Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[Evie Ivy Over]

BBM

Hmmm, there is record of her texting repeatedly to friends and more is mentioned than 14th and Wertland according to the Washington Post on September 19th.

Police detective James Mooney said that in her text messages to friends, Graham indicated that she was lost and disoriented, at one point saying she was on Main Street when she actually was on Preston Avenue.

Graham also indicated that she believed she was walking back toward her home when she was actually headed the opposite way, authorities said. She also texted friends asking for someone to come find her after she realized she was lost. She last texted friends at 1:06 a.m., about the time that the man in dreadlocks encountered her.

source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

LE published her route to McGrady's and onto the mall at one point saying she had taken 10th street. I have previously posted a MSM source with this info. Just because witnesses place her at the pub and the DM does not mean that there were no text records backing this IMO. Or maybe I am missing something that negates the above report?

I just don't know what to make of all those texts that are written about....

If she had been lost at some point in the night, I find it hard to believe she didn't know where she was when she got to McGrady's. Perhaps when she stopped there, she wrote the text that is reported in that article to say she was on her way back home. When she turned from Preston on to Grady Ave., she WAS headed towards her home--but for some reason, she turned around and headed back to Preston.

As far as Main St. vs. Preston Ave., I wonder how LE knew that? Did they base it on the locations pinned by way of videos? Because once HG entered the DTM, she WAS on Main St., and had been on Preston just minutes prior to then. So, how would LE come to the conclusion she didn't even know what street she was on?

Apparently, the time stamps on the videos at the DTM are incorrect in several instances, so it gets really hard to figure the exact sequence of events once she got there. I think some adjustments have been made after studying the videos, in particular Tuel's, Tempo, and there was an adjustment in the time of the last text.

In all honesty, with the conflicts in times and in content of the texts, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that HG's phone was lost earlier in the evening. If someone else was manipulating the texts, there is something bigger than JM involved in this picture, IMO.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

She was utterly lost. Her friends reported that she did not know the location well at all and had only lived there a week or so. She thought she was heading West toward her friends when she was actually on a clear path for the mall. I don't believe she necessarily knew that in walking but once she arrived there it would have been obvious.

The curious thing to me is that she asked her friends to rescue her (doubtful then IMO she would have sent friends a message to mislead them), so why did that never happen? I wonder if the mall was determined to be a meeting or rescue point? Makes sense as it would be considered a well lit, populated "safe" place to wait. Or not as it now would seem...

It's just mind-boggling that she wouldn't have called SafeRide to help her, or why one of her friends didn't make the call for her. As we know, she was very familiar with the program. Could it be that there wasn't a ride available when she needed it (due to lack of resources), and that she went to the DTM to wait for a ride? Was that why she was in such a hurry to get there? If HG or her friends had contacted SafeRide, LE would definitely know about that--why wouldn't they want to divulge that info?

Anyway, UVA reacted by beefing up the availability of SafeRide vans:

UVA increases safe ride program in wake of Hannah Graham’s disappearance
SEPTEMBER 24, 2014
http://wtvr.com/2014/09/24/uva-increases-safe-ride-program-in-wake-of-hannah-grahams-disappearance/

 

[Ollie]

Call me crazy but I still think maybe one of her friends texted her a number they had for a guy who was a taxi driver( he offers free rides);when he met her it seems she was accepting his arm,drink, and ride.Maybe that is why LE was aware of JM at the onset. Her friends would have had her back,helped her out of a situation,or so they thought;never realizing what the nice guy had in mind.

 

[MJPeony]

She was utterly lost. Her friends reported that she did not know the location well at all and had only lived there a week or so. She thought she was heading West toward her friends when she was actually on a clear path for the mall. I don't believe she necessarily knew that in walking but once she arrived there it would have been obvious.

The curious thing to me is that she asked her friends to rescue her (doubtful then IMO she would have sent friends a message to mislead them), so why did that never happen? I wonder if the mall was determined to be a meeting or rescue point? Makes sense as it would be considered a well lit, populated "safe" place to wait. Or not as it now would seem...

I'm not convinced she was utterly lost the entire time. Do you have somewhere I can read about the friends confirming she didn't know the area well b/c she'd only been there a week? I will believe it a little if I read it, but otherwise, that doesn't make much sense to me. First years would have been around 14th and Wertland before. That intersection is actually considered part of The Corner. Hugely popular bar/restaurant there (St. Maarten's), etc. etc. And that general area of 14th St., beginning at Wertland and up to Grady is a very well-known area to party. I would find it hard to believe that she got utterly lost, but- it's possible, sure.

I'm not disagreeing she wasn't lost at some point- I think that's been well backed-up by LE based on some things. I just don't think she was lost for a lengthy period of time. It's not that confusing of a place when you're a student and have hung out at The Corner multiple times before. The Corner is not a particularly hard place to find from the close surrounding streets if you got off track (IMO).

And the texts- I just don't think we have accurate enough info on to base anything off of those. LE has the accurate info. They know the exact times, they know if it seemed auto-corrected and the exact words, how many there were, what they all said, and they know ping information at this point (I would hope). We can't really get very far with the text info that we have b/c it is conflicting (which is super frustrating- I don't see why that info is hard to report on correctly). And it's very incomplete, as we know there were more.

Anyway, I maintain that I think she was lost at first- seemed turned around at McGrady's (and/or could have been looking for someone)- and then ended up heading to the DM for a specific reason- maybe after getting turned around for a bit, but heading there on purpose eventually. I think it's very possible she was actually lost TRYING to get to the DM. Now that's something I think would happen- an undergrad getting jumbled trying to walk to the DM. But not so much trying to get back to The Corner.

So why was she heading to DM?... don't know, but maybe to meet a specific person/friend, or even perhaps to get a ride from JM who her roommates called (yes, Ollie- we were posting at same time and I very much think this is possible), etc. She seemed far too confident of her stride IMO in those Sal's/Tuel's videos for me to think she was still utterly lost. And the reaction to JM upon meeting up with him (friendly, non-guarded) based on WG testimony adds a more purposeful element to her journey at that point. All MOO obviously. I have not filled in all the holes in my theory yet- just my general feel for the situation at this point.

 

[ILOKAL]

I'm not convinced she was utterly lost the entire time. Do you have somewhere I can read about the friends confirming she didn't know the area well b/c she'd only been there a week? I will believe it a little if I read it, but otherwise, that doesn't make much sense to me. First years would have been around 14th and Wertland before. That intersection is actually considered part of The Corner. Hugely popular bar/restaurant there (St. Maarten's), etc. etc. And that general area of 14th St., beginning at Wertland and up to Grady is a very well-known area to party. I would find it hard to believe that she got utterly lost, but- it's possible, sure.

I'm not disagreeing she wasn't lost at some point- I think that's been well backed-up by LE based on some things. I just don't think she was lost for a lengthy period of time. It's not that confusing of a place when you're a student and have hung out at The Corner multiple times before. The Corner is not a particularly hard place to find from the close surrounding streets if you got off track (IMO).

And the texts- I just don't think we have accurate enough info on to base anything off of those. LE has the accurate info. They know the exact times, they know if it seemed auto-corrected and the exact words, how many there were, what they all said, and they know ping information at this point (I would hope). We can't really get very far with the text info that we have b/c it is conflicting (which is super frustrating- I don't see why that info is hard to report on correctly). And it's very incomplete, as we know there were more.

Anyway, I maintain that I think she was lost at first- seemed turned around at McGrady's (and/or could have been looking for someone)- and then ended up heading to the DM for a specific reason- maybe after getting turned around for a bit, but heading there on purpose eventually. I think it's very possible she was actually lost TRYING to get to the DM. Now that's something I think would happen- an undergrad getting jumbled trying to walk to the DM. But not so much trying to get back to The Corner.

So why was she heading to DM?... don't know, but maybe to meet a specific person/friend, or even perhaps to get a ride from JM who her roommates called (yes, Ollie- we were posting at same time and I very much think this is possible), etc. She seemed far too confident of her stride IMO in those Sal's/Tuel's videos for me to think she was still utterly lost. And the reaction to JM upon meeting up with him (friendly, non-guarded) based on WG testimony adds a more purposeful element to her journey at that point. All MOO obviously. I have not filled in all the holes in my theory yet- just my general feel for the situation at this point.

