Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[FindHG]

Thanks for that. I feel a little lost because I can't figure out why she was alone. Ok, let's say there's a party. Surely she wasn't the only one going to it. Why walk all that way (however short it was) alone at that hour? There must have been others going to the same party, right? ...Unless it wasn't a party. That's what haunts me. What was she doing? Is there something else on her phone that we don't know? The friends are conspicuously quiet. Was it normal for Hannah to take off walking after midnight alone after drinking? Something is missing from this whole story and it's bothering me so much. Bless her heart. It's really devastating for me and I didn't even know her. I can't imagine her family's pain.

I think the simple explanation that one a UVA student gave early on, that she may have been lost makes a lot of sense. We've had a number of poster who know the area say how it was totally possible to get disoriented in that area as they had personal experience doing the same, getting lost there. She'd only lived off-campus for those first two weeks. Lost, under-age, not able to enter a bar, so she keeps moving to where it may be more familiar, more of a crowd, more safety even, after having passed all those isolated areas. She may have been familiar with how to get back from the mall to "The Corner" near her apartment either on foot or trying to catch a bus that may have been running until last call. Either of those reasons would explain the brisk pace on the "Sal's" video, like she knew where she was headed, until she ran into the perp.

 

[Skigirl]

I totally agree. There's something missing that the videotapes alone can't tell us.

I think at trial we're going to learn a lot more that we don't know now and that things will make a lot more sense. No less tragic, but not as puzzling. Maybe there's more video prior to McGrady's, maybe we'll hear more from friends about what she said her plans were, no doubt we'll learn the contents of some of the texts that lead LE to believe she was lost. It's just hard to be a curious person who cares about the case and not wonder in the meantime.

 

[Really?]

I

Hi all. I just can't get beyond the fact that she was walking at that hour alone on a weekend (aka party, social time) night. That just stumps me like IDK what. Was there an argument? Not that anyone would admit to it now, but I have to wonder. It just doesn't make sense. This is so horribly sad, but all these cases get to me in some way or another and break my heart for these people and their families. I just cannot figure out the WHY was she there and the fact that no one has shed light on that. Perhaps someone has offered explanations and we are not privy to it. The white guy in the shadows still bothers me, but surely they have ID'd and cleared him. (?) Not saying that JM is not guilty; I'm just saying that the white dude gave me the serious chilly creeps on the video. Also, as mentioned, I'm also stumped as to why she didnt' reach out for help.... anywhere. There were people milling about. I'm just stumped.

Long time lurker who came out to post.
Hugs

I with all that do find it strange that Hannah was by herself that night.

I didn't go to parties in high school. Nope, no college or college parties for me.

Anyway...... I did find myself in a situation where I didn't want to be in my apartment at 1 or 2 in the morning once. I wanted to go to my parents house. A fifteen minute walk. This is 1980. I knew enough then to dress up as like a dude and change my gait till I made it to their door.

It is a shame that a young woman has been murdered. Safety in numbers.....

I think people when were with her that night are keeping quiet.

I think she was meeting a guy. 'moo

 

[ILOKAL]

I think the simple explanation that one a UVA student gave early on, that she may have been lost makes a lot of sense. We've had a number of poster who know the area say how it was totally possible to get disoriented in that area as they had personal experience doing the same, getting lost there. She'd only lived off-campus for those first two weeks. Lost, under-age, not able to enter a bar, so she keeps moving to where it may be more familiar, more of a crowd, more safety even, after having passed all those isolated areas. She may have been familiar with how to get back from the mall to "The Corner" near her apartment either on foot or trying to catch a bus that may have been running until last call. Either of those reasons would explain the brisk pace on the "Sal's" video, like she knew where she was headed, until she ran into the perp.

So many of the suggestions I've read about the norm for UVA kids, how easy it is to get lost/turned around, liking to party, staying near camus, she had set out to party 1, then to party 2 and was heading to party 3 . . . . Take your pick. What no one has said that I recall, is that it is the norm for college kids to want to party near The Corner, go from party to party and THEN walk for an hour to do what!? . . . . Attend ANOTHER party in an area where the college kids never usually go? See, it doesn't compute to say many do this and many do that so that's what Hannah was probably doing that night, because her scenario has already proven not to be the norm.

 

[Skigirl]

So, yes, I do go out on my own, but when certain risky situations arise, I demur. Not much one can do about attacks like the one JM's Fairfax rape victim endured. But Hannah's fate was preventable She went off willingly with someone without letting anyone know. False security perhaps in that a number of people did see her leave with him. It's not as though she met JM in some dark alley, without anyone knowing It didn't take but a few days after Hannah was reported missing before LE was able to place him with her, and track down that he was the last person seen with her and where it was. But little good it did her

Dang, he was bold just taking her when people saw her with him, people who knew him and could ID him. And he still did what he did. You'd think that he was seen with her would have been some deterrant.

