Hannah's Journey on 09/13

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Well, here's the problem. She WASN'T walking for an hour as far as we know. It's only a 15 min walk to McGrady's and Hannah has a long stride.

You are wrong. It has been reported she left the last party at 11:50pm. She arrived at McGrady's at 12:45am. She did not take the 15 minute route to McGrady's. She arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. in the opposite direction of the DTM. She did not go straight to McGrady's right after leaving the party.

Between 11:50pm to 12:45am we do not know exactly were she was walking at. What's telling on the McGrady's video is that she arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. in the opposite direction of the DTM but we do not know were she got on Preston at. This means though that when she left the party the direction she had to have been walking in was towards the DTM and at one point or at multiple points she changed direction and headed towards Preston and she ended up on Preston and then walks in the opposite direction of the DTM heading towards UVA and McGrady's. She ends up at McGrady's at 12:45am and then turns around there and walks back down Preston going to the DTM. Preston becomes Market St. and she then took a right onto 2nd St. which takes you right into the DTM.
 
Thanks for clearing that up. To ME, that video at Tuel's Jewelers shows that Hannah was walking with JLM because she WANTED to, not because she was being forced to. She looks calm and precise and doesn't appear to be having ANY problem walking. She DOES appear to be having severe angst and appears somewhat disheveled in the McGrady video. I can't help wonder what happened to Hannah from the time she left the apartment party until we see her walking at McGrady's that put her in that state of mind?

Also, how far is it from the apartment party to McGrady's and then from McGrady's to the DTM?

Me too. I think that missing chunk of time might explain a lot about her walk about that night. However, I'm not sure any of it is really that relevant. Whatever led up to her crossing paths with JM on the mall, isn't all that important now, except the fact that she did. KWIM?

One more thing that occured to me, do we think JM could have pulled the old pretending to know Hannah pick-up move? I was remembering back to my college days when guys would try to pretend you've met before in order to talk to you.

JM: Hey, how ya doin'?
Hannah: Uh yeah, I'm ok. You?
(awkward silence)
JM: We met at that party. Don't you remember? I'm :insert any common name:'s friend.
Hannah: Oh sure. (thinking, not really. But either I'm too drunk to remember now or was too drunk then. Well, he obviously knows me.)

And off they go to get a drink before a ride back to the parties on the Corner.

MOO
 
Hi all. I just can't get beyond the fact that she was walking at that hour alone on a weekend (aka party, social time) night. That just stumps me like IDK what. Was there an argument? Not that anyone would admit to it now, but I have to wonder. It just doesn't make sense. This is so horribly sad, but all these cases get to me in some way or another and break my heart for these people and their families. I just cannot figure out the WHY was she there and the fact that no one has shed light on that. Perhaps someone has offered explanations and we are not privy to it. The white guy in the shadows still bothers me, but surely they have ID'd and cleared him. (?) Not saying that JM is not guilty; I'm just saying that the white dude gave me the serious chilly creeps on the video. Also, as mentioned, I'm also stumped as to why she didnt' reach out for help.... anywhere. There were people milling about. I'm just stumped.

Long time lurker who came out to post.
Hugs
 
I was also a good student, responsible and and an athlete (at UVA) and I agree with this 100%. For me, her "walkabout" really doesn't seem so out of the ordinary.
 
I was a straight A "gifted" student my entire life; also an athlete and very responsible. So responsible, in fact, that I was very new to drinking and being on my own when I left for college 900 miles away.

It is certainly true that Hannah could have had some sort of agenda downtown. But, here is what I see based simply on my own experiences at that age:

She was excited to go out and party with her friends that night, and drank a good deal (based on what we've heard).

She was hopping from activity to activity--dinner, then a party, then to Grady's and at least had one more party on her radar. I did that many times; sometimes, it was because I was looking for a boy I had a crush on. Sometimes, I was trying to cram all the fun in that I possibly could, and didn't want to miss any party, so I tried to go to all of them. And sometimes, I was just restless (and brave) because I was drunk, so I wandered.

At Grady's, she was pretty drunk. She didn't see or get what she was looking for (access to the bar, bathroom, or a person), but wasn't particularly panicked and saw no need to get "help" from the bouncer, since she was an underage girl.

She headed out in the wrong direction from Grady's, and jogged past the gas station because it was a little creepy.
Got to the mall, got a little worried because she hadn't meant to end up there. This is when WG called her "distressed."

JM jumps in with his jovial manner and leads her to a bar. She is around tons of people, so sees no reason to be worried, and figures she will go to the bar and figure out what to do from there.

HERE is where I think control was taken from her. Either JM bought her shots, and this rapidly pushed her into very drunk, or he drugged her. Otherwise, it makes no sense to me that she could barely stand up when she left--she was walking fine in the Tuel's and Sal's videos.

I would have done ALL of those things, up to this point. I was probably very lucky. But none of it seems unusual to me. I don't think she knew she was lost until she saw the mall, which is why she never needed GPS. Because once she saw the mall, she realized she was lost--then she got anxious. I think that is exactly when she would have used her phone--but JM swooped in before she did so. And, honestly, perhaps she was looking for a bathroom before she called friends. If you are drunk and desperately have to use the bathroom, that may take precedent. And may be enough to make someone appear very distressed.

I would NOT have gotten into the car with a stranger. Unless...I was extremely intoxicated or drugged. We have every expectation that she was one of these at this point, per the statement of the door checker. Then, all bets are off.

I think we could conjecture all night about whether she had some big agenda--but I'm not sure why we would, when a very simple scenario is just as likely. We already know JM looks for vulnerable women; she was clearly vulnerable in those videos. I don't see any gain from trying to add complexity to the scenario.
(Not being snarky--just my opinion!)

oops... this is what I was responding too. Sorry for the double post.

I was also a good student, responsible and and an athlete (at UVA) and I agree with this 100%. For me, her "walkabout" really doesn't seem so out of the ordinary.
 
You are wrong. It has been reported she left the last party at 11:50pm. She arrived at McGrady's at 12:45am. She did not take the 15 minute route to McGrady's. She arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. in the opposite direction of the DTM. She did not go straight to McGrady's right after leaving the party.

Between 11:50pm to 12:45am we do not know exactly were she was walking at. What's telling on the McGrady's video is that she arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. but we do not know were she got on Preston at. This means though that when she left the party the direction she had to have been walking in was towards the DTM and at one point or at multiple points she changed direction and headed towards Preston and she ended up on Preston and then walks in the opposite direction of the DTM heading towards UVA and McGrady's. She ends up at McGrady's at 12:45am and then turns around there and walks back down Preston going to the DTM.

I asked how far it was from the apartment to McGrady's and then from McGrady's to the DTM.

YOU answered above in your post #509 which says 15 min walk to McGrady's and then 15 min walk to DTM. So that's what I'm going by when I responded to a subsequent post of yours that said she had walked an hour to get to McGrady's.

Anywho, moving on . . . . How do "we" or LE or ANYONE know what path Hannah traveled to get to McGrady's? Do we even KNOW she walked there? Do we have any way of knowing what she did and where she did it during the 55 min between 11:50 leaving the apartment until arriving at 12:45 at McGrady's?
 
I understand what you're saying, but she's also alone when both entering leaving the apartment building where she's caught on video in the hallway. The way I understand/recall it was that she had arrived and left that party alone, and then went to the next party where she also arrived and left alone (male friend offered to walk her home, she declined). After that, she shows up at McGrady's alone. So for whatever reason, she was going to various places -- not just the Mall -- alone. That makes me doubt that the reason she was alone on the Mall is that she was planning to meet up with JM.

This tragedy resonated with me from the beginning in part because my son graduated from UVA in 2013, and we spent many fun days visiting in Charlottesville. Very pleasant memories I might add, the ones that last a lifetime. The Hannah Graham story has left a dark mark on all the good memories.

From day one I felt as though Hannah was on a mission to meet up with someone. As a second year, she likely knew her way around off grounds at least as far as the DM. And I felt like she must have told someone what her intentions were, before leaving her friends at the party. Maybe that someone has reported this to LE, who knows? The part I don't agree with is that Hannah, at age 18, would be interested in a rendezvous with a 32 year old man, that doesn't add up. We'll never know what actually was going on in her head, only spend countless hours & threads speculating, wondering...
 
Hi all. I just can't get beyond the fact that she was walking at that hour alone on a weekend (aka party, social time) night. That just stumps me like IDK what. Was there an argument? Not that anyone would admit to it now, but I have to wonder. It just doesn't make sense. This is so horribly sad, but all these cases get to me in some way or another and break my heart for these people and their families. I just cannot figure out the WHY was she there and the fact that no one has shed light on that. Perhaps someone has offered explanations and we are not privy to it. The white guy in the shadows still bothers me, but surely they have ID'd and cleared him. (?) Not saying that JM is not guilty; I'm just saying that the white dude gave me the serious chilly creeps on the video. Also, as mentioned, I'm also stumped as to why she didnt' reach out for help.... anywhere. There were people milling about. I'm just stumped.

Long time lurker who came out to post.
Hugs

Nice nick, I've noticed you keeping up with the threads. Thanks for posting your thoughts. It was my impression that she had been communicating with her friends before, only her last "lost" text sent from where she wasn't and the phone signal going silent in the mall area around 1:20am. So she had not been completely out of touch and had an operable IPhone5S sending signals until soon after she met the perp, with his arm around her just where she had her phone tucked as we see on the various videos. The WG panned out with Chief Longo from day one, so any speculation about him would seem unnecessary at this point, with all the reported information, the forensic evidence, the history, the patterns of behavior, the evasiveness, the run to Texas, and so much more available.

*bones*
 
I asked how far it was from the apartment to McGrady's and then from McGrady's to the DTM.

YOU answered above in your post #509 which says 15 min walk to McGrady's and then 15 min walk to DTM. So that's what I'm going by when I responded to a subsequent post of yours that said she had walked an hour to get to McGrady's.

Anywho, moving on . . . . How do "we" or LE or ANYONE know what path Hannah traveled to get to McGrady's? Do we even KNOW she walked there? Do we have any way of knowing what she did and where she did it during the 55 min between 11:50 leaving the apartment until arriving at 12:45 at McGrady's?

To go from the apartment to McGrady's is 15 minutes but HG didn't go straight to McGrady's she didn't go this route. I thought you had known this already. She did walk. McGrady's has surveillance video. She arrived at McGrady's walking up Preston Ave. heading towards UVA. She then turned around at McGrady's and walked down Preston in the opposite direction to go to the DTM.
 
Yeah, I've always had a problem with this, too. In all of my four years at UVa in the late '80s, I can count on one hand how many times I visited the Downtown Mall -- and even then, it was by car, not on foot. I just can't understand how she would continue all the way down Preston Ave. and into the downtown area if she were truly lost. The video at the gas station shows her running, implying to me that she knows it's not safe so she's trying to reach her destination more quickly. If she were trying to make her way back to 14th St., I cannot see how on earth she'd think she was headed in the right direction to get there. As has been mentioned many, many times, Hannah had an iPhone with GPS. Even if she was under the influence of alcohol, I still believe she would have had enough of her senses to use GPS to plug in her destination if she weren't familiar with her surroundings.

I don't know if we'll ever find out what led Hannah to the Downtown Mall that night, but it just does not make sense to me. The distance she covered really does imply to me that she had to know she was headed far away from the UVa part of town. Did she receive a text or information from somebody that would have led her first to McGrady's, and then on to the Downtown Mall? I can't help but think we'll never know.
I agree that something seems off about her not asking for help getting directions earlier in her night, like at McGradys. Or finding a bus stop. It's too strange. My HOPE is that LE knows more than they are letting us in on. Like more info from her texts, or from what she spoke to Mcgradys bouncer about.

On the DTMall, she does not seem lost to me, she looks, as others have said, determined with a destination.
 
To go from the apartment to McGrady's is 15 minutes but HG didn't go straight to McGrady's she didn't go this route. I thought you had known this already. She did walk. McGrady's has surveillance video. She arrived at McGrady's walking up Preston Ave. heading towards UVA. She then turned around at McGrady's and walked down Preston in the opposite direction to go to the DTM.

Here's what I "know" and what I don't know. We see Hannah on video approaching (not arriving) McGrady's at 12:45. We see Hannah appear to leave the area of McGrady's. We see Hannah pass the gas station. We see Hannah in various locations on the DTM.

I don't know how Hannah traveled (by foot or vehicle) from the time she left the apartment at 11:50 until the time we see her approach McGrady's at 12:45 some 55 min later. I don't know what Hannah did or where she did it during the 55 min she is unaccounted for. I'm just trying to get it clear and the videos don't answer those questions. IMO
 
I understand what you're saying, but she's also alone when both entering leaving the apartment building where she's caught on video in the hallway. The way I understand/recall it was that she had arrived and left that party alone, and then went to the next party where she also arrived and left alone (male friend offered to walk her home, she declined). After that, she shows up at McGrady's alone. So for whatever reason, she was going to various places -- not just the Mall -- alone. That makes me doubt that the reason she was alone on the Mall is that she was planning to meet up with JM.

I think it's sort of odd, because I always went to parties with other people (usually they were the ones who knew where the parties were and had charted the course for the evening and I was just going with the flow). But since she was on the ski team but also probably had friends from her first year dorm and other activities, maybe the parties she was attending were with different groups that didn't mix much, hence she would have gone alone without having friends from one group come along to a party with the other group or groups.

As a mom of lots of college kids, recently graduated and in college still, and having visited many "college towns", I can tell you that it's not at all unusual for singletons going with their own flows. I saw lot of college kids out on their own, and my kids do the same--and I've warned, am still warning them, and will warn them, to use a body system, but they simply do not.

The mother of Lauren Spierer, a missing IU student, very sadly noted seeing lone coeds in the very area where Lauren had walked the day she disappeared at the same time of the morning, and inebriated as well. As if this with Lauren had not even happened. The early hours when Lauren was out brought at least two other lone young females who were out and about, but had not seen Lauren during their walk in the same area. We just went out with a couple who are parents of an IU alum, and they said they'd seen the same in that area. All in the wake of a student who disappeared, going it a lone.

Two of my friends lost their children when they went off alone and not in good shape on a party night. Neither due to nefarious scenaris, but one most definitely would have been alive had he not been by himself when he started a trek home late at night and drunk, the other might have had a chance, when he tripped and cracked his head. But nope, they were alone. This is dangerous for men and women alike.

This never happened when I was in colleges, though that was back in the Dark Ages, I guess. We always went in groups. I don't remember a time anyone went of by herself. But these days they do.

My son often goes off without his roommates who have other interests, meets up with one group of friends and then continues to another. Considers it the norm. He tends to stay within the bounds of where the university students live, in a city much bigger than Charlottesville. When I was in Charlottesville this summer, I got the distinct impression that the offcampus undergrads tended to stay right in the Corner area, and did not tend to venture often from there and from university grounds. Other posters here who are familiar with UVA student culture indicate the same. I guess within that area, people come and go without much thought as it's all home territory Hannah was out wearing a scanty top, carrying no purse, and shoes not exactly made for the long haul. My guess is that she had a number of parties that she intended the hit that evening. Every indication from what LE has said about her contact with UVA friends via phone and text--and there was contact while she was "lost" (and LE thinks she was lost, went the wrong way) . She was heading to a specific place is what they indicate and did not get there, finding herself in the mall area instead.

Drunk and probably preoccupied with her cell phone, she probably took a circuitous route to the mall area, is my guess. Not quite sure of exactly where she was heading, but thinking she knew how to get there. LE seems to know where she wanted to go, and there were classmates, friends there with whom she was in contact. My guess is that she was surprised to find herself at the mall which Longo indicated was the exact opposite way that she had intended to go. She'd gotten her bearing backwards. She did let classmates know she was lost. If the case ever goes to trial or the info is released, we may get the entirity of the texts and exchanges she had with her friends and classmates until her phone went dead. I really think her battery died, as that's been my experience with young people, another danger of late night to early morning forays. Cell phone batteries could very well be at the end of their viability by that time. Just when the phone might most be needed.

Another guess, from the report that she turned down an offer from a student who said he would walk her home. She had no plans to go home, wasn't interested in him coming with her to wherever she was going. Whether she was trying to shake him because she had no interest in him and didn't him around that evening, or whatever, it is notable that he thought she was going HOME, and she did not correct him, it seems, as that is how his comments have been released.
 
If walking alone at 1 am is not considered out of the ordinary then we need to rethink (imo) what is ordinary. Anyone, males and females, but let's face it especially females, can't be out alone at that hour. If it's thought of as OK, then we need to change how we think of things. Someone posted a warning from a marshal about, "you can do anything alone safely....as long as you don't cross paths with the monster." I'm not in any way blaming Hannah. Obviously she felt safe. Or she was feeling safe at the onset or some point and then got confused or lost. NOT BLAMING HER. Just saying if the walkabout is a regular thing, it needs not to be a regular thing. That's sad; I know. Sad that folks can't walk around safely alone at 1 am, but they can't.
 
You are wrong. It has been reported she left the last party at 11:50pm. She arrived at McGrady's at 12:45am. She did not take the 15 minute route to McGrady's. She arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. in the opposite direction of the DTM. She did not go straight to McGrady's right after leaving the party.

Between 11:50pm to 12:45am we do not know exactly were she was walking at. What's telling on the McGrady's video is that she arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. in the opposite direction of the DTM but we do not know were she got on Preston at. This means though that when she left the party the direction she had to have been walking in was towards the DTM and at one point or at multiple points she changed direction and headed towards Preston and she ended up on Preston and then walks in the opposite direction of the DTM heading towards UVA and McGrady's. She ends up at McGrady's at 12:45am and then turns around there and walks back down Preston going to the DTM. Preston becomes Market St. and she then took a right onto 2nd St. which takes you right into the DTM.

If she was walking that whole time, how is she drunk at McGradys? Because we know she was at the party for less than an hour ...unless they were drinking moonshine I just don't get it. Also, I doubt there was any drinking in the restaurant before that because they are underage and eating dinner. So she gets a window of 45 mins at the party to drink, then she makes her trek to McGradys? I have a feeling she stopped somewhere else, we just don't know where and what occurred.
 
I agree that something seems off about her not asking for help getting directions earlier in her night, like at McGradys. Or finding a bus stop. It's too strange. My HOPE is that LE knows more than they are letting us in on. Like more info from her texts, or from what she spoke to Mcgradys bouncer about.

On the DTMall, she does not seem lost to me, she looks, as others have said, determined with a destination.

If you watch the long version of the McGrady's video, she's lingers off camera to the right, after having walked around and peered in, then the bouncer at the end of the railing is facing her as she walks up, he seems to have noticed her when she's off camera. She seems to walk up to him and exchange words then, before she walks off again. Does that sound right to you?
 