If Hannah got turned around in the area of McGrady's and called her friends for help, and if those friends called a taxi driver friend (Jesse?), then why would they suggest Hannah walk a mile further, all the way to the DTM to meet the taxi? Why not tell her to have a seat on the grass by the well-lit McGrady's and wait? That just doesn't make sense to me. Anything that suggests she went from McGrady's to the Mall to meet a ride when she was lost doesn't sound reasonable. IMO. IMO Hannah went to the Mall deliberately for a particular reason, but it wasn't to meet up with a taxi.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Call me crazy but I still think maybe one of her friends texted her a number they had for a guy who was a taxi driver( he offers free rides);when he met her it seems she was accepting his arm,drink, and ride.Maybe that is why LE was aware of JM at the onset. Her friends would have had her back,helped her out of a situation,or so they thought;never realizing what the nice guy had in mind.

Hmmmm....that's an interesting concept.

But, if that's what happened, JM has to be a blithering idiot!!

 

[edrebber]

College towns are magnets for sexual predators. Even after the Morgan Harrington incident, we find women impaired by drugs and/or alcohol wondering around alone at night. Graham wasn't even old enough to drink.

 

[SassyFras]

Something about Hannah's phone and supposed last text has been bothering me and I just can't quite figure it it out:

If she did send the text re: 14th and Wertland at or around 1:06 am, why do we never see her phone in her hands in any of the CCTV footage on the DTM? I realize it could just be poor timing but it seems odd to me. Personally, if I've text that I'm lost and need someone to come find me, I'm going to have that phone in my hands at ALL times. Not to mention that neither a specific text mentioning being "lost" nor "almost" at 14th and Wertland would make any sense as she would have been on or within view of the DTM.

I believe someone mentioned earlier in one of the threads that they thought she might have lost her phone earlier and whomever found it text to say it was "lost" (recovered) at 14th and Wertland. That doesn't make sense to me for two reasons. One, if it was found I would think it would have been turned in to LE immediately. Especially after Hannah was reported missing. Also, and this applies to my last point as well, iphones have a lock screen that allows you to enable a 4 digit security pass code in order to utilize the phone. I cannot imagine a college aged girl with roommates would not have that function activated, thus making it impossible for someone other than herself to use the phone.

If we presume JM text from Hannah's phone, I would think the same theory applies with regards to the pass code and the phone's usability.

This whole case has been tragic and senseless, without question. For some bizarre reason, the phone and text issues are REALLY nagging at me.

Just some thoughts, and all MOO, sorry if it's a bit rambling.

 

[Conductor71]

I'm not convinced she was utterly lost the entire time. Do you have somewhere I can read about the friends confirming she didn't know the area well b/c she'd only been there a week? I will believe it a little if I read it, but otherwise, that doesn't make much sense to me. First years would have been around 14th and Wertland before. That intersection is actually considered part of The Corner. Hugely popular bar/restaurant there (St. Maarten's), etc. etc. And that general area of 14th St., beginning at Wertland and up to Grady is a very well-known area to party. I would find it hard to believe that she got utterly lost, but- it's possible, sure.

I'm not disagreeing she wasn't lost at some point- I think that's been well backed-up by LE based on some things. I just don't think she was lost for a lengthy period of time. It's not that confusing of a place when you're a student and have hung out at The Corner multiple times before. The Corner is not a particularly hard place to find from the close surrounding streets if you got off track (IMO).

Please see my above post #1235 for what LE has to say about her texts and being lost. They were able to know where she actually was based on where she thought she was and her friends state that the area she was in was confusing.