I would guess his willingness to be seen with her by so many people probably did make her think it was safe Even as a pretty well educated person, watching the videos, I would have said she was safer, not in more danger, when she entered the mall. Imagine how differently the story could have turned out if WG had had a chance to offer assistance before JM did

 

[CanSleuth]

I agree. LE has gone through Hannah's computer, social media accounts, as well as JM's. Both party's cell phone records have been scrutinized, I'm sure So if there has every been any interaction between the two, LE would have found it. At most, perhaps he looked familiar to her, that maybe, maybe they met in person, but I doubt any planned meetings was in the works.

I also doubt that HG had a pre-arranged meeting with JLM, and I also doubt that they knew each other--at least not well. JLM is almost twice HG's age, and they seem to come from different worlds, so to speak. I can't imagine that they were friends, or that there was a romantic interest, nor do I believe HG contacted him for any reason (such as to buy drugs). I do think it is possible that their paths may have crossed, considering they live in the same community. Perhaps they shop at the same grocery store, or maybe they met casually at the medical clinic. I would think JLM, with is size and dreads, would be a face that someone as smart as HG would not forget. When I was in university I took a Social Psychology course. One of the things I learned was that 'familiarity breeds liking'. Essentially, people attribute more positive characteristics and trust to faces that look familar. Perhaps HG and JLM had met previously in the community. This would explain how JLM noticed her walking, and why HG was receptive to his company. JLM could have said something like, "Hey, remember me from the store?...its not safe for a young girl to be out here alone. Let me help you get home". Considering that HG might have been lost, tired, frustrated, drunk, and scared, JLM's 'familiar face' seemed like exactly what she was looking for.

 

[RSC]

I was also a good student, responsible and and an athlete (at UVA) and I agree with this 100%. For me, her "walkabout" really doesn't seem so out of the ordinary.

Agreed. In fact, it's interesting that you say this, as I was so prone to doing this that my friends dismissed my disappearance from parties as "oh, she's just going on one of her walkabouts." I would have done EVERY SINGLE THING that we have record of HG doing.

 

[Skigirl]

I also doubt that HG had a pre-arranged meeting with JLM, and I also doubt that they knew each other--at least not well. JLM is almost twice HG's age, and they seem to come from different worlds, so to speak. I can't imagine that they were friends, or that there was a romantic interest, nor do I believe HG contacted him for any reason (such as to buy drugs). I do think it is possible that their paths may have crossed, considering they live in the same community. Perhaps they shop at the same grocery store, or maybe they met casually at the medical clinic. I would think JLM, with is size and dreads, would be a face that someone as smart as HG would not forget. When I was in university I took a Social Psychology course. One of the things I learned was that 'familiarity breeds liking'. Essentially, people attribute more positive characteristics and trust to faces that look familar. Perhaps HG and JLM had met previously in the community. This would explain how JLM noticed her walking, and why HG was receptive to his company. JLM could have said something like, "Hey, remember me from the store?...its not safe for a young girl to be out here alone. Let me help you get home". Considering that HG might have been lost, tired, frustrated, drunk, and scared, JLM's 'familiar face' seemed like exactly what she was looking for.

In a lot of college towns there are local "characters" that become familiar to everyone because they are doing something eccentric, or are super friendly and greet everyone, or because they stand on a box and preach, or strum the guitar tunelessly for hours, or they are always sitting in a certain coffee shop day in, day out, etc. etc. etc. I've always wondered if she felt comfortable with him as quickly as she did because he was a familiar Charlottesville "character," someone that a lot of people felt they knew even when they really had only seen him around a lot. I know when I was in college, there were a number of people like that around town that, if they had come over and struck up a conversation, would have seemed like acquaintances even though I had never really talked with them one-on-one.

 

[RSC]

I think LE and those at the parties know where she was at those times. Apparently these days, it's not uncommon to have your own agenda and it includes lone walkabouts. She wanted to party hop--hit a number of spots for her own reasons and others did not want to tag along. Roommates didn't want to go to Party1, so she went alone. Wanted to leave and go to Party2, and noone else with the same plan. After Party2, someone has stepped forward and said he offered to walk her home and she declined. She was going to Party3 which was a bit of a way from where she was the opposite direction, from where she headed. She was in contact with people there from what LE has said via texts and phone calls Even said she was lost Even asked if someone could come get her. But bear in mind , they were partying and probably drinking and whether they even got to her texts right then and there is questionalbe. Might not have even heard the ping of the text.

