they are desperately trying to trace."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-teen-followed-stumbled-deserted-mall.html

 

[ILOKAL]

"Police have issued a statement to say the black man shown walking with Hannah Graham in video footage released by police has been ruled out of their missing persons inquiry.

The man, seen in the video who has dreadlocks and is wearing three-quarter length trousers, has already been interviewed by detectives.

A spokesman for Charlottesville Police Department said: ‘We already know who the black man in the video is and he has spoken with officers.

‘He has been ruled out of the inquiry.

‘He has nothing to do with Hannah’s disappearance.’

Police have however released a description of a different black man seen with Hannah that they are desperately trying to trace."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-teen-followed-stumbled-deserted-mall.html

When you read the entire article it becomes clear (to me) that the reporter either misunderstood or misquoted information as the article is contradictory. IMO

 

[Skigirl]

I'm basing my opinion of WG on this:

"Cecilia Rodi, owner of Rapture restaurant and bar, said that a bouncer working the doors that night saw Graham walking down the mall. Rodi said that the bouncer later saw Graham speaking with a large man; Matthew is 6-foot-2 and weighs 270 pounds."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...527_story.html

Several other people, including some at Tempo, also reported that she was seen speaking with a large man that matched that description, though. Why does one of the people who said that have to be both WG and a bouncer at Rapture? Couldn't the bouncer at Rapture have said that AND WG also have said that?

And this is what WG said about JM: A black male in his late 20s to early 30s, about 5'10" to 5'11" tall and weighing between 250-285 pounds wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt and having a closely shaved head as well as a goatee and a slight "beer belly".

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/19/dreadlocked-man-went-into-bar-with-missing-uva-student-hannah-graham/

That is a far cry from "matching his description perfectly".

 

[Skigirl]

IMHO, the ideas in this thread are starting to veer off into the twilight zone. The woman in the video is now handing off a date rape drug to JM? The bouncer at Rapture left Rapture to follow HG and then happened upon JM also following her but gave LE a description that was pretty far off-base for someone who knew the JM (although not far off-base for someone who was not familiar with him and was seeing him quickly in the dark)? :alien::beamup:

 

[jamicat]

IMHO, the ideas in this thread are starting to veer off into the twilight zone. The woman in the video is now handing off a date rape drug to JM? The bouncer at Rapture left Rapture to follow HG and then happened upon JM also following her but gave LE a description that was pretty far off-base for someone who knew the JM (although not far off-base for someone who was not familiar with him and was seeing him quickly in the dark? :alien::beamup:

Given that this is a victim friendly forum, and we get so many different ideas, one can see how if other evidence discarding those theories is not there, that a perp can get off with the reasonable doubt being the standard. The defense attorney doesn't have to weave such preposterous tale to get that reasonable doubt. It's there.

Yes, WG could have deliberately given the wrong scrip of JM, or his memory could have been off. He was more focused on Hannah, not JM, probably barely glanced at him. He didn't have the video to view to jostle his memory. That's why eye witness accounts have to be taken with a grain or salt, or the whole shaker. That someone after 1 AM in a bar says s/he saw Hannah there. Ummm. Maybe. Maybe not. The ones presumed sober and keeping an eye on the place don't verify it, though, yes, they could all be lying to save their jobs, the bar from fines. Don't think so if she were blatantly in the bar area, though.

But this shows what even a logical reconstruction of events can undergo in a court, in the juroros mind. Maybe Hananh did not get lost but was going to the mall to pick up a guy for a tryst, and hooked up with JM for that purpose, went off with him for consensual sex, was safely dropped up and another guy then nabbed her and did the dirty deed. Possible? Erh, yes. When does it get into the realm of reasonable doubt?

 

[themom]

Mystère, mystère Hannah Graham est la cinquième fille à disparaitre en… [Hannah Graham is the fifth girl to disappear in...]
by Arglanod - Nov 1, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsYxJ2IsezE

Wow this contains footage I've never seen before.

Nevermind. Looks computer generated.

 

[SteveP]

Given that this is a victim friendly forum, and we get so many different ideas, one can see how if other evidence discarding those theories is not there, that a perp can get off with the reasonable doubt being the standard. The defense attorney doesn't have to weave such preposterous tale to get that reasonable doubt. It's there.