If walking alone at 1 am is not considered out of the ordinary then we need to rethink (imo) what is ordinary. Anyone, males and females, but let's face it especially females, can't be out alone at that hour. If it's thought of as OK, then we need to change how we think of things. Someone posted a warning from a marshal about, "you can do anything alone safely....as long as you don't cross paths with the monster." I'm not in any way blaming Hannah. Obviously she felt safe. Or she was feeling safe at the onset or some point and then got confused or lost. NOT BLAMING HER. Just saying if the walkabout is a regular thing, it needs not to be a regular thing. That's sad; I know. Sad that folks can't walk around safely alone at 1 am, but they can't.

Agreed, completely.
 
Here's what I "know" and what I don't know. We see Hannah on video approaching (not arriving) McGrady's at 12:45. We see Hannah appear to leave the area of McGrady's. We see Hannah pass the gas station. We see Hannah in various locations on the DTM.

I don't know how Hannah traveled (by foot or vehicle) from the time she left the apartment at 11:50 until the time we see her approach McGrady's at 12:45 some 55 min later. I don't know what Hannah did or where she did it during the 55 min she is unaccounted for. I'm just trying to get it clear and the videos don't answer those questions. IMO

We don't exactly know what she was doing for those 55 minutes but it looks like she was likely walking around the whole time. Since she arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. in the opposite direction of the DTM this means that when she left the party the direction she had to have been walking in was towards the DTM and at one point or at multiple points she changed direction and headed towards Preston and she ended up on Preston and walks up Preston in the opposite direction of the DTM and arrives at McGrady's.
 
A lot of the questions we bring up on this sort of thread such as maybe she knew JM, was planning to meet him, was looking for a tryst, etc, etc, are ones that a good defense attorney would bring up had Hannah not been found, or if there is no evidence clinching that JM harmed her or was where she was found. Yes, she could have decided to go off with someone (maybe specifically JM), or whoever she could find that she fancied, and that whole Abduction with Intent to Defile charge can go right out the window because as anyone can see from comments, thoughts discussion here, it is indeed possible.
 
If she was walking that whole time, how is she drunk at McGradys? Because we know she was at the party for less than an hour ...unless they were drinking moonshine I just don't get it. Also, I doubt there was any drinking in the restaurant before that because they are underage and eating dinner. So she gets a window of 45 mins at the party to drink, then she makes her trek to McGradys? I have a feeling she stopped somewhere else, we just don't know where and what occurred.

Why do you think she partied for less than an hour? She started partying at like 9:30. She attended two parties very close to each other. She left the last party at 11:50. She had been partying for more than an hour.
 
Hi all. I just can't get beyond the fact that she was walking at that hour alone on a weekend (aka party, social time) night. That just stumps me like IDK what. Was there an argument? Not that anyone would admit to it now, but I have to wonder. It just doesn't make sense. This is so horribly sad, but all these cases get to me in some way or another and break my heart for these people and their families. I just cannot figure out the WHY was she there and the fact that no one has shed light on that. Perhaps someone has offered explanations and we are not privy to it. The white guy in the shadows still bothers me, but surely they have ID'd and cleared him. (?) Not saying that JM is not guilty; I'm just saying that the white dude gave me the serious chilly creeps on the video. Also, as mentioned, I'm also stumped as to why she didnt' reach out for help.... anywhere. There were people milling about. I'm just stumped.

Long time lurker who came out to post.
Hugs

I agree it's weird that she was out walking alone for seemingly such long stretches. I said earlier that it appeared she was party hopping alone and meeting up with different groups of friends at different times, but I think she intended to just hop from one to another, not spend a lot of time getting back and forth from place to place. I think most of what she had planned for the evening centered on the Corner area. My feeling is that she didn't intend to spend a lot of the evening alone, just short periods while she went from one closeby-location to another.

Longo, in an early press conference, said she went "to a couple of different places" before showing up on the McGrady video. Maybe the last time she was seen at one of the parties around where she lived was later than first reported and she really hadn't been wandering around alone for an hour by the first time we see her on surveillance video. Maybe it really was more like 20 minutes, allowing for some time to get disoriented and take a circuitous route walk to McGrady's, away from where she intended to be.
 

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