It's not even a "these days" thing, IMO. I was in college more than 20 years ago, and I did it then.
I also don't think that 45 minutes of "unknown" time is all that strange, and assume someone may know already. She may have been sitting with a friend on a curb doing shots. Maybe she was on the phone with someone. These perhaps aren't details that LE would have bothered to share, as she was tracked to the mall fairly quickly, and JM was identified as the primary suspect very quickly.

 

[themom]

It doesn't seem that many things happened that night, into the morning was part of any plan. It was spontaneous, IMO. Whether she had an interaction with a drug and alcohol, was mixing hard liquor with beer, had taken some drug either willingly or not, I don't know if we'll ever know. She apparently was with one group of people, then split off to go to two parties, and was suppose to meet up with some of the people from earlier for the last party she never made it to. Why? I don't know. Maybe she had friends in groups of interest, and not many of them overlapped groups? I know she mentioned the ski club in her tweets, and seemed rather active with that group. Maybe one group was her roommates? Another some people from a class..but not a part of the ski club?

Sadly her actions aren't too unlike other missing teens we've seen. Especially when partying has been involved. The thinking becomes altered, and their actions therefore make no sense to those of us that aren't altered. JMO.

She posted a tweet on Sept 9 about being really sick. I wonder if she had taken something for her sickness that may have interacted with the alcohol. No verification that she was actually taking any meds for her sept 9 "french plague" as she refers to it as. JMO

 

[FindHG]

So many of the suggestions I've read about the norm for UVA kids, how easy it is to get lost/turned around, liking to party, staying near camus, she had set out to party 1, then to party 2 and was heading to party 3 . . . . Take your pick. What no one has said that I recall, is that it is the norm for college kids to want to party near The Corner, go from party to party and THEN walk for an hour to do what!? . . . . Attend ANOTHER party in an area where the college kids never usually go? See, it doesn't compute to say many do this and many do that so that's what Hannah was probably doing that night, because her scenario has already proven not to be the norm.

The idea that she was lost, disoriented trying to make her way back to some place familiar where she had her bearings before her paths crossed with the perp doesn't compute for you? Even though her fellow students, others familiar with the area, say it is possible, not to mention her texts with friends left LE with that impression as stated in the Chief Longo's press conference. It doesn't compute for you even though another girl who was disoriented may have had a similar experience with the same perp, that would be Morgan Harrington. In addition, even though the mother of two young girls reported the perp propositioning them to hangout, even though he was said by taxi colleague to have gotten in trouble for harassing women and offering free rides. There's no evidence she was trying to score drugs, or meet anyone other than her group of friends at a party she had trouble locating. I don't understand how you compute. Maybe if you explained based on information that has come out thus far I might understand what you're getting at.

 

[FindHG]

Remains belong to missing Virginia student
O'Dell reported from Richmond, Va. Associated Press Writer
Michael Felberbaum in Richmond contributed to this report.
Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 4:00 am
http://www.eagletribune.com/news/re...cle_2e7722fa-9bcd-5925-a700-e908de85cb5d.html

(Had missed this report from a couple of days ago)
Students at the University of Virginia are planning a special memorial for Hannah Graham after human remains found on an abandoned property were positively identified.
http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/students-plan-special-memorial-for-hannah-graham/vCykL3/

 

[Starliam]

I'm sorry if I say something that has been said alredy, but I can't remember it. I just wanted to say that to me it's strange that she went to McGrady's pub. I live in Charlottesville, really close to where she was partying that night. From there, if you want to go Downtown, you just have to walk on Main Street: it's a pretty straightforward street, and you can arrive there in 15-20 minutes. I usually walk to go Downtown, because it's faster to walk (sometimes) that waiting for the bus. But she walked all the way on 14th street, went to Grady and then to Preston: she made it really longer. And the area in which there is the pub is a sort of residential area: there is nothing there, except for McGrady's pub and the near brewery. You go there only if you need to go to th pub and the brewery.
It's possible that she was searching for some friends, that she thought were at McGrady's? But why didn't she call them first, before doing all that street? Probably it's nothing, but I think that she wanted to go to McGrady's before going Downtown for a reason.

 

[ILOKAL]

The idea that she was lost, disoriented trying to make her way back to some place familiar where she had her bearings before her paths crossed with the perp doesn't compute for you? Even though her fellow students, others familiar with the area, say it is possible, not to mention her texts with friends left LE with that impression as stated in the Chief Longo's press conference. It doesn't compute for you even though another girl who was disoriented may have had a similar experience with the same perp, that would be Morgan Harrington. In addition, even though the mother of two young girls reported the perp propositioning them to hangout, even though he was said by taxi colleague to have gotten in trouble for harassing women and offering free rides. There's no evidence she was trying to score drugs, or meet anyone other than her group of friends at a party she had trouble locating. I don't understand how you compute. Maybe if you explained based on information that has come out thus far I might understand what you're getting at.

