Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[jamicat]

If walking alone at 1 am is not considered out of the ordinary then we need to rethink (imo) what is ordinary. Anyone, males and females, but let's face it especially females, can't be out alone at that hour. If it's thought of as OK, then we need to change how we think of things. Someone posted a warning from a marshal about, "you can do anything alone safely....as long as you don't cross paths with the monster." I'm not in any way blaming Hannah. Obviously she felt safe. Or she was feeling safe at the onset or some point and then got confused or lost. NOT BLAMING HER. Just saying if the walkabout is a regular thing, it needs not to be a regular thing. That's sad; I know. Sad that folks can't walk around safely alone at 1 am, but they can't.

They, meaning college students do it all of the time and in bad shape too. I can swear to that. Have seen it with my own eyes, cried with the moms who lost their sons that way. It's not a male/female thing though I daresay the stats of abduction/rape of females is a lot higher. But about 20 years ago, a young man we knew was abducted from a shopping center parking lot, not drunk, not late at night, an athlete, and killed. Went to the same private school that my son attended, John J Baglier. Can happen any time to anyone. But the odds can be greatly reduced by not going out a lone at night, under the influencee, and when others watch out for friends and those at gatherings This should not have happened with Hannah.

The problem is that a lot of college students are walking around alone at 1am and often not in full cognitve state, and get home safely most of the time, so that cases like this are outlier and so these young people think it's perfectly safe and fine.

 

[lillygator]

why have we heard so little from friends she was with that night?

 

[FindHG]

the garage she was running by on the cctv is on Preston, maybe it was around this time the text was sent?

She's clearly putting her phone back in the McGrady video.

 

[Jmm124567]

why have we heard so little from friends she was with that night?

LE probably has told them not to talk to the media

 

[FindHG]

why have we heard so little from friends she was with that night?

I think it would be safe to assume that they've been asked not to speak publicly as I would imagine would be case with most of the witnesses who's testimony and information would come up in the trail, such as his room-mates who have been reported to be cooperating. The friends more than most would want the person responsible to be well prosecuted, I think it would be safe to assume.

 

[Skigirl]

If walking alone at 1 am is not considered out of the ordinary then we need to rethink (imo) what is ordinary. Anyone, males and females, but let's face it especially females, can't be out alone at that hour. If it's thought of as OK, then we need to change how we think of things. Someone posted a warning from a marshal about, "you can do anything alone safely....as long as you don't cross paths with the monster." I'm not in any way blaming Hannah. Obviously she felt safe. Or she was feeling safe at the onset or some point and then got confused or lost. NOT BLAMING HER. Just saying if the walkabout is a regular thing, it needs not to be a regular thing. That's sad; I know. Sad that folks can't walk around safely alone at 1 am, but they can't.

I agree, after midnight, in poorly-lit, sparsely crowded places is unsafe. But what is safe? And what is an acceptable trade-off between safety and living life?

Last night I went to dinner downtown with a friend after a business meeting. We started early and finished dinner at 9:30 or so. I had had one drink. Her car was closer than mine, and the street we were on was one-way street in a different direction from my car, so even though she offered to drive me, it would have involved about fifteen minutes of around the block/one way streets/stop lights, and it didn't seem worth it so we parted ways and I walked the two blocks to my car alone. But it was dark, and I could almost see the surveillance video of myself and read the discussions here on Websleuths about my strange disappearance and how foolish I was to walk by myself at night and after having a drink, no less.

On the one hand, life would be very safe if we all sat in our homes after dark, and if women were always escorted by men, and at that only male relatives, and failing that, always traveled everywhere together and were not allowed out otherwise (sound familiar?) but on the other hand, we have to live our lives. It's a tough to know where to draw the line. What about in the winter when it's dark at 5? Do we have to stay in after 5 PM? 6? is 10 PM acceptable? 11? What about getting up early in the morning? Is it safe to go for a jog at 5? 6? Or do I have to buy a treadmill now?:thinking:

 

[jamicat]

I asked how far it was from the apartment to McGrady's and then from McGrady's to the DTM.