We may find it hard to believe she could not find her way, but given the area was new to her; she was drunk; and it was night, so I can see that as the most likely scenario. Keep in mind she got turned around heading East when she wanted to head West, and during the day you have the sun to guide you at minimum. I also had my own little theory of Privet Drive; that is the more your surroundings look the same, the easier it is to become and remain lost. Especially if you are in some sort of brain fog. She was surrounded by houses and apts plus street intersections that look vaguely all the same. It is like losing your car in a parking lot, looking for your seat in a dark theater, etc. IMO this is why she looks really out of it at McGrady's. Recall how she walks around the pub and stumbles; I think she is stunned that she is there and nowhere near any residences. At this point, I think she continues on to the mall and has a sense of purpose. I think maybe friends directed her there to maybe say we'll meet you or that it was far easier to get a bus or ride back from there, IMO.

It took me a long time to grasp that maybe she was just lost. I don't think that we have any supporting info that she was meeting someone, but I can see how we might want to believe that too. Depends on our experiences. I have been utterly lost a block from my home in a blizzard, and I have seen other people lose their sense of place when drunk. That is what convinced me.

 

[teeandcee]

I agree, Conductor. There is a restaurant I like near my house. You come to the road it's on and go right, but I can never remember that because the road looks the same both ways, filled with buildings and strip malls. I've lived here for years and years and I STILL get lost trying to get to this restaurant due to all those strip malls looking alike up and down each side of the road. I inevitably turn the wrong way and go for about a mile before I realize I'm going to wrong way. Every. single. time. And that's sober, in broad daylight, in an area I'm completely familiar with, safely in my car.

The only issue I have is her response to the bouncer at McGrady's that she was just walking. Maybe she just didn't want to reveal she was lost to a stranger or maybe she didn't consider herself lost yet. (unless that testimony is inaccurate....I haven't been keeping up lately).

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I agree, Conductor. There is a restaurant I like near my house. You come to the road it's on and go right, but I can never remember that because the road looks the same both ways, filled with buildings and strip malls. I've lived here for years and years and I STILL get lost trying to get to this restaurant due to all those strip malls looking alike up and down each side of the road. I inevitably turn the wrong way and go for about a mile before I realize I'm going to wrong way. Every. single. time. And that's sober, in broad daylight, in an area I'm completely familiar with, safely in my car.

The only issue I have is her response to the bouncer at McGrady's that she was just walking. Maybe she just didn't want to reveal she was lost to a stranger or maybe she didn't consider herself lost yet. (unless that testimony is inaccurate....I haven't been keeping up lately).

So, say she was lost--which could be a legitimate explanation. What doesn't make any sense, however, is why she didn't use the GPS to find her way, why she didn't reach out to multiple people to help her find her way, why she didn't ask someone at McGrady's to help her. Was she planning to wander around town all night long? If she knew she was lost, she had tools to resolve that.

As for McGrady's some have the theory that she was there before being seen on the video--there is a large block of missing time concerning her whereabouts prior to 12:45. And McGrady's seems to be on a gag order, so we don't know what she did or didn't say at the door. So perplexing! I'm starting to lean towards her phone going missing somewhere near McGrady's.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Off topic but can someone explain to me what a strip mall is (or the UK equivalent)? It's hampering my understanding of posts!

EDIT I googled it, is it like a retail park?

 

[cady]

Just a bunch of stores that are usually connected and share a parking lot on the side of a well-traveled street or highway. JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

So, say she was lost--which could be a legitimate explanation. What doesn't make any sense, however, is why she didn't use the GPS to find her way, why she didn't reach out to multiple people to help her find her way, why she didn't ask someone at McGrady's to help her. Was she planning to wander around town all night long? If she knew she was lost, she had tools to resolve that.

As for McGrady's some have the theory that she was there before being seen on the video--there is a large block of missing time concerning her whereabouts prior to 12:45. And McGrady's seems to be on a gag order, so we don't know what she did or didn't say at the door. So perplexing! I'm starting to lean towards her phone going missing somewhere near McGrady's.

See my post #1226, first post on Page 50. It explains my thoughts about Hannah having left/lost her phone or something else at McGrady's and then returning to look for it.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

(Didn't want to make this post on that thread, so as not to interject any negativity into the space devoted to who she was....)

It never comes up much about HG's affiliation with a sorority, but bringing this over from another thread, we see she did have that connection:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?257613-Who-is-Hannah-Graham&p=11160506#post11160506


In light of that, notice the statement from the Grahams on 09/16/14 doesn't mention them at all:

The university released a statement Tuesday from her parents, John and Susan Graham, and her brother James.

