Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[mysterious minds]

BBM That struck me too, since Tempo made an official statement, and employees there talked to MSM. One would think LE would have wanted the LAST place where Hannah was seen (whether it was in there or right outside), would be the one more critical and that a gag request be put on them. I can't conceive of what info McGrady's could have given that would compromise the case against JM. Whatever she did there would have no impact that I could fathom on what happened later.

The Tempo statements are harmful, in that they tell us: 1)There is no evidence that JM gave Hannah anything to drink 2) That JM let Hanah alone while at the bar ordering drinks and she could have fled, left, asked for help if there is any iota of doubt that she did want to be with him 3)That Hannah was in bad enough condition at 1:40 AM that JM who was with her, pretty much had to help her. Had he taken her home or somewhere safe, he'd have been a Good Samaritan.

No statments were made of him acting like he was out to "get her", or that he made any such remarks, or that Hannah was being coerced.

Had there been no statements made, one could wonder if any of those things were the case.

All we know about Hannah's stop at McGrady's is that she did linger there, maybe looking for someone. Whether the only interaction between her and an employee there that she was asked if she was all iright, with her declining any asistance is the whole story, we don't know.

It could be that she did try to get in there, and was turned away due to lack of ID with the right age or any ID at all, and the place doesn't want any fall out for that. Doesn't look good to have turned away a woman who then gets picked up possibly by a serial rapist and killer. Tempo's statements make it clear that they want the world to know that Hannah was not in the restaruaunt, that no employee saw her in there, she did not try to come in there, and the only employee who saw her, saw her outside of the restaurant. And I wouldn't bet a dime she wasn't in there for all that vehemance; she likely was. Probably went through the side door the checker saw JM come out of and then "poof" there Hannah appeared right with him without coming through the same door.?

But we DO have first hand accounts of how obnoxious JM was acting at Tempo's with other patrons earlier in the night, especially the two females that he tried to cling on to. I believe he followed that group from another bar.
After their comments, I've thought that JM returned to the bar with HM to "show off" or prove to the rest of the crowd that he found a girl for the night. That definitely seemed his mission and it sounds like he was brushed off and told to "f- off" by others that night. HM was his way of saving face to the Tempo crowd.

 

[Skigirl]

BBM That struck me too, since Tempo made an official statement, and employees there talked to MSM. One would think LE would have wanted the LAST place where Hannah was seen (whether it was in there or right outside), would be the one more critical and that a gag request be put on them. I can't conceive of what info McGrady's could have given that would compromise the case against JM. Whatever she did there would have no impact that I could fathom on what happened later.

The Tempo statements are harmful, in that they tell us: 1)There is no evidence that JM gave Hannah anything to drink 2) That JM let Hanah alone while at the bar ordering drinks and she could have fled, left, asked for help if there is any iota of doubt that she did want to be with him 3)That Hannah was in bad enough condition at 1:40 AM that JM who was with her, pretty much had to help her. Had he taken her home or somewhere safe, he'd have been a Good Samaritan.

No statments were made of him acting like he was out to "get her", or that he made any such remarks, or that Hannah was being coerced.

Had there been no statements made, one could wonder if any of those things were the case.

All we know about Hannah's stop at McGrady's is that she did linger there, maybe looking for someone. Whether the only interaction between her and an employee there that she was asked if she was all iright, with her declining any asistance is the whole story, we don't know.

It could be that she did try to get in there, and was turned away due to lack of ID with the right age or any ID at all, and the place doesn't want any fall out for that. Doesn't look good to have turned away a woman who then gets picked up possibly by a serial rapist and killer. Tempo's statements make it clear that they want the world to know that Hannah was not in the restaruaunt, that no employee saw her in there, she did not try to come in there, and the only employee who saw her, saw her outside of the restaurant. And I wouldn't bet a dime she wasn't in there for all that vehemance; she likely was. Probably went through the side door the checker saw JM come out of and then "poof" there Hannah appeared right with him without coming through the same door.?

I think that the police probably did ask everyone -- including the people at Tempo -- not to talk to the media. However, I don't think there was any sort of legally-binding gag order. People are complying because it's the right thing to do.

I think Tempo felt pressure to make a statement because they felt their reputation was being hurt by the public perception that they could be responsible for getting an underaged minor drunk, which may have contributed to a subsequent rape and murder. So, they issued a statement correcting the record from their perspective, and gave some of their employees clearance to speak with the press. Whether what was said was true or various people fudging things a little to CYA, who knows. I doubt the owner even REALLY knows for sure what happened. He most likely wants to believe the story he's hearing from his staff, and his staff doesn't want to have anything to do with having been responsible for serving a minor.

McGrady's, on the other hand, has nothing to hid and nothing to defend. She is clearly seen outside the bar, is clearly seen talking to the doorman, and then is seen leaving. So, the owner of McGrady's didn't have to try to correct any record and probably requested that the staff comply with police requests for quiet. What we have learned has come from the police and, if I recall, one brief statement about the exchange between the doorman and HG ("just walking").

 

[Conductor71]

She wasn't going out to dinner. She was partying. It looked like she was kind of dressed up for a club. I do agree with you that she should have had a hoodie or something. A lot of guys seemed to be staring at her and it is likely due to the crop top.

Not only the crop top, but also because she is obviously a UVA student and that in and of itself is unusual to see on a weekend night. At least, according to many alum and people who still attend there.

 

[Conductor71]

I think that the police probably did ask everyone -- including the people at Tempo -- not to talk to the media. However, I don't think there was any sort of legally-binding gag order. People are complying because it's the right thing to do.

I think Tempo felt pressure to make a statement because they felt their reputation was being hurt by the public perception that they could be responsible for getting an underaged minor drunk, which may have contributed to a subsequent rape and murder. So, they issued a statement correcting the record from their perspective, and gave some of their employees clearance to speak with the press. Whether what was said was true or various people fudging things a little to CYA, who knows. I doubt the owner even REALLY knows for sure what happened. He most likely wants to believe the story he's hearing from his staff, and his staff doesn't want to have anything to do with having been responsible for serving a minor.

McGrady's, on the other hand, has nothing to hid and nothing to defend. She is clearly seen outside the bar, is clearly seen talking to the doorman, and then is seen leaving. So, the owner of McGrady's didn't have to try to correct any record and probably requested that the staff comply with police requests for quiet. What we have learned has come from the police and, if I recall, one brief statement about the exchange between the doorman and HG ("just walking").

I think that what will be more important is the record on JM's bill of what was purchased. I think they likely code it somehow to show what was purchased to track for business purposes, so there should be a way of knowing what kind of drink was purchased. I think many of us are assuming it was beer (or has that been proven some how?). If he was buying for her, it could have been water or a soda? We don't know, but I think it will matter more in the end what they were drinking rather than where. Plying her with more alcohol supports the defilement charge, but with something more benign, a toxicology report would be necessary, IMO.

 

[katinva]

But they said she wasnt even INSIDE Tempo so how would a drink be for her? Did we ever get a clear answer on if she was rejected at the door?

 

[Starliam]

She went to dinner before the party, in a restaurant called Figg.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

She went out to eat earlier with some friends I think around the Corner. She started going to party at 9:30. She went to apparently two parties very close to each other between 9:30-11:50

Wonder why she was alone in her in-between-party excursions? She left her apartment alone for the first party. According to reports, when she left that party, she ran into a classmate on the street, and she went to the second party with him. She left that one alone, and headed the wrong way? According to LE, her texts indicated she was planning on meeting up with friends for another party later that night. Party-hopping alone...

 

[Starliam]

Maybe the two parties were hosted by friends that were not friends with other people at the first party. She wanted to attend both of them, and so she left alone.
But do we know where the second party was?

 

[Paulap]

I do not mean to cast aspersions on this poor girl, but I have to admit that was my first thought -weeks and weeks ago- as well. I don't think that a lot of folks on here realize how common and normal it would be. People are like, "she was a smart girl, a kind girl, a good girl, she would not do drugs!" But smart, kind, good girls DO that sort of thing at that age. I don't know if her Twitter account is still up, but I recall a conversation she had with a male friend which pretty clearly insinuated she was too messed up the night before to remember what she'd done. Coulda been alcohol, sure, but even if so it speaks to her comfort level with partying. She was not a teetotaler. I think it's highly likely, and would explain a LOT (why she was at the mall, her appearance, etc) if she had been using drugs that night.

Again- I hope people understand I do not mean to be unkind. I have a college-age daughter, though, and I understand that the very best and brightest and kindest do that sort of thing at that age. I definitely think it's worth considering in the context of her journey that night.

many, many very good and decent kids do drugs... doesn't make it good but it often is a "rite of passage"...

 

[MJPeony]

Wonder why she was alone in her in-between-party excursions? She left her apartment alone for the first party. According to reports, when she left that party, she ran into a classmate on the street, and she went to the second party with him. She left that one alone, and headed the wrong way? According to LE, her texts indicated she was planning on meeting up with friends for another party later that night. Party-hopping alone...

Something I would never have wanted to do, but my college roommate did that a lot. She was an independent person in many ways, so just saying it is not entirely unusual.

 

[Paulap]

I went back there after years for a very quick visit with friends and a late bite at the mall on a week night. It wasn't easy navigating around town, kept circling around and wondering how we ended up in the same place. This isn't in retrospect or anything, more part of what made the Hannah Graham's disappearance real for me was that night we were there, where she was in the video. Going back to our car, it didn't feel at all safe, we had our guard really up. We had no knowledge of any of the missing young women. It was the first time I had felt any fear there, from childhood on revisiting the area, then later friends and family at UVA. Our children are growing up in world that is so much less safe, it really takes communities to come together and stay vigilant to counter ill-intended people. It's too easy to ignore until it effects you personally and too uncomfortable to deal with, but it seems more and more necessary. I'm not sure how though.

and that grady area is "shady" at best and VERY dark at night

 

[Paulap]

Thank you so much Jmm124567. On the map it just looks SO far, but when you break it down I guess it isn't. However, that nearly one hour that she is missing really bothers me. In the hallway video Hannah looks confident and put together. When she arrives at McGrady's 55 minutes later she looks disheveled, scared, paranoid, and worried. She appears to be in distress. To me she looks like something happened to her. IMO, someone knows and someone's not talking. I DO realize that whatever may or may not have happened during that period of time has no direct bearing on her abduction and murder, but that question clearly needs to be answered, IMO, because at least one person KNOWS the answer.

it's not that far to walk but what is unusual is that lone females walking toward the downtown mall at night is very unusual

 

[Paulap]

We don't exactly know what she was doing for those 55 minutes but it looks like she was likely walking around the whole time. Since she arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. in the opposite direction of the DTM this means that when she left the party the direction she had to have been walking in was towards the DTM and at one point or at multiple points she changed direction and headed towards Preston and she ended up on Preston and walks up Preston in the opposite direction of the DTM and arrives at McGrady's.

plenty of parties always ongoing on preston... maybe she stopped at one of those...

 

[Maxwell Smart]

lots of info in this youtube,
she texted where she was lost according to this police officer,
She left party she attended with a (he) and said she was going home and he asked her if she wanted him to take her back ,she said no and left.
Seems to be the norm for these students to walk anytime, anywhere (railroad tracks) as some students describe.
Link to watch and listen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5IW0-KJLOE

Wow... thanks for posting this. I guess I've never seen the full Shell Station video until now -- in the above link she runs one direction, stops, runs back, stops again and then runs back in the original direction. Every other shell station video I've seen only shows her running in one direction. This, to me, plus the McGrady's video shows pretty clearly that she is lost and looking for friends.

Because of McGrady's (peeking in windows) it looks to me like she was trying to find friends who were in a bar (as opposed to a house party). I think when she got to the downtown mall she was still looking for her friends in a bar. JLM comes up to her all friendly and says something like -- "I know all the bars on the Downtown Mall. I can help you find your friends... come with me..." Pure speculation, of course. But that might explain why she goes with him so readily. I don't think HG knew JLM and planned to meet him.

 

[CvilleMother]

and that grady area is "shady" at best and VERY dark at night

Depending on the racial and economic demographics of where you are from, Grady will appear more or less "shady".

It is a historically Black neighborhood, but as a long-time Charlottesville resident, I always felt safer along Grady as a 20-something than I did along fraternity row.

 

[Paulap]

It still feels off. That's a very long time to be wandering. A co-worker with a sophomore who attends UVA said that students rarely frequent the Downtown Mall, except for dinner and certainly not for late night. That's what her sophomore said, at least. If Hannah's phone battery was low, she might not use the GPS to figure out where she was. I still think her phone autocorrected "lmost" as in "almost" to "lost". And I am still shocked that not one friend has confided in another friend who told a third friend about what was said during the texts that night. No leaks. I guess that's good for trial.

more locals hang at the downtown mall

 

[Starliam]

Yes, and graduate students. Undergraduates usually prefers the Corner or party houses (fraternities, sororities or just apartment parties).

 

[AnnaGrace]

lots of info in this youtube,
she texted where she was lost according to this police officer,
She left party she attended with a (he) and said she was going home and he asked her if she wanted him to take her back ,she said no and left.
Seems to be the norm for these students to walk anytime, anywhere (railroad tracks) as some students describe.

Link to watch and listen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5IW0-KJLOE

Thank you Simlyme for posting this link. After watching this video, I definitely think she was lost. It looks like she's trying to find someone or something she recognizes. Also, notice how well she is getting from one place to the other. This confirms to me that she was drugged sometime after this and also after she arrived at the mall. She was still walking quickly and well then. So, if it's correct as reported by the Tempo employee outside that she was really drunk and could barely walk, then I think something was put in a drink that caused this. JMO. I think she was lost and scared and trying to find someone she knew. So, so heartbreaking.

 

[mainemom]

Wow... thanks for posting this. I guess I've never seen the full Shell Station video until now -- in the above link she runs one direction, stops, runs back, stops again and then runs back in the original direction. Every other shell station video I've seen only shows her running in one direction.

I'm pretty sure that's just the person who made that video rewinding it and playing it again. (You can see it's filmed off his computer screen and he's using a laser pointer to show someone something...) I don't think she actually turned around at the gas station.

 

[themom]

Thank you Simlyme for posting this link. After watching this video, I definitely think she was lost. It looks like she's trying to find someone or something she recognizes. Also, notice how well she is getting from one place to the other. This confirms to me that she was drugged sometime after this and also after she arrived at the mall. She was still walking quickly and well then. So, if it's correct as reported by the Tempo employee outside that she was really drunk and could barely walk, then I think something was put in a drink that caused this. JMO. I think she was lost and scared and trying to find someone she knew. So, so heartbreaking.

It's weird to me that she didn't ask the doorman/bouncer for directions to where she was trying to get to. Mcgradys would have been the perfect spot to STAY amd text friends asking for someone to either pick her up or meet her there, OR to ask the bouncer for directions either back home, to a bus stop, or to call a cab and wait there for it (assuming the cabbie isn't a serial killer). These are things I would have done at her age, unless I had a "mission" of my own.
I know hindsight is always 20/20, but HG did seem like a responsible and street wise person. Something seems DIFFERENT about how HG acted this night than she would have any other time.