Please retread my post - it doesn't address whatsoever Hannah's encounter and subsequent abduction with JLM! I don't question it in my post nor in my opinion of what happened! So what in my post ARE you responding to? Thank you!

 

[CanSleuth]

I'm sorry if I say something that has been said alredy, but I can't remember it. I just wanted to say that to me it's strange that she went to McGrady's pub. I live in Charlottesville, really close to where she was partying that night. From there, if you want to go Downtown, you just have to walk on Main Street: it's a pretty straightforward street, and you can arrive there in 15-20 minutes. I usually walk to go Downtown, because it's faster to walk (sometimes) that waiting for the bus. But she walked all the way on 14th street, went to Grady and then to Preston: she made it really longer. And the area in which there is the pub is a sort of residential area: there is nothing there, except for McGrady's pub and the near brewery. You go there only if you need to go to th pub and the brewery.
It's possible that she was searching for some friends, that she thought were at McGrady's? But why didn't she call them first, before doing all that street? Probably it's nothing, but I think that she wanted to go to McGrady's before going Downtown for a reason.

Maybe HG was searching for friends at McGrady's but because it took her so long to get there (because she travelled such a mixed up route) her friends had already left, leaving HG sort of 'lost' and confused as to where to go or what to do next.

 

[FindHG]

Please retread my post - it doesn't address whatsoever Hannah's encounter and subsequent abduction with JLM! I don't question it in my post nor in my opinion of what happened! So what in my post ARE you responding to? Thank you!

I was responding to what you wrote, in particular this line.

"See, it doesn't compute to say many do this and many do that so that's what Hannah was probably doing that night, because her scenario has already proven not to be the norm."

 

[4 Free Speech]

I'm sorry if I say something that has been said alredy, but I can't remember it. I just wanted to say that to me it's strange that she went to McGrady's pub. I live in Charlottesville, really close to where she was partying that night. From there, if you want to go Downtown, you just have to walk on Main Street: it's a pretty straightforward street, and you can arrive there in 15-20 minutes. I usually walk to go Downtown, because it's faster to walk (sometimes) that waiting for the bus. But she walked all the way on 14th street, went to Grady and then to Preston: she made it really longer. And the area in which there is the pub is a sort of residential area: there is nothing there, except for McGrady's pub and the near brewery. You go there only if you need to go to th pub and the brewery.
It's possible that she was searching for some friends, that she thought were at McGrady's? But why didn't she call them first, before doing all that street? Probably it's nothing, but I think that she wanted to go to McGrady's before going Downtown for a reason.

I also think she was looking for someone/something at McGrady's.

I have watched this video a few times, focusing on the other people at Mcgrady's and Hannah. I wish there was an audio version. Watch the guy in the center of the video at .44 get up, watch his body language and watch Hannahs in the right corner of the screen at the same time. If I was LE I would want to know who this guy was also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxveJ7SdJw

 

[ILOKAL]

I was responding to what you wrote, in particular this line.

"See, it doesn't compute to say many do this and many do that so that's what Hannah was probably doing that night, because her scenario has already proven not to be the norm."

The focus of my post was it was not the norm for students to travel the distance Hannah traveled to an area that most students, including Hannah, wouldn't have been familiar with and was NOTHING about her meeting JLM. It seems as though there would have been a specific reason for her to go where she went especially since most here believe most of her travels after having left the second party appeared purposeful except for the time she is seen at McGrady's Pub. And no, for the record, I don't believe any of Hannah's plans that night included JLM specifically.

 

[4 Free Speech]

I also think she was looking for someone/something at McGrady's.

I have watched this video a few times, focusing on the other people at Mcgrady's and Hannah. I wish there was an audio version. Watch the guy in the center of the video at .44 get up, watch his body language and watch Hannahs in the right corner of the screen at the same time. If I was LE I would want to know who this guy was also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxveJ7SdJw

This is a longer uncut version of the same timeframe. Watch the guy in the center of the video, watch his body language, he seems to be very much aware of Hannah. He gets up and leaves the bar at 3:39. Makes a stance to acknowledge her, she seems to stop and acknowledge him also. This video version is 4 minutes longer, and therefore contains more information. JMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy43pVr2Ixw

 

[Priester]

Maybe HG was searching for friends at McGrady's but because it took her so long to get there (because she travelled such a mixed up route) her friends had already left, leaving HG sort of 'lost' and confused as to where to go or what to do next.

I'm sure LE has analyzed her texts. I hope we will eventually have the answers.