"Those of us who know and love Hannah know that she would not disappear without contacting family or friends. She is highly responsible and organized," the family said in a statement. "We express our sincere gratitude to law enforcement and everyone who is involved in the search for Hannah. We also thank the University for the full attention they are devoting to the situation. The kindness and support of so many - her friends at U.Va., particularly her friends on the Ski Team, her friends from high school, our neighbors, and the larger community - mean so much to us at this difficult time."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-...h-for-missing-university-of-virginia-student/

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

See my post #1226, first post on Page 50. It explains my thoughts about Hannah having left/lost her phone or something else at McGrady's and then returning to look for it.

Yes! I never thought of that possibility until you brought it up. I really think something happened at McGrady's--maybe losing her phone was part of that.

 

[ILOKAL]

Yes! I never thought of that possibility until you brought it up. I really think something happened at McGrady's--maybe losing her phone was part of that.

Well, it certainly would explain a few things like her approaching McGrady's from the other direction, which she would do if she was "returning" there for the second time, as well as her seeming angst and what appears like her stopping to look around in a couple of places. I also noticed from looking at a photo of McGrady's that the area where Hannah went off screen (which we can't see) is just a grassy area. If she was looking for something in that area, I can understand that may be why the three gentlemen and the bouncer were observing her. Also, if she DID lose something at McGrady's and upon returning she found it, that alone would probably put a pep in her step for the rest of her journey.

 

[Conductor71]

Well, it certainly would explain a few things like her approaching McGrady's from the other direction, which she would do if she was "returning" there for the second time, as well as her seeming angst and what appears like her stopping to look around in a couple of places. I also noticed from looking at a photo of McGrady's that the area where Hannah went off screen (which we can't see) is just a grassy area. If she was looking for something in that area, I can understand that may be why the three gentlemen and the bouncer were observing her. Also, if she DID lose something at McGrady's and upon returning she found it, that alone would probably put a pep in her step for the rest of her journey.

This also would explain why she might have tried to enter the pub. There is the statement by Longo that she "was denied entry".

 

[Bonacker]

I can't imagine she'd be denied entry a few minutes after having already patronized McGrady's, tho. Especially if she had just left and was only returning a few minutes later to retrieve a cell phone or something. (Only case I can imagine that happening would be if she was so drunk and disorderly that she was ejected from the pub and therefore barred from re-entry --- but that seems highly, highly unlikely, doesn't it?) Also, why would we have the evidence of the whole "Can I help you?"/"No, I'm just walking" exchange if she were returning to McGrady's only a few minutes after leaving. Right?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I can't imagine she'd be denied entry a few minutes after having already patronized McGrady's, tho. Especially if she had just left and was only returning a few minutes later to retrieve a cell phone or something. (Only case I can imagine that happening would be if she was so drunk and disorderly that she was ejected from the pub and therefore barred from re-entry --- but that seems highly, highly unlikely, doesn't it?) Also, why would we have the evidence of the whole "Can I help you?"/"No, I'm just walking" exchange if she were returning to McGrady's only a few minutes after leaving. Right?

Originally, they said she was denied entry...then they reported the "just walking" exchange. On the video, there really wasn't much time for a lot conversation at the door--she walked up, said a few words, then left. But maybe there was something that happened earlier? Not sure if you saw the previous discussion about the questions surrounding McGrady's...LE said dogs picked up HG's trail at McGrady's but they didn't want to go into details about what they found, and McGrady's was asked by LE not to make any statements/comments about what went on when she stopped there. Also, it appears that something happened during the video...when she walked out of view, the guys at the table obviously heard something that jolted their attention to that area, and then she stumbled around the corner and went up to the door.

I don't know...was she there earlier with her friends, then decided she was going to do a solo party (the way she did earlier in the evening)? Realized she left her phone there, returned and the friends were gone? She may have asked if they were still there, was told no, and figured they had picked up her phone?

Maybe the hush-hush has something to do with serving underage students on a regular basis....