YOU answered above in your post #509 which says 15 min walk to McGrady's and then 15 min walk to DTM. So that's what I'm going by when I responded to a subsequent post of yours that said she had walked an hour to get to McGrady's.

Anywho, moving on . . . . How do "we" or LE or ANYONE know what path Hannah traveled to get to McGrady's? Do we even KNOW she walked there? Do we have any way of knowing what she did and where she did it during the 55 min between 11:50 leaving the apartment until arriving at 12:45 at McGrady's?

No one would know her path. I don't know if LE bothered to gather any videos that may have caught her as they did in the mall area or if there are any. Don't know if anyone reported to LE, having seen her and if they could even pin point the time. Many would not be able to give an accurate enough time, I would guess as one doesn't often track these things.

It is possilbe that maybe don't know if it is, those who might know do chime in, that phone records could maybe so indicate. She was apparently on her phone for during her journey. LE doesn't have her phone but they have the records, and also can tell who she was calling, texting. Would the GPS in an iPhone keep any such info? And how accurate if it did? That is a possibility. The pnone seems to have been useless in track her once she was at the mall as it went dead, whether deliberately or battery dying or both.

I don't think LE was so concerned about her activities before she met up with JM The crux of the matter is what happened in the hours after she left the mall with JM is vital Focus would be on that.

 

[frisson]

Quote Originally Posted by frisson

If walking alone at 1 am is not considered out of the ordinary then we need to rethink (imo) what is ordinary. Anyone, males and females, but let's face it especially females, can't be out alone at that hour. If it's thought of as OK, then we need to change how we think of things. Someone posted a warning from a marshal about, "you can do anything alone safely....as long as you don't cross paths with the monster." I'm not in any way blaming Hannah. Obviously she felt safe. Or she was feeling safe at the onset or some point and then got confused or lost. NOT BLAMING HER. Just saying if the walkabout is a regular thing, it needs not to be a regular thing. That's sad; I know. Sad that folks can't walk around safely alone at 1 am, but they can't.

I agree, after midnight, in poorly-lit, sparsely crowded places is unsafe. But what is safe? And what is an acceptable trade-off between safety and living life?

Last night I went to dinner downtown with a friend after a business meeting. We started early and finished dinner at 9:30 or so. I had had one drink. Her car was closer than mine, and the street we were on was one-way street in a different direction from my car, so even though she offered to drive me, it would have involved about fifteen minutes of around the block/one way streets/stop lights, and it didn't seem worth it so we parted ways and I walked the two blocks to my car alone. But it was dark, and I could almost see the surveillance video of myself and read the discussions here on Websleuths about my strange disappearance and how foolish I was to walk by myself at night and after having a drink, no less.

On the one hand, life would be very safe if we all sat in our homes after dark, and if women were always escorted by men, and at that only male relatives, and failing that, always traveled everywhere together and were not allowed out otherwise (sound familiar?) but on the other hand, we have to live our lives. It's a tough to know where to draw the line. What about in the winter when it's dark at 5? Do we have to stay in after 5 PM? 6? is 10 PM acceptable? 11? What about getting up early in the morning? Is it safe to go for a jog at 5? 6? Or do I have to buy a treadmill now?:thinking:

I think jogging around one's neighborhood at 5 or 6 is different from walking alone in town after drinking at 1 am. I see your point, but my thought was that it's just not worth the risk. People can still live life. I wasn't saying women should stay home with the curtains drawn and only go out with a male relative. I didn't mean that at all. I'll go back to lurking.

 

[themom]

If you watch the long version of the McGrady's video, she's lingers off camera to the right, after having walked around and peered in, then the bouncer at the end of the railing is facing her as she walks up, he seems to have noticed her when she's off camera. She seems to walk up to him and exchange words then, before she walks off again. Does that sound right to you?

Yes. I need to watch it again to see the bouncer looking at her off camera. I wonder if she initially went to the other door thinking it was McGradys

 

[jamicat]

I agree, after midnight, in poorly-lit, sparsely crowded places is unsafe. But what is safe? And what is an acceptable trade-off between safety and living life?

Last night I went to dinner downtown with a friend after a business meeting. We started early and finished dinner at 9:30 or so. I had had one drink. Her car was closer than mine, and the street we were on was one-way street in a different direction from my car, so even though she offered to drive me, it would have involved about fifteen minutes of around the block/one way streets/stop lights, and it didn't seem worth it so we parted ways and I walked the two blocks to my car alone. But it was dark, and I could almost see the surveillance video of myself and read the discussions here on Websleuths about my strange disappearance and how foolish I was to walk by myself at night and after having a drink, no less.

On the one hand, life would be very safe if we all sat in our homes after dark, and if women were always escorted by men, and at that only male relatives, and failing that, always traveled everywhere together and were not allowed out otherwise (sound familiar?) but on the other hand, we have to live our lives. It's a tough to know where to draw the line. What about in the winter when it's dark at 5? Do we have to stay in after 5 PM? 6? is 10 PM acceptable? 11? What about getting up early in the morning? Is it safe to go for a jog at 5? 6? Or do I have to buy a treadmill now?:thinking:

I agree with so fully. I was ever so tempted to take up a ride offer this summer when I dropped off my car for a repair and the shop couldn't give me the usual ride home I live a five minute ride away but it's a mile and a half up hill walk and it was hot that day. I'm an older woman, so what's the harm in taking up on such a short ride offer from someone that i truly believe was just being nice? But, I regretfull, and believe me, I felt that regret< turned him down. And I wasn't on Websleiths then. Another time, I stopped off a busy street into a driveway when I saw a small bookcase set out for throwaway or the taking. Man right outside the garage, invited me into his house to look at all the stuff he was going to be throwing out. Almost went there, and realized how stupid that could be. I could vanish without a trace like that.

So, yes, I do go out on my own, but when certain risky situations arise, I demur. Not much one can do about attacks like the one JM's Fairfax rape victim endured. But Hannah's fate was preventable She went off willingly with someone without letting anyone know. False security perhaps in that a number of people did see her leave with him. It's not as though she met JM in some dark alley, without anyone knowing It didn't take but a few days after Hannah was reported missing before LE was able to place him with her, and track down that he was the last person seen with her and where it was. But little good it did her

Dang, he was bold just taking her when people saw her with him, people who knew him and could ID him. And he still did what he did. You'd think that he was seen with her would have been some deterrant.

 

[Skigirl]

I think jogging around one's neighborhood at 5 or 6 is different from walking alone in town after drinking at 1 am. I see your point, but my thought was that it's just not worth the risk. People can still live life. I wasn't saying women should stay home with the curtains drawn and only go out with a male relative. I didn't mean that at all. I'll go back to lurking.

I didn't mean to drive you into lurking. I was just sort of musing aloud at how hard it is for women and where we draw the line between safety and living life and whether we overestimate some risks and underestimate others (adjusted for the base-rate, the dinner I ate was probably worse for me than the two blocks I walked alone due to the number of calories and the amount of saturated fat and the fact that heart disease and diabetes are epidemics but we're used to them, and abductions are rare but very salient). No offense intended at all.

 

[FindHG]

I think jogging around one's neighborhood at 5 or 6 is different from walking alone in town after drinking at 1 am. I see your point, but my thought was that it's just not worth the risk. People can still live life. I wasn't saying women should stay home with the curtains drawn and only go out with a male relative. I didn't mean that at all. I'll go back to lurking.

Hey, stick around. It's kind of you to share your thoughts. You haven't been offensive or off-topic at all. Glad you're pitching in.

 

[hambirg]

Last night I went to dinner downtown with a friend after a business meeting. We started early and finished dinner at 9:30 or so. I had had one drink. Her car was closer than mine, and the street we were on was one-way street in a different direction from my car, so even though she offered to drive me, it would have involved about fifteen minutes of around the block/one way streets/stop lights, and it didn't seem worth it so we parted ways and I walked the two blocks to my car alone. But it was dark, and I could almost see the surveillance video of myself and read the discussions here on Websleuths about my strange disappearance and how foolish I was to walk by myself at night and after having a drink, no less.

SBM. . .BBM

I'm glad I'm not the only one that does this.

Last week in the grocery store parking lot, a creepy van pulled up along side me as I was about to get out of my car. I figured I would wait a little bit because I could just imagine a thread here on WS with video of me getting out and grabbed into the van. . .and everyone posting, "what was she thinking?!" :facepalm:

 

[frisson]

I didn't mean to drive you into lurking. I was just sort of musing aloud at how hard it is for women and where we draw the line between safety and living life and whether we overestimate some risks and underestimate others (adjusted for the base-rate, the dinner I ate was probably worse for me than the two blocks I walked alone due to the number of calories and the amount of saturated fat and the fact that heart disease and diabetes are epidemics but we're used to them, and abductions are rare but very salient). No offense intended at all.

Thanks for that. I feel a little lost because I can't figure out why she was alone. Ok, let's say there's a party. Surely she wasn't the only one going to it. Why walk all that way (however short it was) alone at that hour? There must have been others going to the same party, right? ...Unless it wasn't a party. That's what haunts me. What was she doing? Is there something else on her phone that we don't know? The friends are conspicuously quiet. Was it normal for Hannah to take off walking after midnight alone after drinking? Something is missing from this whole story and it's bothering me so much. Bless her heart. It's really devastating for me and I didn't even know her. I can't imagine her family's pain.

 

[jamicat]

I didn't mean to drive you into lurking. I was just sort of musing aloud at how hard it is for women and where we draw the line between safety and living life and whether we overestimate some risks and underestimate others (adjusted for the base-rate, the dinner I ate was probably worse for me than the two blocks I walked alone due to the number of calories and the amount of saturated fat and the fact that heart disease and diabetes are epidemics but we're used to them, and abductions are rare but very salient). No offense intended at all.

There are always risks. Actually given what happens to college coeds each year, the chances are greater of getting raped by classmates. The number of college women disappearing off campus each year, is small. But then, there are warnings to little ones not to talk to strangers from day one. Not to accept rides from strangers. Then again, some are saying it's possible JM was not a stranger. And when MH possibly got a ride from JM, he was likely a cabbie. I mean what do you do when, tipsy, alone, need to get home? Get a cab. And the cabbie turns out to be a serial rapist and killer? What are the odds?

The thing that gets me is in the cases of three young coeds disappearing (2 definitely killed), they all had cell phones, and somehow the phones were out of commission. Maybe something as simple as a quick pic of the license or the guy immediately texted to a friend would have made a difference. But Lauren left her cell phone, MH's was found sans battery near where she was last seen, and Hannah's went dead at a crucial time. My kids seem to low on cell phone battery or have dead phones a lot when needed too. But those young women were without at very crucial times.

 

[Bonacker]

To me, it's completely implausible that the person HG was looking for or planning to meet --- if she was indeed out looking to rendezvous with someone -- was JLM. (A few people have suggested this as a possibility in this thread.) For one, if she were going for a rendezvous with JLM --- or was wandering the city in hopes of bumping into JLM --- why would she go to McGrady's, and peer in the window? She wasn't looking for JLM at McGrady's. Furthermore, why would JLM, who loves/craves getting young women into his car, plan a rendezvous with a young woman such as HG . . . and then not offer her a ride? go pick her up? I find that theory redunk-ulous. Sorry to be blunt.

ETA: For me, yes, sure, young college women go out walking alone, from party to party or friendly group to friendly group. I walked all over NYC in college! But do they go wandering for over an hour, thru super-non-pedestrian-friendly and even scary areas, alone, on purpose? No way. (And if she left the party intending all along to go to the mall, why walk?) No. I personally believe in a combination of "looking for friends/boy/romantic interest" combined with a phone-GPS snafu. Possibly, she was halfway to the Mall before she realized which direction she was headed, so maybe she intentionally continued on towards the mall, as a safe destination, at some point.... but I can't believe she set out intending to go there.

 

[jamicat]

Thanks for that. I feel a little lost because I can't figure out why she was alone. Ok, let's say there's a party. Surely she wasn't the only one going to it. Why walk all that way (however short it was) alone at that hour? There must have been others going to the same party, right? ...Unless it wasn't a party. That's what haunts me. What was she doing? Is there something else on her phone that we don't know? The friends are conspicuously quiet. Was it normal for Hannah to take off walking after midnight alone after drinking? Something is missing from this whole story and it's bothering me so much. Bless her heart. It's really devastating for me and I didn't even know her. I can't imagine her family's pain.

I think LE and those at the parties know where she was at those times. Apparently these days, it's not uncommon to have your own agenda and it includes lone walkabouts. She wanted to party hop--hit a number of spots for her own reasons and others did not want to tag along. Roommates didn't want to go to Party1, so she went alone. Wanted to leave and go to Party2, and noone else with the same plan. After Party2, someone has stepped forward and said he offered to walk her home and she declined. She was going to Party3 which was a bit of a way from where she was the opposite direction, from where she headed. She was in contact with people there from what LE has said via texts and phone calls Even said she was lost Even asked if someone could come get her. But bear in mind , they were partying and probably drinking and whether they even got to her texts right then and there is questionalbe. Might not have even heard the ping of the text.

 

[jamicat]

To me, it's completely implausible that the person HG was looking for or planning to meet --- if she was indeed out looking to rendezvous with someone -- was JLM. (A few people have suggested this as a possibility in this thread.) For one, if she were going for a rendezvous with JLM --- or was wandering the city in hopes of bumping into JLM --- why would she go to McGrady's, and peer in the window? She wasn't looking for JLM at McGrady's. Furthermore, why would JLM, who loves/craves getting young women into his car, plan a rendezvous with a young woman such as HG . . . and then not offer her a ride? go pick her up? I find that theory redunk-ulous. Sorry to be blunt.

I agree. LE has gone through Hannah's computer, social media accounts, as well as JM's. Both party's cell phone records have been scrutinized, I'm sure So if there has every been any interaction between the two, LE would have found it. At most, perhaps he looked familiar to her, that maybe, maybe they met in person, but I doubt any planned meetings was in the works.

 

[ILOKAL]

No one would know her path. I don't know if LE bothered to gather any videos that may have caught her as they did in the mall area or if there are any. Don't know if anyone reported to LE, having seen her and if they could even pin point the time. Many would not be able to give an accurate enough time, I would guess as one doesn't often track these things.

It is possilbe that maybe don't know if it is, those who might know do chime in, that phone records could maybe so indicate. She was apparently on her phone for during her journey. LE doesn't have her phone but they have the records, and also can tell who she was calling, texting. Would the GPS in an iPhone keep any such info? And how accurate if it did? That is a possibility. The pnone seems to have been useless in track her once she was at the mall as it went dead, whether deliberately or battery dying or both.

I don't think LE was so concerned about her activities before she met up with JM The crux of the matter is what happened in the hours after she left the mall with JM is vital Focus would be on that.

I realize that it is not important, at this time, to know what Hannah did during those 55 minutes or whether she walked, was driven, what roads she used, whether she was over intoxicated or drugged at the party, etc. However, so MUCH of the discussion HERE has been about Hannah's behavior, pace, confusion, purposeful or not, looking for someone or not, lost or not, etc. that it only seems reasonable if not imperative to question what happened during that 55 minute time period so perhaps the posters who have been so perplexed can have some of their pounding questions answered.

 

[ILOKAL]

Thanks for that. I feel a little lost because I can't figure out why she was alone. Ok, let's say there's a party. Surely she wasn't the only one going to it. Why walk all that way (however short it was) alone at that hour? There must have been others going to the same party, right? ...Unless it wasn't a party. That's what haunts me. What was she doing? Is there something else on her phone that we don't know? The friends are conspicuously quiet. Was it normal for Hannah to take off walking after midnight alone after drinking? Something is missing from this whole story and it's bothering me so much. Bless her heart. It's really devastating for me and I didn't even know her. I can't imagine her family's pain.

I totally agree. There's something missing that the videotapes alone can't tell us.