Yes, WG could have deliberately given the wrong scrip of JM, or his memory could have been off. He was more focused on Hannah, not JM, probably barely glanced at him. He didn't have the video to view to jostle his memory. That's why eye witness accounts have to be taken with a grain or salt, or the whole shaker. That someone after 1 AM in a bar says s/he saw Hannah there. Ummm. Maybe. Maybe not. The ones presumed sober and keeping an eye on the place don't verify it, though, yes, they could all be lying to save their jobs, the bar from fines. Don't think so if she were blatantly in the bar area, though.

But this shows what even a logical reconstruction of events can undergo in a court, in the juroros mind. Maybe Hananh did not get lost but was going to the mall to pick up a guy for a tryst, and hooked up with JM for that purpose, went off with him for consensual sex, was safely dropped up and another guy then nabbed her and did the dirty deed. Possible? Erh, yes. When does it get into the realm of reasonable doubt?

This is a great time to mention Occam's Razor. Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor and in Latin lex parsimoniae) is a problem-solving principle devised by William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347). It states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. Other, more complicated solutions may ultimately prove correct, but—in the absence of certainty—the fewer assumptions that are made, the better.

As to reasonable doubt, so many people in general, and jurors in particular, sometimes struggle with what 'reasonable doubt' is. The judge in this video explains it well, and in a way that almost everyone can understand. JMO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQw8r1xW4CM

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Several other people, including some at Tempo, also reported that she was seen speaking with a large man that matched that description, though. Why does one of the people who said that have to be both WG and a bouncer at Rapture? Couldn't the bouncer at Rapture have said that AND WG also have said that?

And this is what WG said about JM: A black male in his late 20s to early 30s, about 5'10" to 5'11" tall and weighing between 250-285 pounds wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt and having a closely shaved head as well as a goatee and a slight "beer belly".

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/19/dreadlocked-man-went-into-bar-with-missing-uva-student-hannah-graham/

That is a far cry from "matching his description perfectly".

Other than Tempo, I hadn't heard of anyone else seeing them together at the DM--not that there aren't others, but for some reason, I just think this is a fit.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

IMHO, the ideas in this thread are starting to veer off into the twilight zone. The woman in the video is now handing off a date rape drug to JM? The bouncer at Rapture left Rapture to follow HG and then happened upon JM also following her but gave LE a description that was pretty far off-base for someone who knew the JM (although not far off-base for someone who was not familiar with him and was seeing him quickly in the dark)? :alien::beamup:

I am not saying the bouncer at Rapture actually left Rapture to follow HG, I would say he was taking a break for some reason, or maybe he was off-duty, and he ran into her while he was walking the mall.

And I think LE gave the wrong description to the public on purpose.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

In the very beginning, I suspected that the high five was possibly a "hand off" of a date rape drug. But this only made sense to me if JM was "working" with a ring of some kind (human trafficking, for example). However, it could be that high five woman is a drug dealer who sells drugs used for date raping.
Horrific to imagine a woman selling a date rape drug, but more horrifying things have happened in this world, especially where money is concerned...

When you look at his hands after that encounter, his fingers are loose and all seem to be pointing downward. I don't think he has anything in either one of them.

 

[hambirg]

"Police have issued a statement to say the black man shown walking with Hannah Graham in video footage released by police has been ruled out of their missing persons inquiry.

The man, seen in the video who has dreadlocks and is wearing three-quarter length trousers, has already been interviewed by detectives.

A spokesman for Charlottesville Police Department said: ‘We already know who the black man in the video is and he has spoken with officers.

‘He has been ruled out of the inquiry.

‘He has nothing to do with Hannah’s disappearance.’

Police have however released a description of a different black man seen with Hannah that they are desperately trying to trace."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-teen-followed-stumbled-deserted-mall.html

Thank you for finding the link! It reminded me LE was also saying at the time of the video release, that the POI did not appear on any of the videos. We know that's not true. I still think it was all media strategy. I think they already had him under surveillance, because very shortly after they were executing the search warrant on his car. MOO. . .LE said something like a tip from a neighbor led to the search. I'm really not totally buying that. Pure speculation, but what if LE saw JM walk out of his apartment late at night and put something sparkly in his car? That would give LE probable cause to search the car. And if they did find Hannah's top, that would be enough to get the search warrants for his aprtment and phone.

I am not saying the bouncer at Rapture actually left Rapture to follow HG, I would say he was taking a break for some reason, or maybe he was off-duty, and he ran into her while he was walking the mall.

And I think LE gave the wrong description to the public on purpose.

This. Yep and yeppers. :yes: